I need advice on blood sugar issue.

[xButterflyx]

I finished my first week McDougall style! Oh my gosh! 5 lbs down in one week and so many little successes! I'll post them in my journal shorty.

But one thing has been scaring me this past week. My blood sugar numbers. But they may not be bad at all. I just don't know what numbers are good and bad. (I haven't had the best doctors at all. No ones really explained a lot about diabetes to me, the good bad or what the numbers should or shouldn't be like ...) And I'm in fear that they've been too high this week and staying at the high levels too long each time.

Two hours after meals this past week they've been anywhere from a 150 to 180 and they go down very slowly after that. One even got to a 201. On the lchf diet they never got up above 125 two hours after eating.

My question is - are these numbers too high? Is it dangerous to have them this high continually through the day? Are they going to cause damage? It's making me want to eat only veggies for the next month till the numbers come down and then work in the starches...I won't do that, but I'm darn tempted. Do I just push through and not worry about the numbers and let them do what they may?

Do I continue eating full servings of potatoes, pasta, etc with veggies even tho my blood sugar is elevated that much? I've worked myself down (this morning) to where I'm barely eating enough to keep a bird alive, all because I'm so scared about these dam numbers. It's awful.

I had 1 corn thin with 1/4 cup of quinoa pasta on it with a few seasonings and I'm famished. Hubby is out shopping for more veggies and my junk food eating son is asleep. I'm sitting here alone and I feel like I want to go raid my sons cabinet and scarf down all his chips and whatever else he might be hoarding in there. I won't do that, but I'm starving.

I do realize that I am most likely over reacting but I really need some advice so I stay on plan. I want to be able to work the plan like everyone else. Eat until I'm full. Eat whatever I want. etc etc. I feel like I'm getting obsessed with my sugar numbers and losing sight of how this W.O.E. really works. I'm losing sight of the goal. I've been through my first successful week and instead of celebrating and being on cloud 9, all I can think about is this dam diabetes and what harm it may be doing in my body going through this first month of this W.O.E. Am I crazy??

Please talk to me.

[colonyofcells]

Instead of reducing starch, can try exercising before and or after each meal. Some offices can now provide standing work places if requested. Dr Greger walks in front of his home computer. At home, I don't use chairs anymore.
To have less stress about blood sugar levels, can try testing the blood sugar only weekly. Can give the Starch Solution more time to work. Instead of channelling my energy into feeling stressful, I just channel my energy into frequent exercise. I have a cheap door frame pull up bar ($15 from Ross) at home so I don't need to go to a gym. At home, I move my arms all the time as constant exercise.
http://chicwolf.typepad.com/.a/6a0120a7 ... 970c-500wi
2 hours after meal 150 to 180 is close to normal.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Postprandial_glucose_test
Another way to reduce stress about blood sugar levels is to test once a month hba1c instead of micro managing every day every meal all of the food items.
The way Starch Solution manages type 2 diabetes is different from the mainstream so it all depends on who you trust more. I managed my mother's diabetes using mainstream teachings which I now regret. Just following the simple rule of not eating refined foods and processed foods is enough to help most diabetics. The Starch Solution is a much better way of managing diabetes and does not require micro management of blood sugar levels. Starch Solution is a vegan solution and requires vitamin b12 supplements.
Just eat mostly unrefined starch foods for fuel and drink plenty of water to help the fiber fill up the stomach and avoid hunger. The body needs fuel every day to function whether diabetic or not. Remaining with starch fuel instead of fat fuel will probably result in better health in the long term which is easily missed if micro managing the blood sugar levels every day. Unrefined starch fuel usually has more micronutrients than unrefined fat fuel. My guess is most people are better adapted to high starch diet rather than high fat diet.
Many diabetics promote the eating by the blood sugar meter method which usually leads to high fat diets and are misled by the instant results.

[grid]

Hi Lisa,

I have no experience with diabetes, so I'm not the one who knows the trick, but I'd like to encourage you to follow the plan. First of all, don't worry about the numbers right now, eat something compliant food if you're hungry, otherwise you'll get panic and you'll eat anything you find. Moreover, if you're in panic, you can't think, but you have to think clearly if you want to solve a crisis, right?

The other thing I wanted to share with you is that none of us eats the same way we did when we started this plan. Some of us eat differently, because they found how convenient eating simply, others eat differently, because they found out some food sensitivity and others because of other health reasons. It means, all of us started to eat compliant foods then we found some problem (health or other kind) and we had to adapt our meal plan to free ourselves from that problem. So it's not exactly true that you eat what you want. Mostly your body and your goal dictate what you can eat and what you should avoid.

