Low WBC

[Bkworm]

Hello everyone,

Sure hope I can get some direction as to what is going on in my body.

As background, I am a 72-year-old female who was diagnosed with RA in June 2010. I left my last appointment with the Rheumatologist with a diagnosis of RA and with a prescription for Methotrexate and Folic Acid plus an appointment to come back so we could determine how my body would adjust to the meds. I was told I could take up to 12 Aleve tablets a day for pain as needed. If my body adjusted well, I would then have a biologic med such as Enbrel added to the mix and start lab work every 4-6 weeks. I did have the two prescriptions filled but never took even one dose after extensive research. I still have the two bottles sitting here.

The next 2 and a half years were a nightmare. I cried most days due to the unrelenting pain. Then in January 2013 while recovering from yet another case of bronchitis and was watching various health videos on Netflix. I came across Forks Over Knives plus Kitchen Rescue with Rip Esselstyn. The first lady in Kitchen Rescue was dealing with RA and wanted to try the WFPB way of eating to see if it would help her get off her RA meds.

I started researching the various doctors in Forks Over Knives and decided I had nothing to lose by trying the WFPB. I cleaned out my kitchen and told my husband and son this was the way I would be preparing meals in the future.

Within just two weeks there was a remarkable difference in my condition and by the end of the month I was pain free for the first time in over four years. My DH and DS both could definitely see the difference the WFPB way of eating was helping me.

Soon after this my annual blood work started showing a lower WBC. Back then my PCP said it was probably due to the RA. This year she said my WBC is so low that I need to see a hematologist.

Due to severe damage caused by Hurricane Irma and Hurricane Ian, I no longer have my older medical tests results. However in 2021 the WBC was 3.24, in 2022 4.16 and in 2024 it is 2.99.

I have researched this topic and still don’t understand what is happening. I have not had so much as a cold since I started eating WFPB. Just before the Covid shut down, I did have something that was diagnosed as bronchitis. It was unlike any episodes of bronchitis I have ever experienced. I did see a doctor who gave me some antibiotics. Never came close to going to a hospital. Have no idea if it might have been Covid as I was not tested. Then this past August all three of us tested positive for Covid within just a week of one another. I caught it last and experienced the least symptoms. I did not even see a doctor that time.

I feel great. I walk 4-5 miles a day 5-6 days a week.I do housework, cook, some yard work, pay bills, etc. Had no idea I could have something serious. Must admit this has knocked me for a loop.

Is there something about the way we eat that might enter into this? What can/should I say to the hematologist at my appointment about the way I eat, if anything? I am not perfect with WFPB but eat compliant about 97%-98% of the time.

Any information would be greatly appreciated. Thank you. Sorry this is so long.

[VeggieSue]

If you do a web search for WFPB or vegan and WBC you'll see that this occurs to many plant based eaters, the cause not entirely known.

Before my husband was diagnosed with his leukemia (It runs in his family), and he had white counts lower than yours, the hematologist said that by itself a low WBC was nothing to worry about because he's seen that happen to many otherwise healthy vegans. My husband had many wonky test results, not just the WBC, and all his counts started dropping rapidly last June after creeping slowly for a decade, so eventually he wound up with a bone marrow biopsy that gave him his official diagnosis.

The hematologist will run his/her own labwork, not just routine CBCs and chemistry but a bunch more specific to blood diseases, to see if you have anything cooking. Because my husband's RBC, Hgb & Hct, platelets, and other blood components were so off he also had an ultrasound scan of the abdomen to specifically look at his spleen and liver.

In all likelyhood your low white count is not going to be anything to worry about.

Don't worry about not having older labwork - none of my husband's doctors really wanted to see it all except the first hematologist, who saw his counts had steadily been getting worse over the previous 10 or so years. As I said, with leukemia in his family they've been keeping a close eye on him for a while.

[Bkworm]

Once again VeggieSue, you have answered a lot of my questions. Thank you so much. I do hope your husband's leukemia is now in remission and his health continues to improve.

I admit I am a bit apprehensive about this. This is the first new doctor I have seen since I started the WFPB way of eating just over 11 years ago. I feel so good eating this way I can't see how there is anything seriously wrong. My PCP doctor has been saying for years that the low WBC was due to the RA I deal with completely with the WFPB lifestyle. I never took any meds for the RA and don't intend to start now.

I am wondering if my PCP is just trying to get rid of me as a patient since I don't automatically toe the line on all the recommended tests she wants me to undergo. Each visit, about every six months, she seems to be pushing harder and harder.This time she told me that she might not be allowed to continue seeing me as my insurance company may not continue to cover me without all the tests. So far I have never heard from the insurance company. Our insurance is through the hospital where my husband has worked for 45 years which makes the issues a bit more difficult supposedly. My husband is supposedly going to retire next year at age 75 after completing 46 years with the hospital. Then Medicare will be our primary insurance. I will believe he is retired when he finally hands in his paperwork, not until then.

Oh well, I will go through with the appointment next week to see what happens.

Thanks again Veggie Sue.

[Bkworm]

Hello, Veggie Sue,

Just wanted to let you know I went for the hematologist appointment yesterday. They drew 8 or 10 vials of blood. Everything was in the normal range yesterday. Was surprised that they completed the blood work at their office. My WBC levels went from 2.99 on 2/12/24 to 4.95 yesterday. The title at the top of the blood work papers is Oncology CBC with Differential.It covers all the tests they conducted.

The hematologist said she believes that the differences in the blood work was due to the RA and I might have been in the middle of a flare of the arthritis when the blood was drawn in February. She indicated many people's blood work who have autoimmune disorders usually can vary from week to week. I remember that it was cold that week and the cold does affect the RA no matter what I eat and whether I stay warm or not.

