a path for self-integration?

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a path for self-integration?

Postby f00die » Sun Feb 18, 2018 6:34 am

here's dr. lisle talking to chef aj: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBDMZpPMy-0
defining esteem, self-confidence, and self-esteem
ive listened to dr. lisle many times
but this video kinda had a different impact
like he hit out the park, into orbit, and hit me in the head as i was floating out there in space
as i realised that acting in congruence with my internal audience
is a practice that can lead to self-integration.
in tantric terms, where the path is the goal
aligning with my internal audience is self-integration

the internal audience is has many members
ill refer to them as the devils, the angels, and the lessons they teach - 3 groups
the lessons being our various experiences,
our memories themselves of what happened, what we did, how it felt, and the real consequences
with the lessons being the main things we are integrating
the devils and angels possess us, with our cooperation, and empower us to do things
which we experience with them and later remember

the devils teach you what not to do
in a very real sense they are madness itself - insane spirits
they revel in melded experiences of ecstasy and profound torture
like maximizing dopamine release as described in the pleasure trap
and then feeling bad about it
and then repeating that over and over gain
damaging one's body, one's relationships etc
and feeling bad about it
then repeating the behaviors again and again
ans being seemingly unable to stop
relapsing, going off plan even though we the bad things that happen
the siren's call is at times irresistible
eventually, if one doesnt die in the process, one gets to recognize these guys (i see 'em comin', i hear 'em comin')
and we learn the lesson: dont do what the devils are gleefully and ravenously suggesting.
the scars of our dalliances with them remain
most precisely, the devils want you to reject their offers
they suffer the agony with you and they know the ecstasy is not worth it
in a sense you are their master and they hatch hare-brained schemes that are tempting
but really they want you to refuse. its why they are mad - insane.

the angels teach you what to do
they lead to health, to peace, to real well-being and profound beatitude
anything that is a good idea that ends up with good results, that is these guys teaching
saving, sacrificing to take care of our kids, trying the mcdougall plan out etc.
good stuff.
eventually one learns to distinguish the angels and the devils. its not easy at first.
the devils being substantially more attractive to the senses
the angels are actually beautiful. in real terms. one has to learn what beauty is.
the lesson here is to follow the angels

we have different experiences over time
the feedback we get from our internal audience is shaped by what we think is good and what we think is bad
and this varies as we accumulate different lessons
gaining the approval of the internal audience
maximally integrates our wisdom, these lessons of what not to do, and what to do

so when i find myself off plan in the many different ways we can go astray
sitting in front of a pizza, wings and 2 liter of mountain dew
full intending to eat all that and smoke a cigar afterward
integrating our experiences, by playing for the approval of our internal audience
congruence with our lessons:
which means dont follow the devils. if you see them its a sign not to continue on this path
and follow the angel. if you see them, it means keep going, no matter the difficulty
can rescue us from these kinds of scenarios:

damn, i really shouldnt do this
but are we going to throw all this food away?
we know we should
but we paid for it already
but its trash and should be in the trash anyway
plus it will definitely harm you
its a mistake, chalk it and let it go
but its only a small mistake
even dr. lisle has said the impact of any 1 meal is negligible in the course of a life
its the overall pattern that matters
go on and get this one in. its not major. and you know it.
a cheat day. right? right?

or you've poured yourself a glass of juice
but its orange juice, high in vit C
surely you are not going to pour this out.
its such a small deal. c'mon man, really?

by playing to our internal audience, we integrate our experiences
and live whatever little wisdom
we have accumulated thus far

just my thoughts,
im very grateful
aj called him brilliant
i agree
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Re: a path for self-integration?

Postby f00die » Sun Feb 25, 2018 11:08 am

lately i have been processing the feelings i get
when turn down adding oil, or butter or cream to food
or use less sugar or less salt
or turn down a meatzza, or refuse to drink soda
basically when i turn down an opportunity to add richness to my diet

ive always associated expensive ingredients with success and accomplishment
the stuff that is acknowledged to taste good by gourmets
kerrygold dairy products, lobster tails, sirloin, mangalista pork, live goats bought at auction then butchered etc.
so there's a distinct feeling of "down-grade" (i even sometimes hear that word in my head)
when im eating plain boiled beans, plain boiled potatoes, earthy-tasting stuff.
however, many many mornings i find i comment to myself how good i feel.
i'm actually surprised that its "better than yesterday" when i thought yesterday was
"can't complain" level decent.
nowadays my body is so quiet. no heartburn, no weird feelings, regular, limited insanity, not tired etc.
decently comfortable to be in.

im reminded of some verses in the christian bible
James 4:10: Humble yourselves in the sight of the Lord, and he shall lift you up.
matthew 23:12: And whosoever shall exalt himself shall be abased; and he that shall humble himself shall be exalted.
luke 14:11:For everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted.

feeling like crap, genuinely doubting the value of further existence,
that stuff is really humbling.

but a platter of 14 boiled potatoes eaten throughout the day
im like wow, cant beat reality, nature
and the results of eating what we evolved eating.
what we are supposed to be eating.
my thanks to dr. McD for belabouring the point all these years
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Re: a path for self-integration?