You're not different. You started to heal your body by adapting a food plan that is way healthier than any of your previous ones, but you've found a problem, so it's time to tweak your diet. There are a lot of fellow McDougallers here who live without the symptoms of diabetes (there are debates about if it's cured or silent diabetes ), so I'm sure they will help you in this route.

My other thought is (hope someone corrects me if I'm wrong), that you should reduce the ground up starches and prefer the whole ones (whole grains, whole starchy veggies, etc.). It means you should skip all the pastas you eat recently and sub. it with whole grains, potato or sweet potato. Some with type 2 diabetes can't even tolerate potato, so don't be surprised, if you find others than pasta to be a culprit. You just have to eat your starch, observe the reaction of your body and skip those starches that are not suitable for you. It might change with time, so don't worry about it here and now, just swim with the flow and keep on enjoying the great successes you reach each day.

Hope others with type 2 diabetes will tell you smarter things too...

[Martin14626]

From what I understand, your level will be up after you eat, no matter what. Try only taking your sugar level first thing in the morning before you eat. That's what I've been doing since the start of this week when I was told my fasting level was 172. Four days after starting this woe its 119. Good luck!

[vgpedlr]

One week isn't very long, and those numbers aren't going to kill you. It's good to keep an eye on them, as well as a food diary to see if certain foods work better than others. You may want to follow the Maximum Weight Loss guidelines and lose items like corn thins in favor of unrefined starches. Colony's advice about exercise is great, even a short walk before and/or after meals is great at signaling the body to do something with that glucose, rather than circulate it around.

Neal Barnard has a great book specifically about diabetes that is compatible with McDougall:
http://www.amazon.com/Neal-Barnards-Program-Reversing-Diabetes/dp/1594868107/ref=sr_1_1s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1439568462&sr=1-1&keywords=neal+barnard

Whatever you do not starve yourself! A binge is inevitable, everybody breaks sometime.

[colonyofcells]

Based on the latest picture book Starch Solution, it says eat plenty of whole grain breads and whole grain pasta so whole grain flours are allowed. My suggestion is to drink lots of water or use lots of soups bec fiber needs lots of water expand and fill up the stomach. All tubers are allowed for diabetics including potato. I tend to boil all my food together and I drink all the water used for boiling. I dip whole grain breads in bean soup. Can cook pasta as soups for more water. I cook corn tortillas as soups also. My favorite whole grain breads are the trader joe's pain pauline (a sourdough bread) and the alvarado st bakery california style complete protein bread (rebranded at trader joe's as california style bread). The complete protein bread includes a small amount of lentils and soy for more protein. In california, it is easy to find the whole grain breads of Beckmann's bakery :
http://www.beckmannsbakery.com/shop/flavor/whole-wheat
The healthy 1950s mediterranean crete island diet was mostly whole grain sourdough barley bread. The mainstream promotes the mediterranean diet which is mostly whole grain bread and whole grain pasta (but the mainstream tends to promote more fat for diabetics via counting carbs). The 1949 okinawa diet was mostly sweet potato. The mainstream diabetes teachings of counting carbs (which is probably essential only for type 1 diabetics) tends to lead to less healthy high fat diets.

[grid]

Based on the latest picture book Starch Solution, it says eat plenty of whole grain breads and whole grain pasta so whole grain flours are allowed. My suggestion is to drink lots of water or use lots of soups bec fiber needs lots of water to work. All tubers are allowed for diabetics including potato.

I'm not talking about allowance. I read in these forums that some ppl with diabetes have problems with flour products, others have problems with potato, while some have problems with both. I just wanted to pointed to those experiences of others. Everyone is different so these are really just tips for her. Since I have no diabetes, all I can do is telling her what others shared on these boards and waiting for fellow McDougallers who has experience helping her out with proper, much more relevant information than I could ever share.

[colonyofcells]

