July 2020 McDougall MWL Weigh-In Group

[Mark Cooper]

Please note - I replied to each participant individually in the two lengthy posts linked below.

Mark's Replies for July 10 - Part 1
Mark's Replies for July 10 - Part 2

By my count, 100 participants reported for our second July 2020 MWL weigh-in! If I neglected to include anyone, or you notice an error in the tally, please let me know (via PM so we can keep the thread as tidy as possible, or in a post here if you cannot PM).

Here are the results for the second Friday in July:

Week ending 7/10/2020: 100 participants reported a total loss of -184.70 pounds
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JaydaMax +2.80
Carwex +2.00
SGarcia +2.00
Veganvic +1.00
Vegyluvver +0.60
AmandaL +0.50
TeriGG +0.20
--------------------------------------------------
Total gains: +9.10
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NO CHANGE / MAINTAIN / STARTING OUT
Abe 0.00
Corey M 0.00
GreenGables 0.00
Gspeech3 0.00
Kalilady 0.00
NatalieJ 0.00
Petunia 0.00
Simon 0.00
--------------------------------------------------
Abible -0.10
Drew* -0.20
Gimmelean -0.20
Sherr61 -0.20
Growing a Pear -0.30
Merwoman -0.40
Mmcg0306 -0.40
Texaslil -0.40
Karenjaq -0.50
Ejg -0.60
Laura_delao -0.60
RiceBurner -0.60
Rsmith0809 -0.60
Ukeplayer -0.60
Jan_npr -0.80
PonysPlants -0.80
Wstokes -0.80
Beeshell -0.90
Amberlina -1.00
Aussiefruitygirl -1.00
Cathmc -1.00
DaisyJ -1.00
Goal140 -1.00
GreenFroG -1.00
Lauradwight -1.00
Laurag -1.00
Noella -1.00
Renestl -1.00
Jillybean -1.10
Brynn -1.20
Zoey -1.20
JennyDianne -1.40
Pattyj115 -1.40
Judy_Bell -1.50
Adriana -1.70
BarbaraLynn -1.80
Hope410 -1.80
AnnieB20 -2.00
Chaz01 -2.00
Dot -2.00
KDoyler -2.00
Lucas -2.00
Philmwl -2.00
Pootsy -2.00
Rlechols -2.00
RWWWW -2.00
SaladDays -2.00
Tobinterri -2.00
Violet3135 -2.00
AnnetteW -2.20
VNiehoff -2.20
Jackcook82 -2.40
MDavidson -2.40
Busy-B -2.50
Cinderoli -2.50
Joanne_elon -2.50
Trish -2.50
Avanburen -2.60
K-Squared -2.60
Soulforged -2.80
Francnm -3.00
Golightly -3.00
hollyhock -3.00
Jenniferhopeful_ -3.00
Josietheschnauzer -3.00
LesleyMills -3.00
LLee -3.00
Waterfit -3.00
Wfpb2020 -3.00
April H. -3.50
Joannasophia -3.80
Babajoof -4.00
Chef16 -4.00
Cmurphy -4.00
KarenMWL -4.00
Minisweet -4.20
Vegeloon -4.20
MaryE -5.00
MaShellie -5.00
Jan Daley -6.00
OrangeBird -6.80
Cathy Ann -7.00
Kathie -7.00
Lachoffman -7.00
Dennis h -8.00
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Total losses: -193.80
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Cumulative group loss for July 2020 to date: 293.10 pounds
Average loss for week ending July 10: 1.85 pounds
--------------------------------------------------
Cumulative group loss for January 2020: 384.15 pounds
Cumulative group loss for February 2020: 96.60 pounds
Cumulative group loss for March 2020: 60.10 pounds
Cumulative group loss for April 2020: 218.00 pounds
Cumulative group loss for May 2020: 191.50 pounds
Cumulative group loss for June 2020: 120.63 pounds

Next Weigh-In is on Friday, July 17, 2020.


Congratulations everyone! I am forever in awe of the diligent effort displayed by the participants in this group!

In case anyone missed it, wildgoose authored another great post this week, a thorough rundown on sauces, gravies and other toppings.

I think when we struggle to successfully practice this way of eating, the cause of our struggles can often be traced to a handful of common reasons. Jeff enumerates these points in his post discussing Reasons for Failure.

If you are looking to fine tune your program or wondering why you may be struggling or not seeing the results you would like to as quickly as you would like, you may want to review these points.

I have updated them and added in a few new ones.

1) Poor Adherence/compliance. Sometimes from lack of application and sometimes from lack of understanding of the principles.

2) Misdirection of focus/priorities. Focusing on matters that don't really effect your health while not focusing on the ones that do.

