Heavier after a month

[MikeyAus]

Hi,

I've just measured a substantial weight gain of 10kg after 1 month of 'ad libitum' starching.

I am 43, 177cm, Male, Vegetarian for 10 years, 50% body water, 32% body fat.
Starting weight 93kg.
Current weight 103kg.


I've been having 2kg of potatoes for breakfast most mornings with salt, big bowls of sugarless cornflakes with water
and a sprinkle of raw sugar, big meals (500 dry grams) of 100% wholemeal pasta with organic pasta sauce with minimal
oil (8grams in 500 grams) one jar of which lasts for 2 pasta meals, loaves of 'good' bread with grains and seeds, no dairy, no eggs, no fish, no meat of course. I have ordered pizza out 4 times as vegetarian with no cheese. Polenta once, big helpings of raw rolled oats, wheat bricks with water and sugar sprinkled. A pot of herbal tea unsweetened each morning. And the occasional carob protein added to a banana smoothie on water after workouts (bananas, water, protein). A little salad every other day with some beans. The occasional schooner of beer.

Generally feeling good, except for a few things.
The Good -
My sleep times have normalised.
My anxiety has gone down.
I've had enough to eat, and am sated at every meal, different to my previous dietary lifestyle seeking calories predominantly from fruit, and rarely feeling satisfied.
People tell me I'm looking well.
I have stopped abusing cheese (or eating it at all).
I've stopped using oil on salads.
Getting up before the sun, I've been out and walking by the river on a few occasions.
I would say on the whole, my energy has been improved, I noticed it after just a few meals of
potatoes, and that my thinking seemed clearer and easier.

The Concerning -
Early on my appetite was so ravenous I finished 4kg of boiled potatoes in a day... and could have gone to 6kg.
Big meals blow up my stomach / weigh me down.
Hit by waves of sleepiness after big potato or pasta meals.
Jeans are almost too tight to wear now.
10 kg increase in weight in a month.
I'm at my heaviest weight ever and passing 100kg (103kg) for the first time in 16 years (normally sit around 90kg).
Had two indicators of two hypo-glycemic episodes (nerves and sweat), but I'd eaten a fairly substantial breakfast that day, but nonetheless crashed after a few hours.
I had 11 days off my fitness program because I felt under-recovered - ordinarily I would do 2 workouts every 4 days, or 4 workouts in 4 days (2 days of 2 sessions, 2 days of recovery) on a training calendar - adding protein smoothies seemed to give my muscles what they needed for recovery.
Raised body temperature, to the point of sleeping outside in our mild Winter (I heard feeling warmer was a normal reaction to more starch-carbs % of diet.)
Some doubt entered about 'ad libitum' because I eat a lot.

Any thoughts and suggestions would be welcome.
Thanks for reading, and nice to make your acquaintance.

[DanTheYogi]

I would recommend reviewing this thread.

viewtopic.php?f=22&t=27333

Specifically:

As we can see, this point is also highlighted in several of the Top 10 Reasons including

1) Poor Adherence/compliance. Sometimes from lack of application and sometimes from lack of understanding of the principles.

Protein extract/powder/etc. is not a part of the program.

5) Not understanding the difference between something that is "allowed" on occasion in small quantities, and something that is "recommended."

Corn flakes w/added sugar, "veggie" pizza, pasta with oil, bread, and banana smoothies would all fall into this category to some degree.

It appears to me you could work on incorporating more intact whole grains and non-starchy vegetables into your diet.

EDIT: I just noticed the "wheat bricks" portion as well. I do not know what wheat bricks are, but from the name, it also sounds like a processed/dry grain that may need to be limited by some people as well.

[Ltldogg]

Hi MikeyAus,

Welcome to the forums! Thank you for providing detail on what you have been eating. Unfortunately, you are not following the program and are eating too much processed, oily and salty foods and also foods high in calorie density. The McDougall and Jeff Novick WOE is based on whole plant foods, starch centered, low in calorie density and minimally added salt and sugar with no oils.

I suggest you review this thread from Jeff Novick and all the links contained within:

viewtopic.php?f=22&t=7828

Once you follow the program 100%, you will see results including weight loss.

Cheers,
Scott

[AlwaysAgnes]

Hi. Here are my random thoughts.

I'm assuming "wheat bricks" are something along the lines of Weetabix or Shredded wheat. If you're a volume eater, you may have to try to limit/avoid the dry cereals. They're much higher in calorie density than intact grains, cooked cereals or potatoes. I don't think the carbs from them will make you fat (it's very difficult for the body to convert carbohydrate to fat), but if you're eating fats from other sources (nuts and seeds in bread, a little oil in pasta sauce, probably oil in pizza crust) then you're more likely to end up wearing those fats.

