Still not feeling my best

[haze5736]

I'm not sure where to start. I've been eating WFPB no oil, low SOS for over 2.5 years now. While I do feel better overall in certain ways, I definitely do not feel my best. I don't know what my best feels like but I know I have not reached it because I sometimes feel not so great.

I'll start with the things that make me feel not so great.

1) Most days after I eat lunch and dinner, say within 2 hours, I get to a point where I am so sleepy I can not keep my eyes open. I have literally fallen asleep at my desk at work. I'll be reading something on my screen and just doze off. When I sit down and watch TV at night the same thing happens. Sometimes I'll doze off then wake up within maybe 20 minutes and have no problem staying awake for a couple more hours.

2) Joint pain. This one is really bothering me. I've been suffering with joint pain for over 8 years. Left shoulder, right hip/groin and both knees. Right now as I'm typing this I can feel my left knee and hip throbbing. Some days are better than others.

I've tried all sorts of things for the pain. I stopped running, the hip pain started about 8 years ago when training for a marathon. I finally gave up running a couple of years ago. I've tried physical therapy, chiropractors, massage therapy and Egoscue therapy. Egoscue therapy is the only thing that seems to have any lasting affect on the pain, although it just won't go away. This past week seems to have gotten worse for the pain.

This past year I had a bunch of blood tests done and the only thing that came back as being off was Vitamin D. Of course, I live in Syracuse NY. I may as well live in a cave for almost 6 months of the year. I can't change that for at least another 4 years. Two other things that I am not familiar with. MCH was high at 32.1 pg and RDW was low at 11.0%. Everything else came back within range.

I do know one thing I struggle with is over eating. Although this is confusing to me because I have not gained any weight. I am 6' 3" and between 148 and 150 pounds. I lost 20-25 pounds within 2 years of eating this way while stuffing myself at almost every meal. I eat until I am stuffed at just about every meal. I feel like I can't help myself. One bowl of oatmeal is never enough for me at breakfast. One bowl of rice and chili is not enough I have to go back for toast with peanut butter. This is just an example from today's lunch. I know I'm over eating, I will finally feel full and my stomach will feel like it is pushing out and I'll feel the pulsing of my blood behind my ears and in my head. Sometimes I can even see the pulsing if that makes sense to anyone. I also tried an elimination diet for two weeks but couldn't stick with it. I continued to stuff myself on brown rice, sweet potatoes and some greens. I didn't notice any improvement after 2 weeks.

I'm wondering if my over consumption is related to my joint pain not going away. But then I get confused because, if I start to eat less won't I lose weight? I have tried eating less a few times but it takes every ounce of will power and I eventually cave in. I really don't know what else to do.

This article kind of resonated with me where it talks about Toxic Hunger vs Real Hunger . I don't know how credible the info is but it does strike a chord with me. However, the article is framed in the context of people eating low micronutrient diets and being over weight. I'm pretty sure my diet is high micronutrient. Although I will eat whole wheat flour products like home made sourdough bread and pastas. And I probably eat more sugars than I should but I have not gained weight doing so.

I really don't know what to do. I would actually prefer to gain some weight at this point. I definitely don't want to lose any. If I knew I was over eating for certain then I could probably make adjustments knowing there may be hope. But not making progress in 2.5 years has really put a damper on my motivation to "just do" anything else. I am the type of person that could do that but I feel so defeated I don't want to put the effort in.

[f00die]

try some regular resistance training exercise

[jamietwo]

You're certainly not overweight. I'm not sure how to address your overeating concerns.

You mentioned that you weren't able to stick with the elimination diet. I know its hard. Have you read Dr. McDougall's article: https://www.drmcdougall.com/health/educ ... s-to-food/ ?

This is an excerpt from it: If your problems persist, then the next suspects to eliminate are wheat, corn, citrus fruits, tomatoes, and strawberries–the most frequent causes of allergy among the foods in the vegetable kingdom.