3) Minimizing/Rationalizing the effect of certain behaviors and/or personal preferences, **especially in regard to certain foods**.

4) Too many processed/refined and/or calorie dense foods, especially those that are marketing as being "healthy."

5) Not understanding the difference between something that is "allowed" on occasion in small quantities, and something that is "recommended."

6) Inadequate exercise/activity

7) Not planning ahead. If you do not plan ahead for success, you will most likely not find it.

8 ) Time. Healing and results take time and for some of us, it may take a little longer than we hope.

9) Mcdougall "Plus" - This is where you mix the principles taught here with other principles you have read or learned somewhere else that are in conflict with the principles recommended here. While there are some program that are very much inline with these principles (ie, Esselstyn, etc) most are not.

Looking in aggregate at those reasons, it is apparent that having a clear and accurate understanding of the fundamental principles is instrumental in making the MWL program work in our daily lives. Jeff gives additional attention to some of the counterproductive additions, distractions and "hacks" that frequently arise from a lack of understanding or misdirection of focus as part of his explanation of the MWL guidelines.

The recommendations of Dr McDougall and myself come from not only a thorough review and understanding of the scientific literature on these issues, but also from decades of clinical experience working with clients in a closed residential setting.

However, in the last few years, people have come up with their own personal ways to improve the MWL program ("hacks"), usually based on their own short term experience. Most often, they do not have the understanding of the literature or the long term clinical experience we do. In addition, we are not interested in promoting "hacks" to the MWL to produce short term results that will be unsustainable for most people. As Dr McDougall always says at the program, we are not here for instant results, we are here to get you to like the food and teach you a sustainable program. We could easily serve you an all (or mostly) vegetable diet and you would have better initial short-term results but it will be unsustainable.

It is important to realize that any "hacks" to the MWL that are not in the above newsletters, or that do not come directly from Dr McDougall or myself, are not part of the MWL program, nor do we recommend them.

As Dr McDougall said in a recent newsletter...

"many popular healthcare "gurus" have had no formal education in the potentially life-threatening matters of your health. Almost as troubling are the credentialed healthcare/diet advisors who provide advice based solely on reading other people's research articles. The relevance of their guidance must be placed in the context that many of them haven't touched a patient since their primary dietetic or medical training."

People will often say, I was doing the MWL program but it wasn't working till I also did "X," to which they are often unaware that "X" Is already a part of the MWL program. On the other hand, people will often say they are following the MWL program and doing "Y" but they are unaware that "Y" is not part of the MWL program nor recommended.

Before making any "hack" to the MWL program, we recommend you give the MWL program with the refinements mentioned above a fair and honest chance.

Here are a few of the "hacks" people make that are not recommended. None of these are new. All have been around for a long time and seem to get recycled every few years

- A predominately raw food diet
- Eating only raw foods till 4 PM
- Intermittent fasting
- Restricted feeding window
- Extended fasts to lose weight
- Smoothies
- Juicing
- Basing their diet on non-starchy vegetables.
- Not including starch at each meal.
- Delaying the starch component of a meal.
- Eating only fruit for breakfast
- Eating only non-starchy vegetables for breakfast
- Excessive or extreme exercise
- Food Combining
- Meal Replacements
- Supplements

In regard to added salt and added sugar, we recommend buying and preparing food without either and if any are to be used, to add them at the table on the surface of the food. If either one is troublesome and create uncontrollable cravings for you, then leave them out.

While anecdotal stories are interesting, and you can always find them for almost any intervention, that is not why we are here or what our programs are based on. If we go by anecdotal evidence, we open a huge door that we don't really want to because then why not believe anyone with any anecdotal stories and testimonials regardless if they are doing any of the "hacks" listed above or if they are doing Paleo, Atkins, Weight Watchers, etc.

We are here because we are an evidence & science based program.

So, now that you are aware of the most common reasons we struggle and forewarned against that multitude of useless, distracting "hacks;" take a fresh look at the MWL 10-Point Checklist, make sure you have a firm understanding of the guidelines, and get right back to putting the recommended behaviors into practice.

And if there is something you don't understand, just ask.

My kindest regards to all and best wishes for a fabulous week of continuing positive change!

[Mark Cooper]

is nutritional yeast compliant?

Nutritional yeast is ~1700 calories / lb (just as calorie dense as sugar), so if one were to choose to use it, it should be used very sparingly, as with added sugar or salt - I would limit consumption to less than 2 Tbsp in a given day. Jeff covers the topic in more detail here.