Postby calvin » Sun Feb 25, 2018 4:37 pm

Message in "Oh God" starring George Burns: "You have everything you need to make it work. It's up to you."

When I'm tempted lately, I think "would giving in be a step closer to my goal?"
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Re: a path for self-integration?

Postby f00die » Tue Feb 27, 2018 10:31 am

sometimes it'll be garbled
in a past life i learned that there are times when we need to be taught how to see
especially when our prior understanding is maladaptive
but the instincts of that prior understanding are influencing our perceptions
of the new understandings we are trying to integrate.

like the feeling of downgrade
its only a downgrade in the terms of the old ways
in the new healthier path,
downgrade is actually the pointer, the signpost showing the way out of the miasma
that envelopes our judgment as we attempt to find our way back to the path
or we encounter a place we havent been before or have forgotten

its why i'll add beans to my plate instead of cabbage.
coz beans feel like the downgrade (in terms of weightloss)
but ive noticed, if i dont eat enough on one day
crap shines way more attractively the next day
if i persist with the "discipline" of lighter eating
a spontaneous and unpredictable(in content and length) binge occurs

so while i may not understand specifically why
the feeling of downgrade leads
and it integrates the many lessons ive learned
all in one signal
leading me to pick juice instead of water sometimes
and water instead of juice at other times
but the the end result is less bingeing.
more days where what i do makes sense
in the context of the healthy behaviors im trying to
practice
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finding the agony again

Postby f00die » Sat Mar 10, 2018 3:53 pm

renewing the pain
dr. lisle talked about how pain motivates compliance
others here have talked about
the "gun to the head" of serious chronic disease, imminent surgery etc.
or even the psychological pressure: "need for weightloss"
but eventually, the pain subsides, we lose the weight, our numbers get better
we become less fearful, we forget.
it is going great. it's literally awesome.
but

theres a bone-in pork roast sizzling in the oven
smelling up the house, (honey & rosemary)
maybe a slab of home-cooked pork with rice and greens, how about it, no?
no harm, no foul.
youve been doing so well
a feeling of satisfaction with how your clothes fit flashes in memory
next thing you know,
it's served up sitting in front of you (salted mcdougall style, for good measure)
its not looking good
we are about to have a "controlled" slip (oh, the agony)
it is useful take a moment to feel this perversity fully
this is the pain that corrects
im now afraid of what will happen
what if i eat more pork tomorrow?
what happens to my adherence
elevate this internal conflict

and suddenly the plate doesnt look so appetizing
its a promise of suffering (i can feel the oily heartburn already)
this fear and consternation we feel now is just a taste
its why we eat starch.
to avoid these kinds of ruminative loops (am i talking to myself, again? yes you are)

wrap that meat up for later.
not this meal, or the next, maybe never.
but certainly, not now.

i saw somewhere, someone advocate missing a meal altogether
instead of eating something non-compliant
"that's just too aggressive", "and rather mentally painful to do that to myself voluntarily"

thats how we find the pain again
the "redemptive suffering"
the agony that heals
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Re: a path for self-integration?

Postby AlwaysAgnes » Sat Mar 10, 2018 7:16 pm

Pernil al horno used to be a favorite before I watched Earthlings. Now the sight of a pork shoulder or roast pork turns my stomach. I still love the smell of garlic and oregano, though. I'm grateful that I no longer crave dead animal flesh, but I don't think everyone who watches Earthlings has the same reaction.
You don't have to wait to be happy.
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Re: a path for self-integration?

Postby f00die » Sun Mar 11, 2018 12:06 am

AlwaysAgnes wrote:...
I'm grateful that I no longer crave dead animal flesh, but I don't think everyone who watches Earthlings has the same reaction.

i grew up close to the land
my family had animals
i think i slaughtered and dressed my first chicken at age 8 or so
my siblings and i had pet animals that we killed and ate when the time came
the idea that animals are food
is deeply rooted in my conception of "the natural order"
as my nephew recently said to me
"why care about animals? they have no souls."

when i watch earthlings im more concerned that the practices
are dirty, sloppy
there could be cleaner and more efficient methods

dr. mcd stating that starch is the proper food
the evolved diet of humans
is novel for me. so far the results have borne that out
im willing to eat plants instead of animals
as an application of better nutritional knowledge

however the necessity of taking a B12 pill
says to me that meat has a natural place
in the ancestral diet.
dr. lisle has said veganism is a "superior" diet
compared to the natural diets.
im just not there yet
i wanna see many old healthy vegans first.
its happening. and thats why im here

but my innate instincts remain.
animals are prey.
break glass in case of emergency.
they say we dont have claws and sharp canines,
what we have is a brain
that has taken predation to another level entirely:
we are farmers. we grow food.

im trying to practice that plants are the superior sources of nutrients.
work in progress
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Re: a path for self-integration?

