Proteins for weightlifting a must ?

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Proteins for weightlifting a must ?

Postby Tmalzer » Sun May 11, 2008 3:57 pm

I consume proteins on a 1.5 gram per kilo bodyweight ratio, its a golden rule within the weightlifting community, with some even doubling this amount. Since the logic behind it is that proteins are the building blocks for (new) muscle tissue and thus a must in your daily diet.
Now I'm a natural weightlifter and stay far away from all those so called magic potions promising fantastic results, except ofcourse for the shakes with a complex of proteins.
My question would be can I gain without these as well ? Or do the health benefits from exersizing regularly, have a mitigating effect for me to not be concerned over the long term impact of high protein consumption ?
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Re: Proteins for weightlifting a must ?

Postby JeffN » Sun May 11, 2008 4:47 pm

Tmalzer wrote:My question would be can I gain without these as well ? Or do the health benefits from exersizing regularly, have a mitigating effect for me to not be concerned over the long term impact of high protein consumption ?


Hi,

The biggest influence on muscle is resistance exercise and muscle fiber type, which is determined by genetics. Training will influence it little.

The benefits of exercise has limits and many well conditioned and trained athletes die young of dietary related disease.

Also, you may have some conflicting goals as many of the practices of bodybuilders and those of optimal health are not always synonymous.

You may want to read this discussion on this topic

http://www.drmcdougall.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=5015

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Postby Tmalzer » Sun May 11, 2008 5:20 pm

Thank you for your quick response, I guess I will not be having that extra shake before I go to sleep :D
But whats really incredible though are all the products on sale claiming to boost ones igf levels when its clear that it has a detrimental effect on your health.
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Postby nine9s » Tue May 13, 2008 11:04 am

Vegan Weightlifting: What Does the Science Say?
By Jack Norris, RD


http://www.vrg.org/journal/vj2003issue4/vj2003issue4weight.htm

Excerpt:

Two studies are particularly relevant. Lemon et al. studied 12 men starting an intensive weight training program of 1.5 hours, six days a week.1 They compared one month of supplementing with carbohydrates (on a diet of 1.4 g/kg of protein per day) to one month of supplementing with protein (for a total of 2.6 g/kg of protein per day) for the same people. They determined that a protein intake of 1.6 to 1.7 g/kg was needed to achieve nitrogen balance. However, muscle size and strength increased the same amount on both regimens. The authors thought that extra amino acids for the muscle-building during the carbohydrate treatment were coming from amino acid pools found in the digestive tract, kidneys, or liver. These sources are small and will eventually be depleted.

The second study was conducted by Tarnopolsky et al. on six lacto-ovo vegetarian bodybuilders who had been training intensively for at least three years.2 The bodybuilders normally ate 2.77 g/kg of protein. Upon reducing their protein intake to 1.05 g/kg, the group remained in nitrogen balance and changes in lean (non-fat) body mass did not occur. Two individuals, however, were found to have a negative nitrogen balance while eating 1.05 g/kg of protein. These results indicated that protein needs for the majority of advanced bodybuilders are fairly close to 1.05 g/kg but that some may have higher requirements.

Taken together, these studies on a small number of athletes imply that protein needs (per body weight) may be greater in the beginning stages of training (when muscles are making larger increases and protein is deposited) than when muscle mass has plateaued.

The Food and Nutrition Board, which sets the RDA, reviewed Lemon et al.'s study and others and concluded there is no sufficient evidence to support that resistance training increases the protein RDA of .80 g/kg for healthy adults.
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Postby JeffN » Tue May 13, 2008 12:12 pm

nine9s wrote:Vegan Weightlifting: What Does the Science Say?
By Jack Norris, RD


http://www.vrg.org/journal/vj2003issue4/vj2003issue4weight.htm

Excerpt:

Two studies are particularly relevant. Lemon et al. studied 12 men starting an intensive weight training program of 1.5 hours, six days a week.1 They compared one month of supplementing with carbohydrates (on a diet of 1.4 g/kg of protein per day) to one month of supplementing with protein (for a total of 2.6 g/kg of protein per day) for the same people. They determined that a protein intake of 1.6 to 1.7 g/kg was needed to achieve nitrogen balance. However, muscle size and strength increased the same amount on both regimens. The authors thought that extra amino acids for the muscle-building during the carbohydrate treatment were coming from amino acid pools found in the digestive tract, kidneys, or liver. These sources are small and will eventually be depleted.

The second study was conducted by Tarnopolsky et al. on six lacto-ovo vegetarian bodybuilders who had been training intensively for at least three years.2 The bodybuilders normally ate 2.77 g/kg of protein. Upon reducing their protein intake to 1.05 g/kg, the group remained in nitrogen balance and changes in lean (non-fat) body mass did not occur. Two individuals, however, were found to have a negative nitrogen balance while eating 1.05 g/kg of protein. These results indicated that protein needs for the majority of advanced bodybuilders are fairly close to 1.05 g/kg but that some may have higher requirements.