I think the Maximum Weight Loss rules of avoiding whole grain flours was created mainly for some people who are in a hurry to lose weight. To me, maximum weight loss rules sounds more like a temporary measure rather than a permanent lifestyle altho there are probably some people who are doing maximum weight loss rules permanently for whatever reasons. Starch Solution should help most diabetics without the need to try the more restrictive Maximum Weight Loss rules. I admire the traditional diets and I don't really view avoiding whole grain breads and avoiding whole grain flours as desirable unless really really needed. Everyone should try the regular Starch Solution first before adding more restrictive rules. Increasing exercise will probably have a better chance of increasing longevity, rather than adding more and more restrictive food rules. Copying traditional lifestyles for longevity probably includes plenty of exercise, social support, lots of close friends, etc. and these will probably work better than adding more and more restrictive food rules to an already healthy diet such as the regular Starch Solution. We want to live longer and not just to control blood sugar and not just to reach a healthy weight. Regular Starch Solution is about eating healthy (with some easy exercises like walking) rather than just about weight loss or the rapid weight loss that some desire.
Lots of mainstream advice on prediabetes and diabetes is compatible with the Starch Solution :
http://www.professional.diabetes.org/ad ... guidelines
http://www.cdc.gov/diabetes/prevention/ ... iculum.htm
If the daily meal details are given, we can review the meals if they are compliant with the Starch Solution. The Starch Solution won't work if not eating enough and feeling hungry all the time. I just eat till I am full. Being afraid of starch will result in not eating enough and feeling hungry. It is common for diabetics to react by reducing food, not eating enough and feeling hungry often. Be afraid of junk food but there is no need to be afraid of unrefined starch foods which the body needs for fuel. Just eat more potato and whole grain pasta (plus soups and water) to avoid feeling hungry. When I boil pasta, I also drink the water used for boiling. The mainstream uses portion control but Starch Solution does not require portion control. Not relying on fat for fuel means I have to eat more unrefined starch till I am full. I would try the regular Starch Solution for at least 1 year before making changes to the regular Starch Solution diet. The blood sugar levels should go down once there is more weight loss. I would give the regular Starch Solution at least 1 year before claiming that the regular Starch Solution is inadequate. Eating only vegetables for 1 month won't work bec. vegetables won't supply enough calories and fuel to the organs in the body even with no exercise. Today, I just ate 4 servings of whole grain pasta (1 giant bowl) bec. I am going out to walk for several hours. 4 servings of whole wheat pasta is 16 grams of fiber (probably insoluble fiber) and my gas tank feels quite full and happy. To save time, currently eating 2x a day.
Can also try eating some beans in every meal to help slow down the rise in blood sugar.

[dailycarbs]

I wouldn't change anything right now. Quite possibly not enough time to see results. Body weight is important. As you lose more weight (and exercise like others have noted), you may see a big improvement in your numbers. If not, you can try some modifications at that point. Keep measuring your post-prandial 2 hour and 4 hour numbers but don't panic. Just get the information for now. I recommend logging it do future use.

[PreciousTaters]

One week isn't very long, and those numbers aren't going to kill you. It's good to keep an eye on them, as well as a food diary to see if certain foods work better than others. You may want to follow the Maximum Weight Loss guidelines and lose items like corn thins in favor of unrefined starches. Colony's advice about exercise is great, even a short walk before and/or after meals is great at signaling the body to do something with that glucose, rather than circulate it around.

Neal Barnard has a great book specifically about diabetes that is compatible with McDougall:
http://www.amazon.com/Neal-Barnards-Program-Reversing-Diabetes/dp/1594868107/ref=sr_1_1s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1439568462&sr=1-1&keywords=neal+barnard

Whatever you do not starve yourself! A binge is inevitable, everybody breaks sometime.

Have you read this article yet?

[dteresa]

Twenty five years ago when diagnosed with t2 a random blood sugar was 345. The next day I had a fasting number of 245. I was 150 pounds overweight. My A1c was 9

Was not strictly mcdougall but ate a pritikin diet which also included a pound and a half of meat per week, skim milk, egg whites. Nevertheless, my sugars did come down.

After an MI a little over three years ago I became strictly plant based, no animal food at all, no fats or oils at all. Am now at a normal weight.

Latest A1c was 5.0

As I lost more weight my sugars after meals became even better.

I would suggest the maximum weight loss plan which is slightly different from the regular plan, at least until you lose all the weight you would like to lose. There is absolutely no need to count calories or restrict food so that you are always hungry. Just rely on the calorie densities of plant foods. I might have a big bowl of vegie soup, a potato and fruit. Or a huge salad and a potato and fruit. More MWL.

My own post prandial sugars might rise close to two hundred with some meals--like a big banana in a big bowl of oatmeal. I do not worry and as you see my A1c is quite low--normal in fact.

I have a theory. A SAD eater consumes fats, oils, dairy, eggs and all kinds of meats. If your blood sugar runs high while eating these things I think you are in trouble because these animal foods and fats make you insulin resistant so eating any starches or sugars will naturally make your blood sugars even higher and will require lots of insulin to control those sugars. But if you are eating just plants and no fats and the sugars go a bit high after a meal, that meal is not causing insulin resistance.