Dr. McDougall frowns on isolated proteins like those found in protein powder. Maybe you could eat some beans instead?

If you're a volume eater, you may want to eat more vegetables. You may need to limit or avoid the pasta and flour products, even whole grain ones.

https://www.drmcdougall.com/misc/2005nl ... 100vol.htm
https://www.drmcdougall.com/misc/2005nl ... ushing.htm

Pritikin calorie density chart. https://www.pritikin.com/your-health/he ... ories.html
Jeff Novick's calorie density article and chart. https://www.forksoverknives.com/the-cal ... gs.vWtEvOY

You may find that things "even out" for you in time with the appetite and with the weight. I think a lot of people feel like they're eating more in the beginning of the starch-based diet. Some people eat very large amounts of food. We just have to be mindful of calorie density. A lot of that weight you've gained is probably water weight rather than body fat. Then there's that thing called a food baby.


I'm not a volume eater and have a hard time wrapping my head around eating 4 pounds of potatoes or a pound (dry weight) of pasta at a time, though I can and do incorporate those food items into meals that feed the four of us.

Sleep is very important. Sunshine, too.

[GeoffreyLevens]

If you're a volume eater, you may have to try to limit/avoid the dry cereals. They're much higher in calorie density than intact grains, cooked cereals or potatoes. I don't think the carbs from them will make you fat (it's very difficult for the body to convert carbohydrate to fat), but if you're eating fats from other sources (nuts and seeds in bread, a little oil in pasta sauce, probably oil in pizza crust) then you're more likely to end up wearing those fats.

Though it is a bit more of a complex process for the body to store excess carbs as fat, it is not a huge difference in practice. If you eat more calories than you use, whether carbs, fat, or protein, it will be converted to fat and stored. It is that simple. That is why calorie density is such an incredibly useful tool and why in the studies, everyone eating beyond a certain average calorie density will gain weight. No if's, no but's, no except for carbs...just over a certain calorie density. And even there, bodily needs/metabolisms do differ and so some will need to go a bit lower calorie density. That is why the McDougall plate is flexible, between 1/2 and 1/3 carbs.

And of course, this all applies to "eating until satisfied", not "until stuffed to the limit".

[AlwaysAgnes]

If you're a volume eater, you may have to try to limit/avoid the dry cereals. They're much higher in calorie density than intact grains, cooked cereals or potatoes. I don't think the carbs from them will make you fat (it's very difficult for the body to convert carbohydrate to fat), but if you're eating fats from other sources (nuts and seeds in bread, a little oil in pasta sauce, probably oil in pizza crust) then you're more likely to end up wearing those fats.

Though it is a bit more of a complex process for the body to store excess carbs as fat, it is not a huge difference in practice. If you eat more calories than you use, whether carbs, fat, or protein, it will be converted to fat and stored. It is that simple. That is why calorie density is such an incredibly useful tool and why in the studies, everyone eating beyond a certain average calorie density will gain weight. No if's, no but's, no except for carbs...just over a certain calorie density. And even there, bodily needs/metabolisms do differ and so some will need to go a bit lower calorie density. That is why the McDougall plate is flexible, between 1/2 and 1/3 carbs.

And of course, this all applies to "eating until satisfied", not "until stuffed to the limit".

Your commentary is confusing. Maybe you meant the McDougall plate is between 1/2 and 1/3 green and yellow vegetables (on the plate by eyeball)? The McDougall diet is very high in carbohydrates. I don't find the plate thing terribly helpful most of the time. Nor Jeff Novick's "sequencing of foods in meal" suggestion. Though I imagine many folks do. I just don't eat that way. I might have a salad for a meal or a soup or stew for a meal. I almost never have soup, salad and an additional plate of food divided into sections for a meal, plus fruit for dessert. Generally, I like to eat my food groups (vegetables, starches, fruits, beans, nuts/seeds) all at the same time. I'm a peasant.

I'm trying to imagine the amount of carbohydrates one would have to overeat in order to gain 20 pounds of body fat in one month, especially after having given up cheese and added oils.

https://www.drmcdougall.com/misc/2006nl/sept/sugar.htm
https://www.drmcdougall.com/misc/2009nl ... ionate.htm

I really don't think carbs turning to fat is the problem. And I don't think all of that added weight is fat. Do you?

