Ever use chocolate chips?

[Mom+Me]

Hi there,

As I just mentioned in my last post to the "eating ? for long-term McDougallers" thread, everything was going excellently for months until I decided to throw a handful of semi-sweet (vegan) chocolate chips into my totally compliant banana bread. The unbaked chip I sampled disgusted me by its waxiness. But, when I sampled the bread as it was still slightly warm, I found the gooey/soft chips much more appealing.

Even though our home is almost McDougall complaint, there still are some vegetarian items that are not McDougall approved. I've done well with not eating them, but these chips in the bread led to a slight downfall for me. The "funny" thing is, as I read the label and it said "cocoa butter", I even thought, "Yuck...that's something I'd put on my lips, not in my arteries!".

Even though Mary occasionally uses such chips in her recipes, do you ever? If not, is it for health (not wanting the fat in your body) and/or is it so it doesn't open you up for temptation (which inadvertently, if it gets out of hand can lead to a health problem)?

Thank you!

[Idgie]

I'm lucky, I don't like chocolate, but my position on off-plan foods is that I will wait until I'm at my ideal weight and then start introducing them one at a time and see if I can stay looking/feeling the way I want. For me, those foods are:

avocados (miss them!)
pasta
bread
nuts/olives

I will probably never reintroduce soy or oil -- I don't digest soy too well any more, and oil is dangerous.

[Jobet]

My son just recently converted my SAD chocolate chip banana bread into vegan, using the vegan chocolate chips. I ate a piece at their home. It was delicious and I wasn't worried about it as I won't be making it in my own home. If they have the bars when I'm there, I'll probably eat one as I only visit with them once or twice per month. I had no problem with it tempting me to crave or anything like that.

[colonyofcells]

Small amounts of high fat foods like cacao, soy, nuts, seeds, avocado, olives, etc. are allowed in the dr mcdougall diet. Can use carob as a substitute for cacao. There is also 0 fat cocoa powder where fat has been removed.

[JeffN]

Small amounts of high fat foods like cacao, soy, nuts, seeds, avocado, olives, etc. are allowed in the dr mcdougall diet. Can use carob as a substitute for cacao. There is also 0 fat cocoa powder where fat has been removed.

There is no "fat free" cocoa powder. It is just marketing and labeling tricks the companies play. I discussed it in several threads. Here was the most recent

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=58293

In regard to the "chips," they are not just very high fat, they are also very high saturated fat as the fat in them these days is almost always coconut, oil or palm kernel.

In Health
Jeff

[AlwaysAgnes]

Hi there,

As I just mentioned in my last post to the "eating ? for long-term McDougallers" thread, everything was going excellently for months until I decided to throw a handful of semi-sweet (vegan) chocolate chips into my totally compliant banana bread. The unbaked chip I sampled disgusted me by its waxiness. But, when I sampled the bread as it was still slightly warm, I found the gooey/soft chips much more appealing.

Even though our home is almost McDougall complaint, there still are some vegetarian items that are not McDougall approved. I've done well with not eating them, but these chips in the bread led to a slight downfall for me. The "funny" thing is, as I read the label and it said "cocoa butter", I even thought, "Yuck...that's something I'd put on my lips, not in my arteries!".

Even though Mary occasionally uses such chips in her recipes, do you ever? If not, is it for health (not wanting the fat in your body) and/or is it so it doesn't open you up for temptation (which inadvertently, if it gets out of hand can lead to a health problem)?

Thank you!

I do use them occasionally. But I think any food that is a problem is better eliminated.

I do use chocolate chips now and then in banana muffins, but these days I really prefer using walnuts. (Not that I bake muffins that often, because I'm very lazy. ) When I use them, the chips I use are Guittard extra dark chocolate baking chips. The ingredients are cacao beans, sugar, sunflower lecithin and vanilla. A 15g serving (30 chips) has 5g fat, with 3g being sat fat. When I use these I put a scant 1/2 cup in a recipe that makes 12 muffins. (No, I haven't done the math or counted out how many chips are in a scant 1/2 cup. ) Whenever I make them, I might eat one or maybe two of those muffins. The family eats the rest. I also used to make them with cocoa powder and choc chips. My girls really like those muffins best, but I can't remember when I last did that.

Truth be told, I'd much rather see my family eating my vegan banana muffins made with cocoa powder and choc chips than see them eat the chocolate-chocolate chip muffins from the store bakery. Those things really are deadly calorie bombs.

