Laura Goes Veggie

[LauraVeg]

This will be my last post to the McDougall forums. I am grateful to Dr. McDougall for helping me find my path to health and to the members here who encouraged me. I started my search for better health and wellness about six years ago. I started with low carb. I ended up here. Does that mean McDougall is right for me? Yes. Does that mean it is the be all and end all of nutrition science? Not at all.

McDougall is not a religion to me. I am always open to new ideas. I also try to see the best in people and never to assume an evil motive for someone who does not see eye-to-eye with me. It really bothers me that there are people here whose minds are made up. There were some who posted on the China Study thread "As soon as she said I eat meat for health reasons, I stopped reading." Wow. How closed minded can one be? There are others who so believe that animal protein and fat are evil that they cannot even conceive of anything else.

Fat is not Satan. Meat is not Satan. They are foodstuffs. They are "macronutrients". There are studies that claim to prove that they cause disease. There are studies that show otherwise. This is science, not religion or superstition.

I am deeply offended by the type of close-mindedness and fear that would cause someone to malign a person based on his or her scientific claims. Dr. McDougall sells books, week-long seminars, and packaged foods. Dr. Atkins sold books and packaged foods as well. But, because people have been brainwashed to believe that FAT KILLS!!!, they ascribe good motives to Dr. McDougall, and bad ones to Dr. Atkins.

That is lazy, ignorant and childish thinking.

I have read - more than once - on this forum, that a low carb diet gives weak people an excuse to gorge themselves on meat and cheese. These people assume a moral superiority that they don't deserve. Take a peek at a low carb forum. The people there have given up many pleasures, like bread and potatoes. They could just as easily say, "Those McDougallers are just looking for an excuse to gorge themselves on potatoes and pasta and bread!"

I could probably try to turn a blind eye to the slurs against Dr. Atkins and low-carbers and continue to enjoy this forum, but my conscience won't let me. And I don't want to waste my time arguing on an internet forum. It's like wrestling with a pig in the mud. You both get dirty, and the pig enjoys it.

Thank you SO MUCH to the people here who have encouraged me on my McDougall path. My best wishes to you.

[Adele001]

Good on you for following your conscience.
It is easy to get so involved in this (or any) diet that you treat it like a religion. I am trying hard to keep it balanced enough so that I fully believe in it for me, but not that it would be the answer for everyone.
Congratulations on finding the right thing for you - and for managing to keep it balanced.

[f1jim]

I agree. It's important to follow our conscience. The inner voice that says you are on the right path or not. But words have meaning and what's the line between "following some diet like a religion" and following a diet because it seems to have the science and sense behind it. Is it important to make decisions about what we put in our mouths based on solidly believing the tenents of the program? Shouldn't we believe in something we choose to give ourselves and our family enough to recommend it to others? Certainly not to force it on someone, but to believe it can help them? To share our collective experiences in a forum like this with like minded people? To compare and contrast the ideas and thinking behind this program with other competing programs? We also make the motivations of companies, governments, and individuals, a topic when it might be relevant to the topic. I think those are valid things to question. Even an honest question of the motives of Dr. McDougall, Jeff Novick, and the others on staff here are fair game. Just how much importance do we place on our nutrition? Should it be a higher priority than the socks we wear? These are sometimes life and death decisions for many of us and can mean the difference between a health and hope filled life or misery and suffering.
I have come to discover their importance. I do believe strongly in what I have discovered. I, right or wrong, believe this is a healthy and nuturing way to eat for most people. I repeat, I couldn't and wouldn't demand anyone follow my chosen way to eat. But I'll probably spend a good bit of my life encouraging others to join me. Is that being dogmatic and "religious" in my efforts? If it is I'm guilty as charged and will proudly wear that label. I honestly don't believe the diets based on blood type, astrological sign, or even Atkins, are right for people. I think they are useless and possibly dangerous to our health. I'm convinced enough to share what I've learned and experienced with others and try to convince them. Sometimes it works, sometimes not. I do believe too much fat and protein can eventually kill. So can not enough. I don't hesitate to point out inconsistences in those competing nutrition ideologies. I guess one can view that as evil or uninformed. I think otherwise. But I also agree with following your conscience. I am glad you are following yours.
f1jim

[LauraVeg]

Well, I posted here on the McD forum twice in the last couple of days. I missed the sharing of info. But I will have to be strong and steer clear of any discussions of low carbing or Atkins. It just gets me aggravated and does nothing to change anyone else's mind.

I'll just try to eat my rice and vegetables and chill out. And let wrong people be wrong.

[f1jim]

And we are glad to have you back among the despicable, and deplorable. We, the wrong, welcome you.
f1jim

[LauraVeg]

And we are glad to have you back among the despicable, and deplorable. We, the wrong, welcome you.
f1jim

Good for you! You know what they say...admitting you have a problem is the first step. (Sorry...couldn't help it. I guess my conflict avoidance skills are still a little underdeveloped.)

[janluvs2heel]

Welcome back, LauraVeg,

I saw one of your posts, was wondering if you were on your way back.

Jan

[LauraVeg]

You say "let people be wrong". If we are wrong, or rather if Dr. McDougall is wrong, then why are you here?