I think it was good advice to have your A1c tested every three months just to reassure yourself. Remember to stay away from animal protein and fats and get some exercise. There have been even type 1 insulin dependent diabetics on the group who must take insulin to control their sugars yet they report the best result eating a wfpb no fat diet. You can't get a better recommendation than that.

In short, since I only eat plants, I do not worry so much about those after meal numbers. Gradually your fasting numbers will come down.

didi

[MikeInFL]

Diabetes is not a 'high blood sugar' disease, that's a symptom. Diabetes (type 2) is really insulin resistance. The insulin resistance is caused by sugar in your cells are maxed. Intermittent fasting will cure type 2 diabetes as fasting will burn the extra sugar. Then your insulin will function properly again. Between intermittent fasting eat whole food plant based of your choice, that works best for you, and you like the best. You can research intermittent fasting online. It works.

[xButterflyx]

Hi everyone. Thanks so much for all your replies. You all gave me a lot to think about and a lot of encouragement. I'm so grateful for this board. I'm not sure I'd be able to do this without it.

dTeresa, precioustaters, dailycarbs, colonyofcells, grid, vgpedlr, martin, and mike, thanks so much for taking the time to offer advice and suggestions. I was busy a lot today but was still able to just peek in a few times to read some responses. Right now I'm going to dig more into everything that was said, and links that were sent. And read and study everything.

One comment that stands out right now is Frank's about intermittent fasting. Frank if you're reading, would you believe I started that very thing tonight, before even reading your message? I had the same idea. I didn't realize that it would help so much with the diabetes and I'm so glad to hear that. Thank you for mentioning that. It was a confirmation to me.

I have had a lot of success so far in just one short week on this W.O.E. and I'm not going to quit. I lost 5 lbs. and I actually got brave and had a whole sweet potato tonight, not one of the giant ones just a small one, about a cup of mashed cauliflower, and a cup of mixed veggies of corn, peas, and carrots and 2 hours later my sugar was only at 143. That's much lower than I expected it to be after having eaten a potato. Potatoes are what were spiking it up to the high 160s and 170s numbers.

So I'm feeling much better now and I'm much more encouraged. It's the evening of the first day of my 2nd week and I'm ready to go for another round.

A sincere thanks to all of ya.

[colonyofcells]

Water fasting has been tried on diabetes since at least as early as the 1910s before insulin was invented. Intermittent fasting is probably still on the fringe and not promoted by Dr McDougall. I am surprised the diabetes forecast magazine has examined intermittent fasting probably bec of the popular books promoting it. Intermittent fasting seems to be safe for those not on insulin and not taking diabetes medications. I don't recommend it since it does involve some pain during the various versions of the fasting phase. The regular Starch Solution is more painless. I have tried eating only 2x a day (to save time) for long periods which is quite easy to do since I still feel quite full even at night and I enjoy volume eating. Eating 2x a day (skipping dinner) is painless for me so I am not sure if I can call it a version of intermittent fasting. I did not eat breakfast till I was in college and needed more energy (not sure if my mother was just too lazy to prepare breakfast for us) so I have lots of experience eating only 2x a day. Might go back to my old habit of eating 4x a day which is easy for me to do also. For myself, I have not seen any health difference between eating 2x a day and eating 4x a day, so I just do whatever is more convenient for me. On rare occasions when I overdo my volume eating, I have also eaten only 1x a day bec. I was just too full the whole day. On rare buffet celebrations, I eat only 1x a day.
http://www.diabetesforecast.org/2013/au ... -plan.html
Dr McDougall rarely recommends water fasting at the Truenorth health center. Of the many vegan gurus, Dr Joel Fuhrman has a book on water fasting (Fasting and Eating for Health) and I have a copy altho I've not had any need to try water fasting yet. The Natural Hygiene movement also promotes fasting. The vegan Dr Bill Harris who has old friends in the natural hygiene movement also promotes water fasting.
My personal experience is limited to infrequent testing of hba1c (yearly) and free fasting blood sugar (monthly), and so far, the numbers look ok for a few years now so I have never tried doing after meal blood sugar levels which I find a waste of time. I prefer to use my extra time for exercise. It seems that Dr McDougall does not seem to recommend testing after meal blood sugar levels bec. they just cause unnecessary stress. Ignorance is bliss.

[flowerkisser]

During Dr. McDougall's recent webinar he speaks about blood sugar levels, some of which are quite high. You can find the webinar re-broadcast on Dr. McDougall's website. His comments might make you feel more comfortable about your numbers....I hope so. Best of success to you.