blood pressure lowered by McDougall diet & fasting

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blood pressure lowered by McDougall diet & fasting

Postby John_B » Tue Nov 08, 2016 3:25 pm

Following concerns about spells of an uncoordinated and rapid heartbeat, one of which landed me in A&E (ER), and BP 147/90, I started McDougalling. I worked into the diet slowly, and by the start of September 2016 was largely compliant (there were two meals involving fish and one involving chicken in the following 10 weeks). I also started to do a good walk every day rather than a few times per week.

Weight went from 86kg (190lb) to 73kg (160lb). Blood pressure went to 142/72. Diastolic pressure had normalized. Systolic pressure had fallen at best in line with weight loss. Excellent progress, though a bit more was still needed.

A cardiologist said the results of a CT angiogram may indicate a need for unusually aggressive drug treatment and anyway I was dangerously close to the level where drugs are used routinely. My dietary option seemed to be to try cutting coffee, wine and salt to zero. Under the circumstances I wanted a quicker solution, so I used a 14 day water fast to speed things up. Today BP is around 110/75 morning+evening average.

Now is the hardest part of a fast, the so-called re-feeding. I look forward to getting back to delicious McDougall food, and have asked for the new cookbook for Christmas, so with luck it will be in my stocking :D

The issue now is to keep BP down, hopefully without foregoing a few little sins like a touch of salt, or the odd espresso. Let's see.

FURTHER THOUGHTS ON DIET

While fasting I watched all the lectures on diet and fasting I could. I am open to competing dietary ideas, and there is interesting recent research around both calorie restriction and circadian rhythms. Not really tempted by the current fashion for ketogenic diets. Some people seem to do well on them, though it is early days. Anyway, a diet of pure water is ketogenic enough for me, and it is something I like to do from time to time, though for much shorter periods than this 14 day fast.

Now Paleo: I absolutely love eating blackberries straight off the briar, and blueberries & cranberries straight off the bush, which I suppose is in tune with Paleo philosophy. If Paleo is about catch your own, grow your own, gather your own, and cook your own, they have to be onto something.

You just have to cook at home, as food writer Michael Pollan explains. No more of the supermarket meat and potato pasties I used to enjoy. For example, Whole Foods is a chain of supermarkets with magnificent and very expensive food everywhere. Looking for a soup today, every single one contained rapeseed or sunflower oil. My heart sank: I might even risk it if they'd sauteed the veg in butter, but I am nervous of those industrial ingredients. No choice but to cook my own. I went to the market and bought more vegetables than I could carry for the price of two of those soups.

The McDougall approach feels right for me, and appears to be the best supported among the puzzling and contradictory dietary research, and Dr. McDougall is a particularly congenial representative of the high-carb approach, so this is where I expect to stay in dietary terms, no doubt with the odd lapse and a little fasting thrown in. So thank you Dr. McDougall and team!
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Re: blood pressure lowered by McDougall diet & fasting

Postby peterz54 » Sat Nov 19, 2016 6:51 am

I learned a lot about BP variability by taking my BP at home multiple times a day over many months. I could see the difference that salt and alcohol made. And a large difference when I was stressed. If you have not routinely taken BP at home, and therefore do not know what is normal for you at a given time period, and how that correlates with your diet and stress levels, I would advice you to be skeptical of single readings taken in your physician's office. I generally take BP readings before and after visiting my doctor.

As for fasting and circadian rhythms, you might find the recent work of Dr. Longo (of USC) and Dr. Panda (of Salk Inst) interesting and helpful in guiding your own regimes. Dr. Longo has developed a 5 day fasting mimicking diet to help cancer patients who cannot tolerate water only fasting. He discusses that and more in this recent talk with Dr. Patrick:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6PyyatqJSE&t=603s
Dr. Longo emphasized the importance of refeeding at the end of a fast. I emailed him and asked if he had optimized the refeeding part of the diet like he had for the fasting mimicking diet. He answered that he had not but was working on it. My guess is that refeeding with quality food, but a little higher in protein, for several days after the fast might be warranted.

I also found Dr. Patrick's discussion with Dr. Panda very interesting and helpful as well:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-R-eqJDQ2nU&t=3696s
Dr. Panda also talks about time restricted feeding, which can be considered a form of fasting. I practice over-night fasting (time-restricted) by eating within and 8 to 10 hour window most days, while also avoiding caloric intake within 2 to 3 hours of bedtime.
https://mycircadianclock.org/

Obviously more research needed, but it seems to me that accounting for fasting and circadian rhythm research can take the health impact of a plant based diet to a new level.
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Re: blood pressure lowered by McDougall diet & fasting

Postby John_B » Sat Nov 19, 2016 11:43 am

Interesting points there.

On one youtube interview Valter Longo basically indicated that the point of the fast-mimicking diet was not because it was better than, or as good as fasting: more because five-day water fasting turned out to be hard to persuade patients and their doctors to accept, when he attempted to run a trial with water fasting on chemo patients. Though my experience is that a low calorie diet is tougher than water only.

My blood pressure started to creep up again after the above experiment: too much salt, and a Chinese meal probably containing MSG and low quality oil were likely culprits. Though it is still way better than before I started. So I am doing another 24 hours on water to see how much of the the gains can be recaptured.
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Re: blood pressure lowered by McDougall diet & fasting

Postby israelIma » Sun Nov 20, 2016 5:27 am

About two months ago, my blood pressure started to be quite high. Mornings were higher than nights---as high as 150/85. I went to the doctor who had me wear a halter and confirmed that the readings I was getting at home were correct. She wanted to give me medication, but I decided to be very careful about my diet, go down to one cup of coffee a day, and cut out my evening glass of wine. I also spoke to the doctor who prescribes my bio-identical hormones. He suggested adding magnesium as a supplement. I know this is not McDougall friendly advice but it seemed a better alternative than blood pressure medication.

I just took my morning blood pressure and it was 116/74. This fall has happened gradually over the past two months. I have been very McDougall compliant. My diet is very potato oriented with some lentils, fresh greens, and other vegetables. I am still limiting coffee, and I have also added back 2 glasses of red wine a week without a problem.

I am still not losing weight as fast as I'd like, but I know that is because I eat too many calories--good calories but calories none-the-less.
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Re: blood pressure lowered by McDougall diet & fasting

Postby peterz54 » Mon Nov 21, 2016 11:49 am

John_B wrote:The McDougall approach feels right for me, and appears to be the best supported among the puzzling and contradictory dietary research, and Dr. McDougall is a particularly congenial representative of the high-carb approach, so this is where I expect to stay in dietary terms, no doubt with the odd lapse and a little fasting thrown in. So thank you Dr. McDougall and team!


I credit Dr. McDougall and others like him with my own health improvements which include reduced BP and drastically reduced lipids.

Dr. M also endorses fasting for some situations and associates himself with the TrueNorth clinic and Dr. Goldhamer and staff who have a long history of helping patients by using fasting and a plant based diet to deal with health issues, including high BP.
http://www.healthpromoting.com/
In Dr. Longo's discussion about fasting, the subject area is much broader and has to do with general health, cancer, immunity, and aging. Which is why I think there's room for periodic fasting of some sort even when eating an ideal whole food plant diet.

On the specific issue of BP, you might also try going heavy on the greens as you'll get more nitrates which is converted in to NO. NO will improve vascular health and reduce BP.
Dr. Greger of Nutritionfacts.org has a number of informative videos on this subject
http://nutritionfacts.org/?fwp_search=b ... type=video
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