Going well so far

[JulieS]

Can you take your pizza recipe that took you 2 years to develop and remove the oil? I bet it will still be great without it!

[howardt]

Sure, Julie. I guess I could leave out the oil and change the bread flour to whole wheat flour.

I'll make some this week and post the results.

[EvanG]

Any fat free bread recipe will work fine. I used to use a no-knead method similar to Jim Leahy's (NYT article popularizing it). The bread that I made was sourdough with about 40% wheat. The recipe was 500 g flour 360 g water, a bit of yeast, and 11 g salt. This was out of a book called Tartine Bread.

Having no water will not be a problem. If you put a dusting of flour, corn flour, or something similar on a hot stone or pan, the dough will not stick. The one issue with veggie pizzas, is that you have to remove enough water before assembling the pizza. Otherwise, it will make the dough soggy. This will not be good, and it will stick to the pan.

[howardt]

Thanks Evan. I read that applesauce can be used as a substitute for oil, so I may give that a try if leaving it out altogether doesn't work.

I've made a lot of no-knead bread, but never tried to stretch it into a pizza. The high hydration ratio was designed for dutch oven baking. I guess I'll have to try and see how it comes out.

[flabingo]

Three years ago I read the China Study, then Essellstyn book, and changed my health, by changing my behavior. I no longer consume dairy or meat, and do not miss it. A diet suggest a time limit, but I changed the way I eat for the rest of my life. My weight dropped from 187 to 163 and my LDL went from 185 to 60. I believe I have a fiduciary responsibility to my loved ones to be in good health.
I recently read bitter pill.pdf and it reinforced my belief in my program.
I have a very good friend who is 80 years old and has type 2 diabetes and is 40 pounds over weight. I asked him how many nights a week he eats out. His answer was five, since his wife of 55 years does not cook. He has no chance to lose weight. I went out to eat at Carrabas, and had more salt in one meal than I have in a whole month.
Another good book is Salt Sugar Fat. This is a wonderful website.Thanks for your good work

[EvanG]

howardt,
How did it go? I usually would just knead some flour into the bread when I turned it out until it had the right consistency. I also just pushed it / rolled it out as opposed to throwing it.

[howardt]

Evan,

I still haven't gotten around to it. I will try later today. I'm going to try Julie's suggestion and just use the same recipe I always use, but substitute ww flour, add a little extra water and substitute applesauce for olive oil.

I'll let you know how it goes.

Went to John's Pizza at 44th St. and 8th in NYC last weekend. My favorite pizza place on earth. I was good; just had a salad. But if I ever go back to the dark side it will be for a John's pizza.

[howardt]

OK. I made the dough. It was a good first effort, but not something I would serve anyone. The dough needs more body.

It was the same recipe as I usually make, but I used ww instead of bread flour, added a couple of tablespoons more water, a tbl of vital wheat gluten instead of two tsp, and applesauce instead of olive oil. The dough had enough strength that I could stretch it a bit, but it was initially much stickier than white dough with oil.

Will add more gluten next time. Maybe two tbls.

[howardt]

It's been over 2 months since I first posted and figured I'd post an update.

I am still fully on the plan. I actually don't care about weight anymore, I've lost all I wanted to and as long as I keep eating this way I don't see how its possible to put it back on. I'm 5'10" and 155 lbs. I lost 55 lbs in total. I still feel fine.

I haven't had any trouble staying on the plan. I'm kind of binary. I'm either fully on it, or off it. I'm not good at moderation at all. For me, moderation would just lead to being off the plan entirely. It also helps that my palate changed, just like Nathan Pritikin described in his interview with Dr. McDougall 30 years ago. I don't need added salt, and I don't crave meat or dairy at all. If I was ever going to cheat it would be for cake or cookies. I could still eat a sleeve of oreos if I let myself. But so far I've just stuck with carrots or shredded wheat to satisfy a late night binge.

I don't like talking to people about my weight loss or the plan. I haven't met anyone interested in switching from SAD, and always get the stupid protein question. I was originally happy to discuss it, expecting others who were suffering with weight or health issues to be looking for THE ANSWER to their problems. But people seem to think that giving up meat and dairy is some sort of self punishment, and are not interested.

I occasionally get comments from people telling me not to lose more weight. It's really none of their business. In any event my BMI is 22, right smack in the middle of Normal range. Maybe I appear too thin to them because they are used to the look of an average overweight american.

Restaurant-wise I have given up hoping to have a good meal. I don't trust anything labeled "vegetarian" on the menu because all it means is there is probably no cow or pig in it. It can still have dairy, eggs, oil, and sugar. I eat a lot of steamed vegetables or salad at restaurants, if available. But it always seems like a waste of money. It's not very satisfying. I wind up eating for real when I get home. I might as well just have a glass of water and eat my entire meal at home.

When I was eating SAD I avoided cheese, other than mozzarella. I just hate the taste of cheese, and had adverse physical reactions to it. So giving up cheese on this plan has not been a problem. But the ubiquity of cheese always surprises me. I would order a salad and there would be cheese in it. Same for soup or baked potato. I would then have to eat around it or send it back. It's like cheese is a given. Lots of times I would order a burger with no cheese, and it would be there anyway, because ... I think the common attitude is: who doesn't want cheese?

The equivalent now is oil. It's in everything. I never noticed while on SAD because I liked olive oil. But now that I am on this plan, it's in every vegetarian recipe (outside of those designed for this plan), it's in all non-steamed vegetarian restaurant dishes. It's in the pasta water, it's in the soup, it's in the sauces.