Postby AlwaysAgnes » Sun Mar 11, 2018 3:06 am

f00die wrote:
AlwaysAgnes wrote:...
I'm grateful that I no longer crave dead animal flesh, but I don't think everyone who watches Earthlings has the same reaction.

i grew up close to the land
my family had animals
i think i slaughtered and dressed my first chicken at age 8 or so
my siblings and i had pet animals that we killed and ate when the time came
the idea that animals are food
is deeply rooted in my conception of "the natural order"
as my nephew recently said to me
"why care about animals? they have no souls."

when i watch earthlings im more concerned that the practices
are dirty, sloppy
there could be cleaner and more efficient methods

dr. mcd stating that starch is the proper food
the evolved diet of humans
is novel for me. so far the results have borne that out
im willing to eat plants instead of animals
as an application of better nutritional knowledge

however the necessity of taking a B12 pill
says to me that meat has a natural place
in the ancestral diet.
dr. lisle has said veganism is a "superior" diet
compared to the natural diets.
im just not there yet
i wanna see many old healthy vegans first.
its happening. and thats why im here

but my innate instincts remain.
animals are prey.
break glass in case of emergency.
they say we dont have claws and sharp canines,
what we have is a brain
that has taken predation to another level entirely:
we are farmers. we grow food.

im trying to practice that plants are the superior sources of nutrients.
work in progress


My father was a hunter. There was no shortage of animals' blood and guts in my childhood, but I don't think I got his killer/hunter gene. I don't think I'd want to kill an animal in order to eat it unless I were starving. Even then, I have some doubts. Survival instinct (kill or be killed) would have to take over in order for me myself and I to kill a bird or mammal. I think I could probably kill a fish, though, or bugs. I readily kill bugs that invade my space, except for crickets, but not with the idea of eating them. (I don't think meat was a huge part in ancestral diets in most cultures. Meat was a hunger stop-gap and a feast/celebration food. Sometimes animal sacrifice was used for religious rituals, and people ate the meat. Most people didn't eat so much of it every day the way they do now in the modern world.) I don't look at animals and think "prey" any more than I look at my neighbors and think "prey." I don't look at my cat or tortoise and think "prey." Maybe I'm broken.

If everyone had to raise and slaughter or hunt his own animals for meat, do you think people would eat more or less meat than they do now? I want to say they'd eat less, but then I watch Alaska the last frontier and wonder again. Then again, Charlotte has stayed vegetarian on the homestead. http://www.discovery.com/tv-shows/alask ... e-kilcher/

https://quatr.us/religion/animal-sacrif ... ligion.htm
You don't have to wait to be happy.
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Re: a path for self-integration?

Postby f00die » Sun Mar 18, 2018 1:17 pm

given the extreme ease of going off-plan
and my ongoing effort to reduce exceptions
improve starch alignment
im always looking for more robust simpler ways of implementing
starch based eating

the 90% starch by eyeball thing has been working well.
i look forward to a meal of starch more
than before when i was concerned about "balancing" the starch with veggies.
i still eat fruits as snacks and veggies as garnishes for the starch.
the starches are mixed: rice+oats, corn+rice, beans+corn, beans+rice etc.
this simplicity of concentrating on the 90% starch
has resulted in fewer exceptions occurring
its just easier/less to think about when serving food
and theres less doubt in my mind
that the satisfying meal im having
is also a "correct" meal.

but i still struggle with thoughts of lack of confidence
a desires for "more variety" into the 5 meats
focusing on what not to eat has not lead to as much success
as focusing on what to eat.
"no fried chicken" works much worse than "eat more starch"

i saw this thread viewtopic.php?f=1&t=50910
and the daily starch targets checklist.
i think im gonna try to implement a 21 plates of 90% starch per week checklist
to see if exceptions can be further reduced.

the path is the goal
adherence is success
we improve compliance by complying.
the more often we pass the plate-test
the healthier our dietary pattern is.
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Re: a path for self-integration?

Postby LakeConroePenny » Mon Mar 19, 2018 10:16 am

AlwaysAgnes wrote:. Now the sight of a pork shoulder or roast pork turns my stomach. I still love the smell of garlic and oregano, though.

