Questions about items recommended and not recommended on MWL

[douglerner]

I was reading more about the maximum weight loss plan because I still have a lot to lose and feel my weight loss has stagnated somewhat. I have lost 40 lb in 15 weeks on the Starch Solution, but my weight loss has leveled out the last few weeks and I still have at least 40-50 lb more to lose.

It seems, from what I read, that I am basically already on the maximum weight loss plan even though I intended to be following Starch Solution. For example, I already don't eat any nuts or seeds or bread or pasta - except for udon.

But some of the MWL recommendations seem a bit inconsistent. If the idea is to reduce consumption of the highest calorie carbs in favor of mixing in more vegetables, why emphasize rice? Rice is a really high calorie carb.

Here is a comparison of 200 gram servings of a few starches:

brown rice - 285
cooked pasta - 261
udon - 259
baked potatoes - 205

While potatoes are clearly the lowest in calories, pasta doesn't seem any worse than rice. What do you think? Rice actually seems like the worst of the lot. Plus to me, rice isn't filling.

Also, the maximum weight loss plan recommends avoiding soy, but 200 grams of firm tofu only has 146 calories, and is filling because of the protein.

Anyway, just a few points that make me wonder why this and not that...

Thanks,

doug

[PJK]

Doug Lisle, a psychologist affiliated with this site, recommends that for weight loss, you avoid all foods measuring more than 600 calories/pound.

My quick search shows udon noodles coming in higher than that: 208 cals for a 4-oz cooked serving. Times 4 (for 16 oz/1lb) gives you 832 calories. That's higher than 600 cal/lb., so could be the culprit.

https://www.eatthismuch.com/food/view/macaroni,5999/

[douglerner]

Doug Lisle, a psychologist affiliated with this site, recommends that for weight loss, you avoid all foods measuring more than 600 calories/pound.

My quick search shows udon noodles coming in higher than that: 208 cals for a 4-oz cooked serving. Times 4 (for 16 oz/1lb) gives you 832 calories. That's higher than 600 cal/lb., so could be the culprit.

https://www.eatthismuch.com/food/view/macaroni,5999/

Hmm... There are more calories per lb than I originally calculated. Not as much as you get, but mine are 259 per 200 g package.

200 g = 7.05 oz. So in one lb there are 16 / 7.05 x 259 = 587 calories/lb.

That is still less than 600 calories/lb though.

And it's still better than brown rice. The brown rice I get in 160 g microwave packages are 228 calories. 160 g is 5.64 oz, so

16 / 5.64 x 228 = 646 calories/lb.

doug

[JeffN]

Doug Lisle, a psychologist affiliated with this site, recommends that for weight loss, you avoid all foods measuring more than 600 calories/pound.

To clarify (as the 600 calories/pound originally comes from me)

viewtopic.php?f=22&t=52756

You can also watch the whole Calorie Density lecture for FREE here...

https://youtu.be/0CdwWliv7Hg

In Health
Jeff

[douglerner]

Doug Lisle, a psychologist affiliated with this site, recommends that for weight loss, you avoid all foods measuring more than 600 calories/pound.

To clarify (as the 600 calories/pound originally comes from me)

viewtopic.php?f=22&t=52756

You can also watch the whole Calorie Density lecture for FREE here...

https://youtu.be/0CdwWliv7Hg

In Health
Jeff

Thanks. I will check those out. It seems that the udon noodles I've been eating have a lower calorie density than brown rice. Plus brown rice isn't filling for me, while udon noodles are.

One thing I always found inconsistent about Dr. McDougall's lectures where he talks about calorie density are his glass models of stomachs. After all, calorie density is not measured in calories per volume but rather calories per weight. And his book he mentions that research shows that we feel satisfaction based on the weight of food we eat, more than the volume. That's why some "seemingly low" calorie foods, like popcorn, are not filling, because their calorie density is actually quite high - a pound of popcorn is much more than 1,000 calories.

[JeffN]

viewtopic.php?f=11&t=48609

In Health
Jeff

[douglerner]

https://www.drmcdougall.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=48609

In Health
Jeff

Many interesting links there. I still think there are a few inconsistencies here and there in Dr. McDougall's explanations (those things tend to nag at me) but I guess I'm ok for now.

I'm going to make the following adjustments, based on my own experience, the fact I gained 0.4 kg this past week, and feedback I've received. Please note I lost 40 lb my first 15 weeks on Starch Solution, but even though I still have to lose at least that amount still my weight loss has come to a halt the last few weeks.

- I'm going to give up tofu for now, even though the amount of calories (and calorie density) are low and even though I find it filling. I'm doing it just because it's deprecated by Dr. McDougall and is high in fat. I don't think this is the cause of weight loss slow down, but anyway, I'm going to stop eating tofu for a while. Maybe I've been overdoing it.