When I make a vegetarian recipe I just leave out the oil. If it calls for sauteed onions I wilt them in water instead. And the end result is just fine. I taste no difference. I don't know why it's in everything. Even if people think olive oil is healthy, the health benefit is destroyed by heating up the oil. So oil provides nothing but calories and maybe "mouth feel" (I hate that expression).

The above seems a little cranky. I am learning to lower my expectations of the exterior world. I admit I wouldn't mind if Dr. McDougall and Dr. Esselstyn announced they were wrong about oil and it was A-OK. It would be easier to eat a diet that was a closer to the way the rest of the country eats. But that's not going to happen, and I really don't mind following the plan as is.

Aside from the crankiness, I am genuinely grateful to Drs. McDougall, Esselstyn and Fuhrman for changing my life. My weight is back to what it should always have been, what it was 30 years ago in my early twenties. I feel great, I can function like a "normal" human. I no longer get sleepy while I drive. I can bend to pick things up without making that "oof" sound. I'm not restricted by health issues, I don't take medication, I no longer have the beginnings of diabetes, and I am not likely to be facing a future of doctor visits, drugs and surgeries.

I am also grateful for this forum. It's good to know I am not alone, eating this way. Someone once asked me "what are there, like 10 people in the world who eat the way you do?" It would feel that way, very lonely, if it weren't for all the supportive folks on this forum.

[JulieS]

Howard- you aced the McDougall WOE! Congrats on your success! You have a wicked sense of humor that I'm sure helps you through all the crap from the SAD people's rude comments! I think it is odd that oil is used in almost every step of cooking most recipes, too, even vegan recipes. I also just eliminate the oil when making the recipe or I substitute applesauce for it if it is baking. Fortunately, I cook mostly simple recipes that don't involve a lot of ingredients outside of veggies. I cook so many veggies everyday. I am truly hooked on vegetables now. I used to be a big dairy consumer (Greek yogurt, cheese, milk), but now it sickens me to look at it. Thanks for your fantastic update. IMHO because of your 55# weight loss and your story of perfecting the perfect pizza during your SAD life, you should be a Star McDougaller!

[howardt]

Hi Julie.

Me? A Star? Aw Shucks.

[djunamod]

Good for you that it's going well for you so far and you're making good progress. I am in the same boat - a long way to go but doing well so far .

About the pizza - what I do is take an Ezkiel sprouted grain pita (or a good whole grain pita will work too) and slice it first in half lengthwise, then widthwise. Then I spread it with organic toato paste and sprinkle that with organic Italian seasoning. Then I top it with lots of veggies (usually slices of shallots, mushrooms, and bell pepper). I then pop it in the oven for about 15 minutes.

I completely don't miss pizza because of this (I have this for dinner a few times a week) and it's a great reminder that we don't need all the cheese and meats to enjoy a pizza.

Djuna

[viv]

Congratulations Howard on reaching your weight-loss and health goals! You are truly an inspiration to those of us who are slowly but surely getting there.

We are true pioneers on this journey encouraging and supporting each other along the way.

Viv

[howardt]

Thanks Djuna and Viv.

Djuna that pita pizza sounds good.

The funny thing about this WOE is that much of my desire for old SAD food has withered and blown away. I used to eat pizza every week. I loved it. But I don't care about it anymore. I am sure I would enjoy it if I decided to go off the plan for a day, but it's not that important to me.

It's not a self-control or willpower thing. I just lost the desire for it all, pizza included. Last night I got the munchies and went to the kitchen. The first thing I saw was a bag of pretzels. In the old days I would have eaten about half the bag. But now, the idea of eating something that dry and salty is a turnoff. I wound up with a pear and some carrots instead.

I don't mention this because I deserve a pat on the back. I am not overcoming anything. The plan itself seems to have changed me.

What I like about your pita dish, Djuna, is it sounds tasty on its own. Not just as a substitute for pizza, but as a dish in its own right. That's what I try to do with the few recipes I make now - I don't look to convert the old food into veggie form. I just try to make this WOE taste good.

Viv, I agree. We ARE pioneers. It's amazing that the WFPBNO diet works so well, but is still so unknown.

[howardt]

I've been on WFPB for almost 6 months, and have never deliberately gone off the plan. Occasionally I've eaten a restaurant meal made with some oil.

We were having a family celebration and I made some of my old SAD food. Chocolate cake. I've been making this cake recipe for 25 years, and it's the best cake I've ever eaten. I only made it occasionally because it's a lot of work, and because I tended to eat half the cake. It's been a long time since I last made it.

I had a piece. It was mind blowingly good.

The good news is it didn't turn me back to the dark side. I was a little afraid that any deviation would push me back to the old diet, but nothing's changed. I was back to rice and beans and salad by dinner.

I've been telling myself that I am not missing anything by eating WFPB, and the SAD eaters around me just can't see that because all they eat is SAD. But now I think that's BS. This IS a deprivation plan.

There are great health reasons for eating this way. But there's also a reason that cultures shift to a Western diet when they get the chance, and it's not just because of evil corporate marketing and addictive food design. SAD tastes good and feels good. Is it worth risking bypasses and decades of drug dependence? For me, no. But I understand why some people make another choice.

The difference is that people are confused, or ignorant of the health effects of their own diet, and I've had my eyes opened by Drs Esselstyn, McDougall and Fuhrman. I think that education has protected me, and makes it really impossible to go back to SAD. Why would I when doing so is only going to guarantee health problems?

I was talking with some friends last week, and the subject of diet came up. They are both trying to shed some pounds and "knew" they had to cut out carbs. We didn't get into details, but I wonder if people know what carbs are. Do they think carbs are just bread, cookies and candy? Dr. McDougall is working hard to make sure every doctor has some training in nutrition. But doctors aren't the only ones who need it. Everyone does.