So if you haven't tried it, I would suggest eliminating all those things he mentions from your diet for a week or two (or more) and see if you feel better. If you DO feel better, you can introduce them back into your diet one at a time to see which one (or ones) are causing the issues. I've also heard that Jeff Novick does phone consultations (I'm hoping to hire him once I get my house sold because my experience with the ED is that I react to everything I test!)

Good luck!

[Grammy Ginger]

Dr. M has some interesting articles about arthritis that you should read.

I've been eating this way for a decade. Before that, I alternated between carnivore and vegetarian. Although many, many of my various issues resolved, not all did. These are better than they were but not perfect. I was really frustrated about this a few weeks ago. These are the epiphanies I received.

1. Eating the optimal fuel for our human machines will result in the best outcome. If the machine has been damaged and abused for decades, we can't expect it to return to factory new condition. But it can be restored in a lot of ways.

2. Regardless of all the beautiful foods we consume now, our bodies will age. While we delay, reverse, and sometimes eliminate degenerative disease, our bodies do have inherent weaknesses and sometimes bad dna. We may get sick. Our parts wear out. We are not immortal. We will die. However, the beautiful foods give us the best scenario for the longest, healthiest life possible.

3. Even all the good food in the world cannot help us if we continue to abuse the body with too much or too little exercise, sleep, and calm.

So....In spite of the pain, eat right, smile more, love more, laugh more, move more, dance more, sing more, paint more, play more, garden more, be optimistic, be kind, meditate, pray, serve, cook, and rest when you need to without apology.

I wish you all the best.

[LuckyMomma]

If i am sleepy after a meal, I’ve eaten too much starch. when I eat starch I need to eat it An equal or larger amount of high fiber foods, like greens. Beans have more fiber than lots of other carbs.

About joint pain, I experience it to. I have to have a super clean diet, and not too much carbs. Streching everyday to loosen up all the kinks and exercise.

It is my opinion, Since you are slim, it’s okay to eat nuts and seeds.

We are all biologically different and we need to tweak our diet to our needs.

[haze5736]

I have not eliminated those foods outside of my ED trial. I was under the impression that 2 weeks should have been enough time to see some sort of improvement. I know everyone is different but not having any positive affect in 2 weeks does not bode well for me wanting to try eliminating foods again.

I'm really hoping someone can tell me if eating too much and too often and never really feeling hungry could be causing my issues.

I did think about consulting with Jeff. I actually mentioned it to my wife this morning. I am going to wait until after the holidays. I definitely won't be willing to do whatever it takes over the next two weeks.

How do you set up an appointment with Jeff?

[bunsofaluminum]

My first thought when you mention falling asleep during the day is to ask whether you are getting consistently good sleep at night. Sleep deprivation can lead to falling asleep very easily, for instance whenever you sit still for any length of time. Just a thought.

That overfull experience of feeling the pulse in your eyeballs: Been there. It's an overeating thing for sure. Or a "lack of fullness signal" thing. Do you ever NOT feel hungry? That is, are there times when you say "hm, not feeling hungry right now"? Or ever have times when you aren't anticipating the next meal or craving food of some kind? I'm jealo---happy for you that you aren't gaining weight!

[Chumly]

Did you read the Egooscue book and follow the exercises, or get therapy from an Egoscue clinic? It helped me a lot, but I went to a clinic for 8 sessions in Atlanta. I hear you about living in Syracuse. there's very little sunlight in the Winter. I grew up there, but moved to Atlanta in 2000. I'm flying back up Saturday to visit family, but I'm not looking forward to the cold and gray skies.

Michael

[Vegankit]

I tried the elimination diet several times with no success until I figured out rice wax one of the foods I cannot tolerate. I thought rice was a very safe food choice for an elimination diet since pediatricians and veterinarians recommendate it. No wonder it didn’t help, I was eating rice multiple times a day on the elimination diet.