Taken together, these studies on a small number of athletes imply that protein needs (per body weight) may be greater in the beginning stages of training (when muscles are making larger increases and protein is deposited) than when muscle mass has plateaued.

The Food and Nutrition Board, which sets the RDA, reviewed Lemon et al.'s study and others and concluded there is no sufficient evidence to support that resistance training increases the protein RDA of .80 g/kg for healthy adults.


Thanks for posting this info.

In addition, realize that most all Americans, and most all vegetarians, and most all vegans already greatly exceed the .8gm/kg especially with all the soy products and meat substitutes they consume.

For a 150 lb man, the .8gr/kg is around 55 grams. For a 200 lb man it is around 72 grams

As the average American male gets in around 15% of their calorie from protein, and takes in around 2600 calories, 15% of 2600 is 390 calories of protein. Divide that by 4 (to get to grams) and you get 97 grams of protein.

The 97 grams of protein equates to 1.42 grams/kg for the 150 lb man and 1.07 grams/kg for the 200 lb man, which is 35% to 76% more than the recommended amount which most people are already getting in.

And remember, the .8g/kg already includes a "safety factor". Our actual needs are much less.

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Postby JeffN » Mon Jun 09, 2008 9:08 pm

Plant Foods for Preserving Muscle Mass
By Rosalie Marion Bliss
May 23, 2008

Fruits and vegetables contain essential vitamins, minerals and fiber that are key to good health. Now, a newly released study by Agricultural Research Service (ARS)-funded scientists suggests plant foods also may help preserve muscle mass in older men and women.

The study was led by physician and nutrition specialist Bess Dawson-Hughes at the Jean Mayer USDA Human Nutrition Research Center on Aging at Tufts University in Boston, Mass.

The typical American diet is rich in protein, cereal grains and other acid-producing foods. In general, such diets generate tiny amounts of acid each day. With aging, a mild but slowly increasing metabolic "acidosis" develops, according to the researchers.

Acidosis appears to trigger a muscle-wasting response. So the researchers looked at links between measures of lean body mass and diets relatively high in potassium-rich, alkaline-residue producing fruits and vegetables. Such diets could help neutralize acidosis. Foods can be considered alkaline or acidic based on the residues they produce in the body, rather than whether they are alkaline or acidic themselves. For example, acidic grapefruits are metabolized to alkaline residues.

The researchers conducted a cross-sectional analysis on a subset of nearly 400 male and female volunteers aged 65 or older who had completed a three-year osteoporosis intervention trial. The volunteers' physical activity, height and weight, and percentage of lean body mass were measured at the start of the study and at three years. Their urinary potassium was measured at the start of the study, and their dietary data was collected at 18 months.

Based on regression models, volunteers whose diets were rich in potassium could expect to have 3.6 more pounds of lean tissue mass than volunteers with half the higher potassium intake. That almost offsets the 4.4 pounds of lean tissue that is typically lost in a decade in healthy men and women aged 65 and above, according to authors. The study was published in the March issue of the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition.

Sarcopenia, or loss of muscle mass, can lead to falls due to weakened leg muscles. The authors encourage future studies that look into the effects of increasing overall intake of foods that metabolize to alkaline residues on muscle mass and functionality.

ARS is the U.S. Department of Agriculture's chief scientific research agency.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++

American Journal of Clinical Nutrition, Vol. 87, No. 3, 662-665, March 2008
Alkaline diets favor lean tissue mass in older adults

Background: Maintaining muscle mass while aging is important to prevent falls and fractures. Metabolic acidosis promotes muscle wasting, and the net acid load from diets that are rich in net acid–producing protein and cereal grains relative to their content of net alkali–producing fruit and vegetables may therefore contribute to a reduction in lean tissue mass in older adults.

Objective: We aimed to determine whether there was an association of 24-h urinary potassium and an index of fruit and vegetable content of the diet with the percentage lean body mass (%LBM) or change in %LBM in older subjects.

Design: Subjects were 384 men and women 65 y old who participated in a 3-y trial comparing calcium and vitamin D with placebo. Potassium was measured in 24-h urine collections at baseline. The %LBM, defined as total body nonfat, nonbone tissue weight ÷ weight x 100, was measured by using dual-energy X-ray absorptiometry at baseline and at 3 y. Physical activity, height, and weight were assessed at baseline and at 3 y.

Results: At baseline, the mean urinary potassium excretion was 67.0 ± 21.1 mmol/d. Urinary potassium (mmol/d) was significantly positively associated with %LBM at baseline (β = 0.033, P = 0.006; adjusted for sex, weight, and nitrogen excretion) but not with 3-y change in %LBM. Over the 3-y study, %LBM increased by 2.6 ± 3.6%.

Conclusion: Higher intake of foods rich in potassium, such as fruit and vegetables, may favor the preservation of muscle mass in older men and women.
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