There's a continuum of evil, dontcha know.

[colonyofcells]

Probably better to use some high fat foods only after weight loss has been achieved. Many healthy foods like soy, nuts and seeds are unfortunately high fat foods. According to Dr Mcdougall, Trim healthy people can use these rich ingredients in small amounts.

[JeffN]

I do use them occasionally. But I think any food that is a problem is better eliminated.

I do use chocolate chips now and then in banana muffins, but these days I really prefer using walnuts. (Not that I bake muffins that often, because I'm very lazy. ) When I use them, the chips I use are Guittard extra dark chocolate baking chips. The ingredients are cacao beans, sugar, sunflower lecithin and vanilla. A 15g serving (30 chips) has 5g fat, with 3g being sat fat. When I use these I put a scant 1/2 cup in a recipe that makes 12 muffins. (No, I haven't done the math or counted out how many chips are in a scant 1/2 cup. ) Whenever I make them, I might eat one or maybe two of those muffins. The family eats the rest. I also used to make them with cocoa powder and choc chips. My girls really like those muffins best, but I can't remember when I last did that.

In the days gone past, most were made with oils/fats that were not as saturated but with the trend of tropical oils, that has changed. However, the were still high in fat and calorie dense.

From the official product label and the math.

- the product is 64% fat
- it is almost 40% saturated (and that’s without an added tropical oil)
- is is about 2100 calories/lb.
- there is about 1000 calories per cup.

This means a "scant" 1/2 cup is about 500 calories.

Truth be told, I'd much rather see my family eating my vegan banana muffins made with cocoa powder and choc chips than see them eat the chocolate-chocolate chip muffins from the store bakery. Those things really are deadly calorie bombs.

If we did the math, there is probably little difference between the store bought ones and the home-made vegan ones. I'd be glad to do the analysis if you give me your recipe.

My guess is that your girls are not trying to lose weight and/or recover their health as are most forum members here.

I added in a second label reading class at the 10-day and most of it is dedicated to reviewing all the vegan junk in the stores.

There's a continuum of evil

Putting The Continuum of Evil in perspective

viewtopic.php?f=22&t=54512

A few years go, Dr McDougall stopped talking about feast days and meals because he said most all the people who come to the program can't get away with them. Soon as they hear he allows them, they start including them and the next thing you know, they are showing up every day.

We have also removed all "fancy" desserts from the 10-Day program and from any of the cooking classes for the same reason. The OP’s experience is exactly why.

People come to us to lose weight and recover their health and we really need to give them the best advice for that.

In Health
Jeff

[Lyndzie]

Today I went to my monthly WFPB pitch in and brought the Engine 2 Adonis cake. Melted chocolate chips are in the frosting. I use Guittard Extra Dark chocolate chips that Agnes mentioned.

The cake got rave reviews. I did not even get to try a piece! As Jeff mentioned, these will not help you get into your skinny jeans.

[JeffN]

As Jeff mentioned, these will not help you get into your skinny jeans.

Or even your regular/normal size ones either.

Considering 80% of Americans are overweight/obese, with extreme obesity the fastest growing category, and weight management being a major concern of the majority of people who come to see us &/or post here, and that the vegan CRAP category is one of the fastest growing categories in the supermarkets, this is an important issue to keep in mind.

In Health
Jeff

[JeffN]

From the link above on the "continuum of evil" ...

So, what is the problem with a 5 tier or a 7 tier or any of the other rating/ranking systems? (Ie, Continuum's)

As noted in all the critiques I posted above, they sort of bless, allow and give permission to unhealthy foods.

And as a friend who struggled for years said to me once, it is "the beginning of the end."

...

The problem comes in when you tell someone, oh yeah, that healthy vegan brownie is "better" then that traditional brownie, and it is OK to have once in a while and (as human nature is), they think, oh, well, since it is healthier, I can have it more often. And the small brownie once a week turns into a larger portion several times a week. At this point (again), it won't matter if it is the healthy vegan brownie or the traditional brownie because now, due to the increased portion and frequency, both will have a negative impact on your numbers.

....

Not only have I witnessed this 1000's of times, we see it here all the time in these forums. People struggle to achieve their goals and when they take a close look at their diet, they see, there are too many foods that may be allowed (C, D, E etc) but not ideal (A, B).