Leviticus 11 tells us not to eat pork or any scavengers on land, sea or in the air. God knew what he was saying! Too many people think they have fibromyalgia, but autopsies have discovered that they had pork worms in their muscles.
Happy Tails and Trails, Penny
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Re: a path for self-integration?

Postby AlwaysAgnes » Mon Mar 19, 2018 12:20 pm

LakeConroePenny wrote:
AlwaysAgnes wrote:. Now the sight of a pork shoulder or roast pork turns my stomach. I still love the smell of garlic and oregano, though.

Leviticus 11 tells us not to eat pork or any scavengers on land, sea or in the air. God knew what he was saying! Too many people think they have fibromyalgia, but autopsies have discovered that they had pork worms in their muscles.
Happy Tails and Trails, Penny




I'm not sure how to respond to that, so I pulled these from the bowels of the internet.

http://www.medicalmedium.com/blog/paras ... ths-truths
https://www.ministrymagazine.org/archiv ... h-of-swine
https://www.cai.org/bible-studies/pig-and-you
https://www.myjewishlearning.com/articl ... the-bible/
http://cmr.asm.org/content/15/4/595.full
https://quatr.us/food-2/history-pigs-pork-bacon.htm
http://www.dartagnan.com/history-of-pigs-and-pork.html "Although the Jewish and Islamic faiths forbid eating pork, it has the distinction of being the most eaten meat by humanity."


http://www.dictionary.com/browse/self-integration


:mrgreen:
You don't have to wait to be happy.
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Re: a path for self-integration?

Postby f00die » Sun Mar 25, 2018 6:12 am

so, i was gonna respond with a polemic against leviticus 11 etc.
after reading all them links on worms pulled from the bowels (thx agnes)
i had no idea the full extent of possible parasites
rather eye-opening
raw meat is scary.
then i thought about about it and decided to see what can be learned
from dietary rules and proscriptions regardless of their source
more helpful, more useful

so, when im doing something that i must get right
like driving
i follow the rules closely.
i dont go by "feel", or "my gut"
or my intuition.
i submissively do everything im supposed to as well as i can

i think that approach can be very helpful when eating.
a lot of the exceptions that occur for me are because of
convenience: it's there, ill just have a bite, or a serving etc.
when im driving i dont just cross the median coz i can
so why is eating, a vastly more consequential activity,
subject to deviations on whim?

leviticus 11 to the rescue: stringency.
the rules in there are arbitrary: no lobster tails or king crab legs (is life worth living without them?)
but the rules inform a whole culture and identity
a long-lasting culture. (hebrew national hot dogs, huh?)
a visceral way of defining "who am i"
by the food choices i make.

the healthy food choice guidelines here are much the same
they define the healthy, energetic me
unlike some other guidelines
these ones work to deliver really excellent body-comfort (my deep metric for doing anything, truly)
theres really no comparison.
so why am i messing around with "inspiration" (oh, this whatever looks great! that must mean im meant to eat it.)
yknow, its meant to be, the universe has conspired
to bring us here together, today. :lol:

but i dont do that with anything that i must get right.
in those situations, i follow the manual closely
and ignore my "instincts" "inspirations" "intuitions" (gonna pass this slowpoke using the middle lane or the shoulder!).
if its worth doing, its worth doing right.
rules are better instincts
submission is better than inspiration
on the path to getting it together
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Re: a path for self-integration? white rabbit

Postby f00die » Mon Apr 02, 2018 11:19 am

A young aspirant to holiness asked his teacher, “Why is it that some who seek God come to the desert and are zealous in prayer but leave after a year or so, while others, like you, remain faithful to the quest for a lifetime?”

The old man smiled and answered, “One day I was sitting here quietly in the sun with my dog. Suddenly a large white rabbit ran across in front of us. Well, my dog jumped up, and barked loudly, took off after the rabbit with a passion. Soon other dogs joined him, attracted by his barking. The pack of dogs ran barking across the creeks, up stony embankments and through the thickets and thorns. Gradually, however, one by one, the other dogs dropped out of the pursuit, discouraged by the course and frustrated by the chase. Only my dog continued to hotly pursue the white rabbit.”

The young man sat in confused silence, and finally said, “I don’t understand.”

The old man replied, “Unless you see the prey, the chase is just too difficult . . . you must see the rabbit!”

so, i was contemplating this story and trying to relate it to
adherence to a healthy dietary pattern
and to see if ive "seen the white rabbit"
or if im just following a fad
so far, the benefits that keep me coming back meal after meal:
- feeling satisfaction after eating the food (this alone may be the rabbit)
- gut works properly/as advertised
- reduction in cravings across the board
- less regret subsequent to rejecting bad ideas
- rejecting bad ideas is less painful (the value of this benefit is incalculable)
im sure there are others
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