You may not have problems with rice, but if you’re not finding success starting the elimination diet, consider some foods considered generally safe for most people may be causing you issues and change what you eat.

[Lyndzie]

You can send Jeff a PM and he can give you further details. I’ve had two phone calls with him, and found it well worth the investment. So great to talk to someone knowledgeable about this way of eating.

[colonyofcells]

To avoid dozing off after meals, can try standing at work and at home. Can get at least 7 hours of sleep.

[veg tom]

Fresh organic turmeric is great for inflation. Eat about an inch of it everyday and it will help with the pain. No im not a doctor just your every day McDougaller.

[Hal]

It could be that less peanut butter will help if you still have joint pain, along with any other high density/fat food.
Regarding sleepiness - Have you eliminated the possibility of sleep apnia? I was able to alleviate sleep apnea by sleeping propped up, in a position where watching TV at the end of the bed would not require sitting up further - such that the body and but are flat like normal, but the neck is bent and head nearly vertical as when sitting up. I went from needing about 10 hours sleep to feel 'right' to just under 8. I used overnight audio recording to discover the position for best free uninterrupted breathing. Part of the benefit of this position is that my nostrils remain open too. Hope this helps you or anyone having trouble staying awake.

[haze5736]

My first thought when you mention falling asleep during the day is to ask whether you are getting consistently good sleep at night. Sleep deprivation can lead to falling asleep very easily, for instance whenever you sit still for any length of time. Just a thought.

That overfull experience of feeling the pulse in your eyeballs: Been there. It's an overeating thing for sure. Or a "lack of fullness signal" thing. Do you ever NOT feel hungry? That is, are there times when you say "hm, not feeling hungry right now"? Or ever have times when you aren't anticipating the next meal or craving food of some kind? I'm jealo---happy for you that you aren't gaining weight!

I am definitely not sleeping well. Have not for a long time. I seem to be unable to remain comfortable in bed. I can usually sleep ok for 4-5 hours then I tend to wake up and can't find a comfortable position. Sometimes I can get on and off sleep for another few hours. Sometimes I never get back to sleep and just get up for the day. I've tried all sorts of pillows. New and expensive mattress.

There are times I feel not hungry but I'll still be thinking about when I can eat again. And it is not just hyper palatable foods that I overeat on. I'll do it with plain rice or oatmeal, plain rice and beans, rice and veggies. I tried eating bland foods hoping the boredom would lead to less eating. I've seen posts by Jeff about overeating less with plain/bland foods. I guess that doesn't work for me.

[haze5736]

Did you read the Egooscue book and follow the exercises, or get therapy from an Egoscue clinic? It helped me a lot, but I went to a clinic for 8 sessions in Atlanta. I hear you about living in Syracuse. there's very little sunlight in the Winter. I grew up there, but moved to Atlanta in 2000. I'm flying back up Saturday to visit family, but I'm not looking forward to the cold and gray skies.

Michael

I read the book first. Then I went to a clinic, over 4 hours away, for my first visit and my follow-up visits are via skype. I think I'm on visit 14 out of 16. This has been a very expensive endeavor. One thing I've noticed is that if I can control myself with eating I get much better results from the Ecises. That is, I must make sure that I am truly hungry before eating again and I must not over eat. When I do this it normally works out to only 2 meals a day. But I feel like that's not enough food unless I really load up. But if I load up I feel not so great. I guess I'm having a hard time figuring out frequency of eating and appropriate calorie density.

On the bright side I guess typing these posts out on the forum is helping me realize that I really need to figure out the over eating thing. I just wish i could figure out what it is that keeps me thinking about food/eating all day. Boredom perhaps? Maybe I need a new job that keeps my mind occupied. My job will be changing in the next few months. I'll be less on auto pilot and there will be 6 months or more of intensive learning. It probably doesn't help that I've been working from home a lot more lately. Easy access to the food supply. When I go to the office I only eat what I bring. And for some odd reason I've been very good about not eating the junk in the office even when I feel that urge to eat.