Too Many Vegans Getting Cancer

[Matcha]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tzm17Sq0ibE

Veg source did it again. i was bothered by this and I wonder.

[barryoilbegone]

Yep, I saw this as well. It probably suggests again that 'vegan' in itself doesn't necessarily mean a healthy diet and regime, lifelong. It can still mean processed foods, refined sugar, oil etc, and is often off the basis of eating poorly for many years beforehand.

The likes of Jessica Krock, whom some people will know here, and is a wonderful lady, also was diagnosed with cancer recently: and been undergoing treatment. She's been transparent about sometimes falling off the WFPB wagon on their YT channel, and the many years of eating junk and animal foods routinely beforehand she wonders may have contributed, before the last few years as vegan. I can definitely relate to that.

Even for those of us for WFPB, it can be tough. I can say I'm not necessarily always as careful as I would like to be on oil especially lately. Given times are tough on food prices and other things now, that there is drastically discounted price to sale hummus for the fridge has been something I've struggled with at times not buying, or other drastically discounted vegan processed foods at times. I don't cook with any oil, and I do best to avoid it eating out, but I realise those are still not great too for things like cancer risk.

I live for hope for the day that organic WFPB is the norm in our society, from the beginning - maybe a pipedream, but still a dream. That might see the end one day of many cancers... but we're still a way from that I guess.

[michaelswarm]

My first reaction was ignore, as there are many fat vegans. But this was about WFPB vegans. Reports an anecdotal 20x increase in cancer among WFPB vegans in last year.

Here's my analysis of the data and the argument.

1. Is it true?
2. What causes?
- Compliance
- DHA Supplements
- Covid shots

I think the first two causes are straw man arguments. They didn't change dramatically in the last 2 years. Of course, any individual case is result of multiple factors. But only Covid shots changed in last 2 years. The oncologist's letter was not specific to vegans. He was reporting a cancer spike among omnivores, including his fellow oncologists.

3. What about?
- Increase in WFPB vegan influencers?

I can't find any increase in cancer mortality world wide up to 2021 data. Some countries up a bit, others down a bit. After thinking about it some more, my guess is an increase in WFPB vegan influencers.

[dleviton]

Is any mechanism proposed by which covid vaccines could spike cancer occurrences?

[VegSeekingFit]

Hi,

I watched this --- I guess along with 30+K others...

I am saddened for the folks who have been impacted by cancer... (and amazed by some of the comments on the actual YouTube)...

However, ... not anything I find here to be worried about or change approach...

Anecdotal video --- I am sure well meant, but not sure what to take away from it. Correlation doesn't mean causation and... counting / frequency of cancer occurrence in a population... how does that work in this? Would be important. I'll give completely strange example --- hoping all have heard about the 6 degrees of Kevin Bacon... I have a friend who fits that... (totally!! I bet I could get a guy off the street that she's connected to in some way.... but in the whole scheme of things, it means nothing)...

Maybe that is just me... (and I am totally not looking for something to worry about until it is a known / proven by science worry...)

However, I do not change views on these things: McD is the best way to eat, we are none of us bullet-proof, there are other causes for disease than diet.... etc.

McD has resources on main page on cancer development. Here is his Steve Jobs talk ... discussing time it takes for disease to be detectable... https://www.drmcdougall.com/education/m ... -jobs-die/

If there is a scientific study on "the product", then I will be interested to see it. Until then...

Best,
Stephanie

[pundit999]

It is not useful to just concentrate on some well known vegans getting cancer.
It does not allow us to conclude anything. There are just too many variables.

In any case , cancers of different types or organs are very different from one another.
Strong evidence exists that wfpb diet protects against colon cancer. May be also against a few other cancers.

Also as others have pointed out : cancer starts a decade or more before it is detected in most cases . You need to study lifelong wfpb people to really conclude anything .

There are huge numbers (100s of millions ) vegetarians in India . Until a few years ago and before them adopting the sad diet, cancer rates in India were 40 times less than those in western countries (dr Greger is the source of this info)

Another link:
https://www.mskcc.org/news/research-shows-plant-based-diets-are-better-ketogenic-diets-cancer-risk-and-long-term-health

[QubitBob]

It is not useful to just concentrate on some well known vegans getting cancer.
It does not allow us to conclude anything. There are just too many variables.

Exactly. We have to start thinking like scientists. Just because some of Jeff Nelson's acquaintances have developed cancer doesn't mean a WFPB diet isn't a healthy diet. As pundit999 states, "there are too many variables."

