Jumpstart wrote:Jeff,
Have you run across any actual studies that show eating greens six times a day increases nitric oxide production. I've found studies for many types of food that show this result but I can't seem to find even one involving greens. What I have found is stuff that talks about what should happen in the body in theory but no actual studies that test that theory. I started this tread in the lounge but I haven't had anyone come up with an actual result. You're my last hope.
Thanks.
I appreciate this question as it gives me the opportunity to once again reinforce the notion of *wholism* over *reductionism*, something that seems to becoming more prevalent even in the WFPB world.
Before I give my direct response, a few things to put it in perspective...
First, let's remember the principle I explained in the thread on "When No Risk Means High Risk and High Benefit Means No Benefit."
viewtopic.php?f=22&t=43681And this one on High Quality Foods
viewtopic.php?f=22&t=28413If you have not read them lately, I would really recommend reading them in their entirety again.
Many of these studies are being done on populations and subjects who are not consuming a healthy low fat diet based on a predominance of minimally processed plants so the results need to be put in proper perspective and context and/or do not directly apply. Few Americans eat minimally processed plants so their current intake of plant nitrates is very low where as anyone following the principles we recommend here, already has a much higher intake, some even higher than the amounts used therapeutically in these studies.
This report helps make that point and I recommend reading the full paper. As you can see, anyone including lots of plants as we recommend is already easily consuming quite a bit or plant nitrates *throughout the day*, and many can easily surpass the therapeutic dose used in some studies.
http://www.efsa.europa.eu/en/scdocs/doc/689.pdfIt will also highlight that greens are not the only plant food high in nitrate and even some plants thought of as low quality (i.e., iceberg lettuce) is actually higher in nitrate content then kale.
From the link on High Quality Foods
the average nitrate level in curly kale was 537 mg/kg -- but iceberg lettuce was 875 mg/kg, leaving kale in the dust!
Second, while I think the intake of green leafy veggies and especially cruciferous veggies is important, and should be a regular part of our diet, I am not as enthusiastic in insisting it has to be 6x a day.
I tried to clarify this here, with a recent interview with Dr Esselstyn on the subject...
http://www.jeffnovick.com/RD/Q_%26_As/E ... ponds.htmlIn regard to eating "kale" 6x a day.
"I recommend greens (which includes broccoli, cauliflower, bok-choy, Swiss chard, kale, collards, beet greens, mustard greens, turnip greens, Napa cabbage, Brussels, sprouts, broccoli, cauliflower, cilantro, parsley, spinach, arugula, etc) 6 times a day for those specific people who have significant cardiovascular issues, especially angina. I have never said "kale" itself 6 times a day but "greens," as in the jingle. Six times a day is not for everyone though it would be good for everyone to include greens in their diets as much as possible. Not just a few spinach leaves."
And in regard to the study in Okinawa on the impact of eating greens, which Dr Esselstyn will often reference in regard to his "mantra:, I analyzed that here so we can see what they actually ate and how much to get the benefit
viewtopic.php?f=22&t=28413#p377385The difference in the intervention was 129 grams (169-40), which is 4.5 ounces and the difference in the total was 155 grams (356-201), which is 5.5 ounces. These amounts are the equivalent of about 2 servings.
Lastly, in regard to the "6x a day" principle...
While I understand why Dr Esselstyn uses it as a "mantra," (like with the cholesterol of 150) we also have to put it in proper perspective.
While some pharmacological treatments must be given multiple times a day, (insulin, etc), many are not, as their impact is much longer term than a few hours. Some actually last days. So, is the impact of nitrates on our endothelium, blood flow, BP, etc, short term or long term.
As we can see in these studies, when given as a "treatment," the effect last for many hours, in some of these studies, 4-6 hours or more and the overall impact may last for days.
http://www.atherosclerosis-journal.com/article/S0021-9150(13)00517-0/abstracthttp://jap.physiology.org/content/107/4/1144And one of the main companies who is selling a supplement created from all the above studies, has just 420 mg in a a dose, which is recommended once per day.
http://www.neogenis.com/neo40-daily.htmlRemember, as I said above, "anyone including lots of plants as we recommend is already easily consuming quite a bit or plant nitrates *throughout the day.*"
So, let's put this together.
If you were on the standard American diet with little to no whole plant foods with virtually no dietary plant nitrate intake, and were suffering from high BP, poor blood flow and impaired endothelium health, might a "dose" of kale show improvement? Of course. If the subject refused to make any other change to their diet and lifestyle, might it be of some benefit to *dose* with it 3x a day or 6x a day? Maybe.
But that is not our scenario. Wouldn't it be better just to switch over to our recommendations?
Now take someone following the principles of the program as we recommend, who is already on a healthy lower fat, minimally processed, calorie adequate, nutrient sufficient, diet from a variety of minimally processed plant foods with already has a much higher, if not substantially higher content of dietary plant nitrates in it and getting them at every meal, who is also following a healthy lifestyle and exercising and getting some sun (both of which also raise nitric oxide production). Will adding in 6 servings a day be of even more benefit? Will it have to be 6x a day to be of benefit?
My answer to both questions is no.
However, make sure you *are* following the principles of the program.
In Health
Jeff