Raise in A1C w/o animal products and dairy

[dianeb1944]

I just got some recent blood tests back and my A1C has gone from 5.8 (when I was a carnivore) to 6.1 (after 6 months of no diary and no animal products) which throws me into the diabetic range and of course, the lab flagged it as High. Also the fasting was as high as when I was a carnivore - 114. Not very good. I have been eating no animal procuts or dairy for the past 8 months. While I have not had animal products or dairy , I have to admit that I have not been the most careful about free oils because we eat out lunch almost daily. When I cook at home, I never use oils. Even though I have questioned the managers of the restaurants we frequent re their preparation and they assure me that the items we order have no animal products and dairy, I guess cannot be assured that there is no oil as well or what kind of oil it might be? I do ask the Thai and asian rests to really limit the use of oils and sugars in their cooking. Could the oil (that I know most restaurants use liberally) be the reason the blood sugar is not coming under the good control like I thought it would? I was very disappointed. Also my total CHol was 170 and I was disappointed that it was not much lower....I have been taking Vytorin-10 mg every other day because I dont want to take it but my cardio says I must......So, I did agree to one every other day and still 170 total chol. All the other levels were quite good, the HDL was 68, the Triglycerides were 71 and the LDL was 88. I thought the LDL was a little high for eating no animal and dairy. Will free oil cause the LDL to raise as well? I am just not convinced that the little bit of oil I may be getting at lunch could wreck all of this when I have cut out the big culprits (I thought anyway), the dairy and animal products.... Jeff. please comment and others as well. Diane

[serenity]

When I saw your subject heading, the first thing I wondered was about fats and oils. They can cause insulin resistance.

Re the cholesterol: I saw on another thread that you might have thryroid issues. My understanding is that this can cause increased #s.

Good that you are going to the 10 day soon. I'm sure Dr. McDougall will work this out with you. Have fun!!!

[Adrienne]

Hi Diane

You have gotta watch out for the oil. Instead of asking restaurants to limit oil, ask for food that is prepared without any oil at all.

[JeffN]

I just got some recent blood tests back and my A1C has gone from 5.8 (when I was a carnivore) to 6.1 (after 6 months of no diary and no animal products) which throws me into the diabetic range and of course, the lab flagged it as High. Also the fasting was as high as when I was a carnivore - 114. Not very good. I have been eating no animal procuts or dairy for the past 8 months. While I have not had animal products or dairy , I have to admit that I have not been the most careful about free oils because we eat out lunch almost daily. When I cook at home, I never use oils. Even though I have questioned the managers of the restaurants we frequent re their preparation and they assure me that the items we order have no animal products and dairy, I guess cannot be assured that there is no oil as well or what kind of oil it might be? I do ask the Thai and asian rests to really limit the use of oils and sugars in their cooking. Could the oil (that I know most restaurants use liberally) be the reason the blood sugar is not coming under the good control like I thought it would? I was very disappointed. Also my total CHol was 170 and I was disappointed that it was not much lower....I have been taking Vytorin-10 mg every other day because I dont want to take it but my cardio says I must......So, I did agree to one every other day and still 170 total chol. All the other levels were quite good, the HDL was 68, the Triglycerides were 71 and the LDL was 88. I thought the LDL was a little high for eating no animal and dairy. Will free oil cause the LDL to raise as well? I am just not convinced that the little bit of oil I may be getting at lunch could wreck all of this when I have cut out the big culprits (I thought anyway), the dairy and animal products.... Jeff. please comment and others as well. Diane

Hi Diane

While eliminating animal products and dairy is a great positive change, in and of itself, it may not be enough. Remember, veganism does not automatically equate to a healthy diet. Veganism only really tells what someone has stopped doing and not what they are doing. Sometimes, what matters most is what you include and are doing, and not what you exclude and are not doing

In regard to blood sugar, there are many factors that matter which include activity levels, body weight, percent body fat, belly fat, fiber, refined processed carbs/grains, refined/processed sugars/sweeteners, amount of fat, etc

Unfortunately, you can not trust most restaurant food or what they say about it, unless you really have a relationship with the restaurant and their management and really know what they are doing. Part of this is because they really don't know either. Many restaurants do not weigh and measure every ingredient and their definition of a "little" oil or fat, may be way different than yours or mine. So is their definition of "healthy" and mine. I actually had the chef of a restaurant tell me not to worry about the "little" oil they use, because they only use the oil that has no fat.

Personally, I think the best approach for those who need (or want) to see the most significant changes in as short a time as possible, should follow the MWL program. You can read my rationale here.

http://www.drmcdougall.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=6969

Not only will you see your blood sugar and A1c numbers improve, you will also see your other lipid numbers improve as well. However, as you may read in the forum, say may take a little longer than others to respond, but if they stick to the principles over time, they will see positive results.

Therefore, the two most important things to keep in mind are...

1) Vegan does not equate to healthy. Healthy equates to healthy. I am a health advocate not a vegan advocate. They are not one and the same.

2) The two most important points in success are "adherence" and "time."

In Health
Jeff

[karin_kiwi]

Jeff, can you point me in the direction of that oil that has no fat? That sounds like exactly what I need!!!!

JK, of course.

I've had a chef tell me that yoghurt isn't dairy.

[JeffN]

Jeff, can you point me in the direction of that oil that has no fat? That sounds like exactly what I need!!!!

JK, of course.