If you read my "I'm leaving" post, above, you'd know what I meant by "wrong". That said...end of discussion, for me at least. I will not discuss low carb, Dr. Atkins, or anything related any further. Anything I have to say on the subject I have already said.

(ETA: If you would like more information, or a different perspective about the study you linked to, I'm sure a bit of googling would turn up some interesting information.)

[LauraVeg]

Welcome back, LauraVeg,

I saw one of your posts, was wondering if you were on your way back.

Jan

Thanks, Jan, for the welcome back. You're very kind. I always enjoy reading your posts. (Let's hope I don't need any more welcoming back, lol.)

[LauraVeg]

And I dont really need to do a google search of low carb. I know what it does and did to me.

I didn't suggest doing a search of low carb. I suggested doing a search on that particular study.

And, I must add, low carb was not good for me, either. But it is good for a lot of people and there is science to back it up. As I have said before, this is science, not religion. Scientific inquiry and open-mindedness are a good thing. If one is against meat consumption for ethical reasons, then fine...I have no argument with you. That is a more faith-based reason for following a vegan diet. But to close one's mind to any and all suggestions that something other than McDougall could possibly be as healthy or even healthier for some people is just wrong.

And I am sure you have seen this site, but for anyone else who is interested.

http://www.atkinsexposed.org/atkins/1/Atkins.htm

That site is nothing but silly, biased, sensationalism. It hasn't been updated since 2005, with good reason.

[LauraVeg]

Cripes...I give up. It's one thing to care about health and nutrition, and another to follow a particular diet with the blind faith of a religious zealot. Just because McDougall works for some people (INCLUDING ME!) does not mean anyone who espouses another diet (especially one that has proven to be a GODSEND for sick children and cancer victims) is evil incarnate!

I really thought I could rejoin the forum and not get goaded into arguments about lowcarb. I guess I was wrong.

[LauraVeg]

Hey, debbie. I respect that low carb was wrong for you. It was wrong for me, too. And I completely understand that people here are not sympathetic to low carbing. Understood. I would just like to see that old, outdated ideas about Atkins, long since proven wrong, are not perpetuated here or anywhere else.

There are people who might be helped by lowcarb, who shouldn't be scared away by myths.

I believe that different people need different diets. I believe that because I have tried them all. There are plenty of McDougallers who were unsuccessful. You don't see them posting here because they were probably told they were doing it wrong or simply drifted away. Same goes for low carbers. Read a low carb forum. There are people there who don't have success on low carb. There are also people there who were former vegans or former McDougallers and who are now thriving on low carb.

It's all good. Let's all just keep an open mind.

[LauraVeg]

I'm terrible at keeping a journal. I have no idea what to say. My diet doesn't change much from day to day...oh!...except that I had a green mango today. It wasn't unripe, it was supposed to be that color. And it was DELICIOUS.

I haven't weighed myself in weeks. I know I've lost weight because all my pants are loose. I should have lost more weight by now, but I eat off-plan a lot. My husband likes to eat out, and likes to eat meat. We go to steakhouses and BBQ joints all the time. One can only eat so many baked potatoes, lol. Plus, big starchy potatoes give me tummy troubles. So, I admit, I have had some meat over the last few weeks. And his favorite BBQ place serves delicious collard greens, but they're cooked in bacon.

My veganism is part health and part ethical. Both parts suffer when I eat meat.

When I eat at home, it's all good. Lots of brown rice, sweet potatoes, salads and fruit. I love fruit. I'm allergic to many types, but there are a lot that don't affect me. Bananas, mangoes and oranges are my favorites.

I should probably see my doctor eventually to find out what my numbers are like. I just hate doctors, though.

Uh oh...I just heard car doors. Company's here!

More tomorrow. (Maybe.)

[LauraVeg]

Time to come clean. My McDougall adherence, over the last two months, has been about 50%. Without going into a lot of detail and personal information, it was a horribly stressful and sad summer. For about three weeks I let myself eat whatever junk I wanted. I spent one awful week eating pizza and cake and drinking wine. (And I'm a gluten-intolerant non-drinker, lol.) While very bad for my body and ultimately counter-productive, it was, at the time, therapeutic. And I'm glad I allowed myself that indulgence.

It was hard getting back on track. I've learned a lot. Mostly that there is no downside to eating McDougall. That I never feel bad while or immediately after eating McDougall food. That my moods are better eating lowfat vegan. I also sleep better, have no GERD symptoms, don't feel depressed (I'm still sad, but not that insulin/hormonal sadness I used to get after eating something like pancakes), and my heart doesn't pound after a meal like it used to.

I also remembered something that made me laugh. Before McDougalling, I used to read the Star McDougaller testimonials, and many posts here, by people who always said "And I really LOVE the food" and I would say, "Yeah, sure ya do." But you know what? I really LOVE the food! Not just because it tastes great (which it does) but because I feel great after eating it and I never had that before in my life. There was always some kind of price to pay after eating, but no more.

[afreespirit]

I too used to suffer those scary physiological effects after a SAD meal, like elevated heart rate, sleepiness, mood elevation followed by depression, thirst, insatiable hunger after a few hours, etc. No more. Keep it up LauraVeg, you can do this! You ARE doing it!