Again and again, I keep coming back to the lessons of the Blue Zones. Those who live the longest, healthiest lives all share a number of dietary and lifestyle patterns. At the core is a (largely) whole-food, plant-based diet. The more one follows those patterns, the more one stacks the deck in one's favor that one will enjoy a long and healthy life. But these are long-term probabilities over a large sample size. You will never know at the individual level if the fact that someone falls ill is due to genetics, lack of adherence to the plan, or just plain old bad luck.

And, I want to make one other point. Even if it turns out that a WFPB diet doesn't offer huge protection against cancer, the fact that it is so successful in preventing so many of the other illnesses plaguing Western countries like cardiovascular disease and autoimmune disorders is still enough for me to follow the McDougall diet.

[michaelswarm]

I can add that a good friend of my wife just had his stable cancer return last year. He is vaxed and boosted. Appears to me that WFPB is best diet to prevent cancer and many other diseases. But all that can be ruined with reckless medication or procedures.

It's been over fifteen years since my previous girlfriend passed away of stage 4 cervical cancer. 2 years WFPB after diagnosis. Since her death, world wide another 75 million have also died of cancer. Despite information on reasonable prevention being available in most public libraries. It seems crazy that most people just don't care, until it is too late.

[Sandy Sue]

Diet is not a magic bullet. Some cancers are due to heredity. Some are caused by environmental toxins. I live in an area with high radon concentrations. Radon is the second most common cause of lung cancer. When I bought a house this year the home inspector tested for radon and discovered radon in the basement over the EPA allowed limit. I had to have radon mitigation before I could move in. There are many other environmental factors which can cause cancer. Some vegans eat a lot of processed foods which contain harmful substances. I don't expect a plant based diet, much less a vegan diet which includes processed food to cure cancer that is caused by an inherited gene or by some environmental cause.

[dinska]

I don't care for responses like 'The McDougall Diet isn't a magic bullet', because for most things it's the closest thing we have to it. I think diminishing the power it has is very negative and somewhat dangerous because it will let people zone out and go back to bad habits.

That said there are different types of cancers that a WFPB diet would not be as effective with. Check out this McDougall NL, "Why Did Steve Jobs Die?"

https://www.drmcdougall.com/misc/2011nl/nov/jobs.htm

It's been over fifteen years since my previous girlfriend passed away of stage 4 cervical cancer. 2 years WFPB after diagnosis. Since her death, world wide another 75 million have also died of cancer. Despite information on reasonable prevention being available in most public libraries. It seems crazy that most people just don't care, until it is too late.

Around a year after I started McDougalling -- roughly ten years ago -- my closest friend and I were talking about my health improvements (I have a lot of chronic conditions related to inflammatory issues - which The McDougall Diet greatly reduced.) She just asked me, "where's the science behind it?" I gave her a copy of The McDougall Program: 12 Days to Dynamic Health, the one with the blue cover. She continued eating animal products, a lot of processed meats, and dairy. Three years ago she was diagnosed with cancer (in her 40's) and she passed away last month. I have seen in other threads people talking about how hard it is to get people they care about to change their diets. It's a shame. Considering my friend was diagnosed young, there may have been other causes but she was obese.

[A Balloon A Balloon]

We are all going to know people who have cancer, and some of us will also get cancer ourselves. The more interest we have in veganism, and for longer time, we are naturally going to hear about more instances of vegans getting cancer (as part of being alive for longer we'll hear about more cancer cases, and now we know more vegans or/and look for information on vegans more). This doesn't mean that there's a higher prevalence among vegans. I think the good evidence is in the opposite direction. But of course we aren't immune, even those who eat a very healthy diet - we are just (significantly) reducing our risk.

[MINNIE]

Speaking only for myself, I am totally not worrying about this. Or any sensational story from the internet.

I am 76, had a long history of bad eating even while vegan, substance abuse before I got sober, living near polluted industrial sites, and a nuclear facility....etc. So far, I don't have (or at least don't know that I have) any form of cancer. I could attribute that to living near industrial pollution and say that proves it prevents cancer .

Or, I could say that I have no close relatives who have had cancer, and therefore I have lucky genes.

Or, I could say that my 10 years of adherence to the McDougall diet has saved me from cancer.

Or I could accurately say that I absolutely do not know. Maybe I will be diagnosed with cancer at some point. So I take reasonable precautions to reduce my risk, and hope for the best.

But, again only speaking for myself, being a no-oil vegan/starchivore has given me so many health benefits, and so much improvement in my general quality of life, that I really can't consider living any other way.