[Cnmsth]

I lost 1 lb. this week. I stepped away from the group just before COVID and have struggled to bring myself back. No matter what happens, I feel so much better when I eat a high carb diet. Today I was listening to High Carb Hannah and she reminded me to listen to Jeff Novik's YouTube about Calorie Density and Doug Lisle's video, How to lose weight and not lose your mind. She then reminded me I don't have to be perfect. I have never believed I could be perfect and so I set my standards to low. The very best thing was in the January 2005 newsletter where John McDougall says that if I'm hungry I can be an adult and wait until I can get food that is good for me. Here is the quote:
"No harm will be done. You won't starve to death by waiting a few hours until something healthy is available. Delaying gratification is the smart thing to do and when you do finally eat the right foods they will taste extra delicious."

So here we go, again.

[BarbaraLynn]

[quote="Cnmsth" You won't starve to death by waiting a few hours until something healthy is available. Delaying gratification is the smart thing to do and when you do finally eat the right foods they will taste extra delicious."

[/quote]

Hi Cnmsth - So glad you're back! I just joined the boards on July 1st and am finding the group helpful.

Similar to Dr. McD's quote above, I always say to myself and others, 'hunger is not an emergency'. When I am running errands I try to always carry a cooked potato or sweet potato with me to keep from getting too hungry, but when I forget, I just repeat my mantra, 'hunger is not an emergency.' It keeps me from looking at CRAP!

BTW - I love High Carb Hannah too! Have a great week!

[Mark Cooper]

Cnmsth - I'm elated at your return to the group and your renewed focus on the recommended behaviors! We don't expect perfection, just assess your pattern of behavior honestly with respect to the MWL 10-Point Checklist, approach your effort to change with self-compassion, and do as well as you are able within a given circumstance.

[TeriGG]

Oh, no. I just realized I reported the wrong numbers yesterday. I thought I had lost 2 pounds (and I had from what I'd weighed a couple of days before) but I was actually up from last Saturday.

I weighed in at 216.0 yesterday and was at 215.8 last Saturday.

We had 3 parties this week---two birthday and one fourth of July, so I knew I had't done great, but really thought I'd lost some weight.


Ugh and oops.

[Mark Cooper]

Oh, no. I just realized I reported the wrong numbers yesterday. I thought I had lost 2 pounds (and I had from what I'd weighed a couple of days before) but I was actually up from last Saturday.

I weighed in at 216.0 yesterday and was at 215.8 last Saturday.

We had 3 parties this week---two birthday and one fourth of July, so I knew I had't done great, but really thought I'd lost some weight.


Ugh and oops.

I've updated the summary to reflect that correction. Thanks for letting me know.

[josietheschnauzer]

I am reporting today, Monday, for my lapse. Then I don't have to do more mea culpas on Friday! I was sent a care package from my cousin--fresh pinto beans, red chile from my native state of New Mexico. She also included a package of locally made flour tortillas. Yes, I did eat half of the package over two days and gave half away. Next time, I will give them all away. Although the taste was great, the result to my "pleasure trap" was immediate. Amazing! It is the first flour I have eaten since starting the MWL. No excuses. I move on

[PonysPlants]

Hope I’m ok to ask a quick question here! Are soups that have some juice in the ingredients OK on MWL or should they be avoided completely? Thanks in advance!

[wildgoose]

Hope I’m ok to ask a quick question here! Are soups that have some juice in the ingredients OK on MWL or should they be avoided completely? Thanks in advance!

@PonysPlants It's hard to say without knowing more, but here are my thoughts....

If it's a recipe, how much juice? What kind? Liquid in soup is often not a problem, but if it’s a juice or broth, what you need to look for is sodium and sugar. Packaged juices and broths can be high in either or both. If it’s just a small amount and is diluted by other liquids and vegetables, it may be more of a "condiment" and could be OK. If it’s several cups and comprises the majority of the liquid in the soup, it could be an issue.

If it’s a canned/boxed soup, again the potential problem is usually sodium. Read the label. Mark posted a link earlier to Jeff's Label Reading Rules & Guidelines, which is very helpful in doing that.

FYI, you might like a good veggie stock/broth recipe that is definitely MWL (again from Jeff Novick), so easy to make that even this lazy Goose can do it...

Here is my recipe for Veggie Broth. It is on my Fast Food: Beyond the Basics DVD and also appears in Cathy Fishers new cookbook.
Basic Vegetable Stock

If you like to use vegetable stock instead of water for cooking vegetables on the stovetop or in soups and stews, use this easy recipe (courtesy of Jeff Novick, R.D.). Unlike with meat-based stocks, there’s no skimming off fat and you don’t need to keep the pot on the stove for hours.