The doctor had never heard of the WFPB lifestyle which did not come as a surprise. I explained I had researched about low WBCs and added some things to my diet to see if it would increase the WBCs. I don't usually eat nuts but added a small amount of walnuts to my diet daily. I have a sauce from Jane and Ann Esselstyn that contains Ginger (also good for WBCs), Walnuts, and rice vinegar along with maple syrup, miso, tamari sauce, and water which I eat on everything almost - broccolii, cauliflower, salads, brussels sprouts, baked potato. I also added more foods high in Vitamin C such as broccoli and bell peppers. Can't eat citrus as that definitely causes my joints to flare. Also added in lots of mushroom dishes. Anyway, the doctor said that apparently helped.

I am so grateful that everything was ok and credit the WFPB way of eating for 11 years. I don't even have to have a follow-up visit with the hematologist.

Thanks again, Veggie Sue, for all your input and advice.

[Daydream]

Bkworm, I'm happy to hear you are doing well and that you don't need a follow up visit with the hematologist. The McDougall diet is a healing diet! I wish you continued good health.

[Bkworm]

Thanks Daydream, We certainly celebrated last night. I agree that the WFPB lifestyle has certainly been healing for me over the past 11 years. I hadn't had so much as a cold or flu over that time and then got Covid last August but it was not anywhere near as bad all the cases of bronchitis I used to get several times a year.

[Mark Cooper]

I am so grateful that everything was ok and credit the WFPB way of eating for 11 years. I don't even have to have a follow-up visit with the hematologist.

That seems like very good news, indeed. Congratulations and best wishes!

[Bkworm]

Thanks, Mark,

Haven't posted much in the last several years but hope to get back to doing so. I love this lifestyle and wish everyone would follow it. Even after 11+ years, people still look at me like I am crazy when they ask about the way I eat. Even people with RA like I deal with can't seem to accept the idea that they could improve their condition by changing the way they eat. I don't believe anyone has ever changed their way of eating after I discuss WFPB with them. A few did try it briefly but went back to the SAD within a week or so saying they couldn't give up this food or that food, such as cheese.

Was so eager to share this way of eating at the beginning but over the years have learned to never bring it up unless someone asks questions. The hematologist did not act like I was crazy exactly but was not interested in discussing it. I even mentioned Dr. Monica Aggarwal to her. Dr. Aggarwal is a cardiologist in our area affiliated with the same hospital as the hematologist. Dr. Aggarwal is one of the authors of Body on Fire as well as the accompanying cookbook. Have listened to several of her presentations on YouTube but just started reading the books. Oh well, maybe some day I will meet someone who is interested in making positive changes.

Thanks again, Mark.

[MostlyPlantEater]

Here is what Dr. Fuhrman says about having a low WBC count.

But in any case, doctors also have to be aware that when people eat a diet as healthy as I recommend, that’s high in micronutrients, it drops down the white blood cell count. And a lower white blood cell count is associated with longer life. We’re talking about here the normal range is about 5 -10 and that a person eating a nutritarian diet or a high-nutrient diet which I call a nutritarian diet can drop the white blood cell count to 2.5 and a conventional physician, not knowing this, may then refer you to an oncologist thinking you need a bone marrow biopsy and workup. Really it just shows that you’re in better health, the white blood count is so low. I’m saying that doctors should be taught, that people who eat very very healthily with lots of green vegetables, berries and beans, then their white blood count is supposed to be low. It’s a good sign, not a bad sign.

[MostlyPlantEater]

Michael Greger says the same thing as Fuhrman.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dLP0g70-Ryc

[MostlyPlantEater]

PS - FYI

My last WBC count was 3.3. This was back in Feb. of 2024. My WBC dropped when I began this WOE in 2013.

[VeggieSue]

Was surprised that they completed the blood work at their office.

My husband's first hematologist has 2 offices. The local one is a satellite office and doesn't do their own labs on site, but his main office does. When his counts dropped dramatically between visits the doc had him go to the main office the next day and labs were completed in 5 minutes. The cancer center he goes to now has their own lab. Every visit starts with the lab, and by the time we get upstairs to the offices the results are already posted in the system. Sometimes we see them via the patient portal before he even gets called into the examining room.

The hematologist said she believes that the differences in the blood work was due to the RA and I might have been in the middle of a flare of the arthritis when the blood was drawn in February.

Great news that she found the reason!

The doctor had never heard of the WFPB lifestyle which did not come as a surprise.

We were lucky. There are 3 MDs and 5 APNs (Advanced Practice Nurses) in the leukemia group and the first doctor my husband saw was very much aware of WFPB eating and encouraged it for all her patients. She was happy to hear we already ate that way and explained some tweaks we had to make to turn it into the neutropenic/low microbial version, omitting certain fruits and veggies that can't easily be scrubbed, not eating pre-cut produce, etc.

I am so grateful that everything was ok and credit the WFPB way of eating for 11 years. I don't even have to have a follow-up visit with the hematologist.

Even better news! Congrats!

[Drew_ab]

You might be interested to see my response in this thread regarding WBC counts. I have had it tested 15 times since 2011 when I started following this WOE.

viewtopic.php?f=7&t=62168

[Bkworm]

Hello to everyone who so kindly took time of your busy lives to respond to my questions. Just as all the responses came in, my computer died and it took this long to get everything up and running again. I first had to find out what was wrong and it it could be fixed, which it couldn't, so ended up having to purchase a new computer and get it set up. Yet another expense I really couldn't afford but it had to be done.

Thank you to everyone who responded. I truly appreciate your comments and advice.