- I'm not going to eat rice at home. The caloric density is very high, and rice is not filling (for me) and it's just a waste of calories I think. I might have some rice if I need to eat outside.

- I'm going to give up sugar. I've been sucking on honey-lemon drops since I had my coughing attack earlier in the summer. Now that I'm better I don't need them anymore and I may have been overdoing them.

- I'm going to continue to eat udon sometimes. It's very filling for me, and the calorie density is lower than for brown rice.

- I will try to eat more potatoes instead of other starches when possible.

- I will try to eat more non-starchy vegetables, including frozen mixed vegetables and salads, with some legumes.

I'm already hardly eating any fruits at all, so nothing to change there.

And we'll see how it goes!

[pundit999]

Hmm.

Most Udon noodles appears to be made from white flour. They are like most pasta in that.

For maximum weight loss, you should avoid all flours, including all pasta and noodles and bread.

If you don't want to do that, it may be better to eat Soba noodles which are made of buckwheat and more likely to be whole grain.

In my experience, whole barley (difficult to find in regular grocery stores; Whole Foods and online may be the only options; most barley in stores is pearled barley which is not whole) whole rice and cracked wheat work well.

[pundit999]

About Soba noodles:

Soba noodles offer a lower-cal alternative to wheat pasta. Each cup of cooked noodles contains only 113 calories, or just over five percent of the daily limit in a 2,000-calorie diet. White spaghetti, on the other hand, contains 220 calories per cup, while a whole-wheat version contains 174 calories. If you eat pasta three times per week, switching from white pasta to soba noodles will save you over 16,692 calories annually, or the equivalent of almost five pounds.

[douglerner]

Here's how soba compares to udon and brown rice - in the packages I get from my local supermarket.

Udon - 259 calories per 200 g package.
200 g = 7.05 oz. So in one lb there are 16 / 7.05 x 259 = 587 calories/lb.

Brown rice - 228 calories per 160 g microwave package.
160 g is 5.64 oz, so 16 / 5.64 x 228 = 646 calories/lb.

Soba - 218 calories per 170 g package.
170 g is 6 oz, so 16 / 6 x 218 = 581 calories/lb.

The highest in calorie density is brown rice. It's also the least filling for me.
Soba and udon are about the same calorie density. But udon is much more filling. Probably because they are thick noodles. Not sure. Maybe it's just that it's a more reasonable-sized serving.

Anyway, I need to find the right balance so I can be satisfied and not go off the diet, yet still limit my total calories. Soba is one possibility. But brown rice seems the worst.

[JuicerJohn]

I would check on the ingredients of the package of brown rice. The reason I say this is that Nutrition Facts lists cooked brown rice at 111 calories for 100 grams, or 177 calories for 160. That is considerably less than the 228 calories you have been using.

I suspect one of two things. Either there are other ingredients that are adding to the total calories, or the cooked rice in the package is very dry and therefore lacking water weight. If either of thise is true, you are probably better off cooking your own rice. That way you know exactly what goes into it.

It might also be worthwhile checking on the ingredients of the other precooked packages.

[douglerner]

The ingredients are just rice, but it is possible that it is on the dry side. The problem when I make rice in my rice cooker is that rice is like a trigger food for me. So if I make several portions and put them in containers and put them in the refrigerator I'll end up eating them all. It's just not filling.

[PJK]

FYI this site shows cooked brown rice at 592 cal./pound, making rice a good choice for a weight-loss diet:

http://www.answers.com/Q/How_many_calories_are_in_1_pound_of_rice

[douglerner]

FYI this site shows cooked brown rice at 592 cal./pound, making rice a good choice for a weight-loss diet:

http://www.answers.com/Q/How_many_calories_are_in_1_pound_of_rice

Except for the fact that, for me, it's not filling at all so I eat too much of it. Other starches are way more filling, and have lower calorie densities.

[PJK]

2 points. One, brown rice, because relatively unprocessed, is more nutritious than noodles (including udon), which are processed from wheat, buckwheat, etc. Compared with noodles, rice will give you more vitamins, minerals, water, fiber and other good things. That's important to factor in.

Two, if you're eating low enough on the caloric-density scale, eating a lot should not be a problem. Eat an entire pound of brown rice, that's a lot of food, yet less than 600 calories. Eat a pound of plain vanilla ice cream, which isn't that difficult, and you've just eaten 1,000 calories.

You might benefit from watching Jeff Novick's video on calorie density, it's quite good and very clear:

https://jnovickrd.wistia.com/medias/6spnl236aq

One fact he points out - people generally eat the same volume (pounds) of food each day. If you ate 5 pounds of food yesterday, you'll probably eat about 5 pounds today. But caloric density can vary by more than 40-fold. To give an extreme example: 5 pounds might be just 500 calories if it's all lettuce...but 20,000 calories if it's all oil.