I've had a chef tell me that yoghurt isn't dairy.

I think if we all sat around we could come up with literally 100s if not 1000s of these that we have encountered. I am sure these people are well meaning and well intentioned, they just dont know what they know is wrong.

When the person said that, I was with a friend, and the friend looked at them and said, "you have no idea to who you just said that to",

...to which I just nudged my friend and said, "Lets go, we are late"

In Health
Jeff

[Joe927]

Jeff, can you point me in the direction of that oil that has no fat? That sounds like exactly what I need!!!!

JK, of course.

I've had a chef tell me that yoghurt isn't dairy.

Motor oil?

[dianeb1944]

Thanks for the support and information re the insulin and A1C jump.... I knew what you were going to say to me....and that was to quit eating out and cook my own meals so I can control the zero fats. Something I don't want to hear obviously....because a little fat tastes to da-- good! I know I am approaching that because I have enrolled in the 10 day program for Oct. with Dr. McDougalls and I know that will be zero added fats. I just returned from Costa Rica with him..

However, to make matters worse, I just visited my Cardiologist (after I had the blood test) for my yearly echocardiogram for my leaky heart valve. Although the Echo showed that the leak has not progressed much from last year, I did tell my Cardio that I had stopped the Norvasc and he wanted to know why....when I told him that "it was a dangerous drug," he flipped....(This is some info that Dr. McDougall told me in Costa Rica).....and he doesn't prescribe Norvasc...Then, when I told my Cardio, I wanted to change from Vytorin to Pravachol, he asked why again and when I told him, that "Vytorin was also a dangerous drug...look at the recent studies that it thickens the arteries and causes worse heart problems," he was NOT HAPPY at all. He basically called me "Dr. Diane," and asked why I came all this way to be treated by him when I didn't follow his advice??? He wanted to know "who this Dr. McDougall was," and said he wanted him to call and debate Norvasc with him because it was a wonderfully safe drug.and he basically said that Dr. McDougall must not read the studies and literature....Ha!! He also was furious that I was following the vegan diet because he said it "was not the healthiest of diets as he was east Indian and their diet was vegan and very unhealthy." He said I should be eating some "good fish," and chicken every week.....I was speechless....I asked him why I should subject myself to chol and sat fat when I could gain omega 3's from putting one tbsp of flax meal over my oatmeal in the morning, but he wasn't hearing any of it.......I basically left his office with my tail between my legs and feeling like a kid whose father had just spanked her. I know...you will ask why I stay with him and why I just don't find another Cardio?......Easier said than done. He does take good preventive care of me in regard to giving me tests. And that is important because I do have a serious heart valve leak and the aorta is dialated about 4.2 centimeters. 5.5 means a valve replacement. He does keep a close watch on the progression and that is important to me.....I am not sure I will find that with another doctor. So, at least in the area of frequent Echo tesing, I feel that I am in good hands. I just don't know how to get past the drug and the diet issue with him. He did write me a prescription (reluctantly) for Pravachol instead of the Vytorin, but told me to go back on the Norvasc because my bp was high when he took it. No wonder it was high after all that discussion?? The problem with a leaky heart valve is that I don't think any diet in the world will ever allow the blood pressure to be normal, so I do need drugs for it which I already take Captropril and Atenolol. I just didn't want the Norvasc as well. I am really preplexed and not sure what is correct for me to do......Thanks for letting me vent....

[dianeb1944]

geoffreylevens, thanks for the wonderful encouragement. I suspected that with the leaky heart valve, that the bp would not be possible to return to normal. I guess that is an interesting question that I will be able to explore. Did you go to the 10 day? We did go to Costa Rica and ate the McDougall diet for 6 or 7 days, but maybe that is not the same as what I will experience at the 10 day live in.....I am looking forward to the experience. Thanks for all the help for all of you. This is a great board and a nice group of folks.

[Zena]

Diane,

I'm sorry to hear your Cardio wasn't more supportive of your decisions and that you walked away from the checkup feeling badly But I'm so excited and happy for you that your 10-day program is just around the corner!!! As Geoffrey wrote, don't write off the possibility of being able to eliminate your BP meds with strict adherence to the program. I've been to both the 10-day program (more than once) as well as the Costa Rica trip. Though both experiences are wonderful and amazing in their own ways, there is a definite difference between them and what you'll experience. The Costa Rica trip is set up as a vacation but the 10-day program, while still a vacation of sorts, is much more of a medical program.

During my first 10-day program, I was able to get off all my meds including 2 different BP drugs. My first BP reading, while still on the meds, was 155/95. Dr. McDougall took me off of everything the first day. By the end of the program, it was down to 122/82 and continued to come down after I left. A few months later at my doctor's appt, it was down to 105/70. Of course, everyone's issues are different and I didn't have your problem of a leaky heart valve. But be confident that where ever your health is right now, you'll see improvements during the program that may not seem possible right now.

The other wonderful thing about doing the 10-day program is that Dr. McDougall will now be your doctor. And if it's necessary for him to speak to your Cardio about your case, he will. After you get back home, you'll receive a letter from Dr. McDougall that will explain what happened while you at the program, your results, changes he made in meds and why, etc. You can give a copy of this letter to your Cardio or any other doctor for their files and it will explain to them what they need to know.

Let us all know about your experience when you get back!

[dianeb1944]

Thank you....You give me so much hope...I am getting excited about going now. I hope to see the same good results. Diane