This following one is way above my pay grade.
https://www.researchgate.net/publicatio ... ry_aspects

[GeoffreyLevens]

If 2/3 is veg then 1/3 would be starch

And yes, 20 lbs in one month is an astounding gain. Could be partly water, constipation, I have no idea. Almost certainly not all fat though. If it were me I would see a doctor immediately

As for grouping foods, I just eyeball amounts and toss it all together in a pot, heat and eat. I pretty much eat Jeff's SNAP meals except I use fresh veg, mostly beans as starch, and seldom tomatoes. Curry powder is my go to spicing for soupy stew with a piece of fruit on the side. I'm a peasant too!

[MikeyAus]

Thanks for the replies.

I'll get the Starch Solution book.

I'll pare back questionable foods, pasta, dry cereals, etc, and see how I go for another month, and likely report back in.

Is anyone doing strength training or High Intensity Interval Training on the Starch Solution ? (I do those practices)

Wheat bricks are 100% wheat, dried into rectangular prisms.

Perhaps eating a lot I eat too many calories, even of relatively low density foods like potatoes.

I will consume more vegetables.

People are eating just 3 pounds a day...?
Who are these people?
Mice?

I don't think the weight gain is all fat - some muscle gain (1kg?), some food baby/food in transit, some water weight...

The protein powder was greatly reduced over the month, to about a third of prior consumption.
Nuts were almost completely eliminated, down from one-to-two handfuls per week prior.

In short, I can't attribute the rapid weight gain to much except the increased volume of food, and
possibly excess calories.

I'll keep shifting in the direction of bulk,low calorie density foods, and try to keep it under the
threshold of 600 cal/lb.

I won't see a doctor at this stage.

Thanks again.

[GeoffreyLevens]

I work out 3 days/week with kettlebells, fairly heavy weight for me though I keep the overall intensity pretty moderate, sort of HIIT but with long rest between sets so not really that.

The other 4 I do some qi gong followed by Tai C'hi, then mobility work, core work, and then either a slow bicycle ride or walk for gently cardio. Whenever I feel like it I take a day completely off though usually I am wanting to get to it when I get up in the morning.

[AlwaysAgnes]

If 2/3 is veg then 1/3 would be starch

And yes, 20 lbs in one month is an astounding gain. Could be partly water, constipation, I have no idea. Almost certainly not all fat though. If it were me I would see a doctor immediately

As for grouping foods, I just eyeball amounts and toss it all together in a pot, heat and eat. I pretty much eat Jeff's SNAP meals except I use fresh veg, mostly beans as starch, and seldom tomatoes. Curry powder is my go to spicing for soupy stew with a piece of fruit on the side. I'm a peasant too!

I like tomatoes (they might even be my favorite fruit) and eat a good amount of them, but maybe not quite as much as Jeff Novick. Some of his recipes are a little tomato heavy for me. https://www.drmcdougall.com/pdf/Advance ... t_3-13.pdf Sometimes I feel like a tomato. Sometimes I don't.

Fresh vegs are best tasting to me, but in soups some frozen vegs are okay. For spices, I lean more toward Mexican or Italian flavors, but curry is okay too. I eat different style curries (Indian, Thai, Japanese).

My starches vary, and most times meals contain more than one kind of starch. I very rarely eat brown rice.

In general, I lean toward variety....except for beets. Red or yellow, doesn't matter, beets suck. I don't really like chard because it tastes like beets.


I don't think that the OP's 20 extra pounds is all fat either. Yay. We agree.

[Lyndzie]

Hi Mikey.

If I eat refined sweetners/sugar or breads with white flour, I end up feeling ravenous. Maybe the reason you are so hungry is because these items are causing you to want more food, instead of satiating you. You are eating an impressive amount of potatoes! I can only eat about a pound (1/2 kilo) in one meal.

Also, it has taken me over a year to fully figure out this program and implement it. Don't feel discouraged if the first month was bumpy. Give it time, and you will learn and figure it out.

Lyndzie

[MikeyAus]

Curry powder is my go to spicing for soupy stew

This idea gave me a blinding flash of the obvious - had wondered for a few days
how I was going to curry my lentil stews simply and with no oil...

Thank you.

[GeoffreyLevens]

People are eating just 3 pounds a day...?

I could not find that prior to you mentioning it. Where did you get that number? Maybe someone said they eat 3 pounds of green and yellow vegetables a day PLUS starch? That would be a huge amount of food if you go by the McDougall plate!

[GeoffreyLevens]

Thanks Agnes!