That is why many can't find success till they go on the MWL program (or some other stricter version of the program). The MWL is pretty black and white about what is allowed. Almost everything is an A with a few B's. There are no exceptions to it either. The regular program has a lot of gray area (C and Ds and maybe Es). And, for many, the little becomes a lot.

Remember, it is not so much the brownie, its the permission to use it and the apparent blessing of it.

Your personal experience may be different. And if it is, and you are successful managing all of this and navigating the lower ends of the continuum of evil, more power to you. Some people can have one small brownie a week and not look back. Most of us here can't. That's how we got here.

But if you are the exception, have mercy on those that can't and understand almost 80% of American have shown they can't either. And for many who do come here, our percent is probably higher because we are self selected and have volunteered to be here.

In Heath
Jeff

[Mom+Me]

Hello, thank you everyone for your replies! I didn't know at first that I posted this thread to the wrong Board category (The Lounge). Thank you to whoever put it in this proper category.

Idgie--Yes, if I ever wanted a higher fat food, it would be avocado/guacamole or nuts for me, not chocolate. So, I was surprised that it "got" me. By the way, as part of the downward spiral, I did have a few nuts + a slice of avocado. Guess what? You're not missing anything! I found the avocado quite bland (it's the garlic + salt that always made it extra tasty for me) + I didn't like the fatty feeling in my mouth. Same with the nuts. Even though the fat was from a pure whole food, the oil in the nut no longer appealed to me. ... I like your plan for reintroduction.

Jobet--Congratulations on enjoying your converted recipe your son made + it not leading you to further temptation; that's great!

colonyofcells--Yes, thank you; I know that the higher fat foods are permissible in small amounts for those who have reached their ideal weight + health. Unfortunately, I don't yet fit either of those categories, + should not be eating them at all.

Always Agnes--Yes! That was the very reason I decided to throw that handful of chips in in the first place. I wanted to help my family to feel satisfied with this "treat" so they'd feel less inclined to indulge when they're away from home. Kind of backfired.

Lyndzie--It's neat that you get to socialize with like-minded people in regard to food. Congratulations on not even trying the cake you made!

Jeff--Thank you for your responses throughout this thread (+ all the many, many posts throughout the years on the Board. Your time + wisdom + the way you share it are so very appreciated!) ... Yes, I remember Wonderslim from back in the day. Interesting/sad that it was falsely labeled. Makes me think that I really shouldn't eat anything from a package! ... I know carob powder was mentioned. Any thoughts on that? ... I no longer have the label from the chips I used, but I distinctly remember that the fat was from cocoa butter. Two people mentioned using Guittard, but that contains sunflower lecithin. It sounds like the lecithin might be less saturated than the cocoa butter? ... I will read the Continuum of Evil thread as soon as possible; it looks fascinating! ... Thank you for letting us know that Dr. McDougall no longer talks about feast days nor serves "fancy" desserts at the 10-day Program. Yes, ideal health + weight are what I desire, too. The quickest + most truthful ways to get there are best--plain + simple!

[Idgie]

Mom+Me, I am finding that fruit tastes almost too sweet, but fatty foods on the rare occasion that I eat them still taste DELICIOUS. I think it might be a while before they taste too greasy for me. I'm willing to keep staying compliant for long enough that hopefully it won't ever be an issue, or if it is, and I do eat a fried food again, I hope it's been long enough to make it unappealing to me.

[Mom+Me]

Mom+Me, I am finding that fruit tastes almost too sweet, but fatty foods on the rare occasion that I eat them still taste DELICIOUS. I think it might be a while before they taste too greasy for me. I'm willing to keep staying compliant for long enough that hopefully it won't ever be an issue, or if it is, and I do eat a fried food again, I hope it's been long enough to make it unappealing to me.

Yes! I find most fruits to be super sweet, and they taste like candy/dessert. My thinking is that, since I've been filled with carbs, a lot of them being potatoes, I really haven't been even having a taste for fruit. As far as the fattier foods go, everyone is different. I remember when they still tasted very good to me, too. Maybe you'll eventually find them less appealing, or maybe you won't. The main thing is that you're in control of your eating and not letting it control you. Great job! As far as fried foods (or any others) go, sometimes we just have to keep reminding ourselves how toxic they are for us rather than depending on changed taste buds. We're all in this journey together.

[Idgie]

Yep! As my co-workers say, Teamwork makes the dream work! (which is funny, because it's the most contentious, least teamwork-oriented "team" I've ever worked with)