4 cups chopped potatoes, peeled or unpeeled
2 cups chopped carrots, peeled or unpeeled
2 cups chopped celery (leaves are fine to include)
2 cups chopped yellow or white onions
1 cup chopped parsley (stems are fine to include)

1. Wash the vegetables and parsley well. Place all of the ingredients (potatoes, carrots, celery, onions, and parsley) into a large stockpot. Add water to cover plus an extra couple inches (less water will yield a more concentrated broth and more water will result in a lighter flavored stock). Bring to a boil over medium-high heat.

2. Reduce the heat to medium-low, and simmer uncovered for at least 20 minutes.

3. Take the pot off the stove and remove all of the vegetables with a slotted spoon. Pour the broth through a fine mesh strainer (or a regular colander lined with cheesecloth) to filter out any pieces. Pour 1- to 2-cup portions of the stock into storage containers (I like canning jars). When cooled completely, the broth may be stored in the refrigerator or freezer.

Notes:
• For mushroom flavor, add ½ to 1 pound chopped mushrooms (any variety) to the pot of vegetables.

• What’s the difference between stock and broth? Stock is left unseasoned for cooking, and broth is seasoned and so can be used for drinking or as a soup base. Feel free to add some garlic, ginger, or any other favorite seasonings to this “stock” recipe to create a more flavorful “broth.”

• To use vegetable trimmings, add them (clean) to a bag in your freezer as you accumulate them. Once the bag is full, use the contents to make a batch of broth. Most vegetables can be used, but cruciferous vegetables (cabbage, broccoli, cauliflower, Brussels sprouts) are usually avoided since they can impart a bitter flavor.

Preparation: about 20 minutes
Cooking: 30 minutes
Makes: (variable)

If this isn’t helpful, please write back and let us know the specifics of your soup in question.

Goose

[wildgoose]

I am reporting today, Monday, for my lapse. Then I don't have to do more mea culpas on Friday! I was sent a care package from my cousin--fresh pinto beans, red chile from my native state of New Mexico. She also included a package of locally made flour tortillas. Yes, I did eat half of the package over two days and gave half away. Next time, I will give them all away. Although the taste was great, the result to my "pleasure trap" was immediate. Amazing! It is the first flour I have eaten since starting the MWL. No excuses. I move on

@josietheschnauzer This is valuable information for you. You got a good look into the Pleasure Trap pit without taking a headlong dive.

Flour products do the same thing to me. It was well over a year before I could have flour tortillas around here for the Gander's burritos. Now I can ignore them, but if I were to eat one, I’d be finishing off the whole package for sure. Easy to see why they’re off the list for MWL, in addition to being higher in calorie density.

Well done to give the rest of them away and move on!

Goose

[PonysPlants]

Thank you so much, Goose. That’s beyond helpful. I decided that if I had to ask it probably wasn’t the right thing to do. It was for a recipe for Apple and butternut soup with 2 cups of apple juice. I decided to add in the whole apple instead and it was great. Will definitely make that recipe though. Thanks again.

[Cathmc]

- .6lbs this week.
I started many (not all) of my meals with fruit/salad. Drastically cut down tahini but didn’t eliminate 100% in my hummus, otherwise cut out all nut butters. Need to work on the 50/50 starch/greens, tend to take a little more starch at the end of the meal if I’m hungry. I also have not been exercising this week, it’s very hot and humid down south here and getting out to walk is abysmal!

Ukeplayer - I love hummus too. Right now I´m not making it but I am making the "Asian Garbanzo spread" it´s a nice change and MWL compliant.

Great seeing all the comments and good work.

Have a good rest of the week everyone.

[carwex]

A quick question for Jeff or Goose. (Let's give Mark a break):

What's the MWL attitude to polenta or corn meal? Allowed or not?Whole or not?

Thanks in advance

Carol

[wildgoose]

A quick question for Jeff or Goose. (Let's give Mark a break):

What's the MWL attitude to polenta or corn meal? Allowed or not?Whole or not?

Thanks in advance

Carol

Carol, here's Jeff's answer on polenta.

Since Jeff has said that polenta is in the same category as whole grain pasta for MWL, I will also recommend (the same way I do for pasta) that you be extra sure to include lots of non-starchy vegetables in any meal that uses polenta. Also take Jeff's advice and if you find that you’re overeating on polenta, leave it out.

Cornmeal that you make into cornbread, however, is a flour. Not MWL. What's the difference? Water and the level of processing. Polenta has water and bulk. Cornbread, corn tortillas, etc., are made from a more finely ground cornmeal and also have the water baked out of them, which raises the overall calorie density level past what works for MWL. Also, they’re easier to overeat. I’m amazed at the number of homemade cornbread muffins that the Gander can drop down his gullet in the course of a morning (but he’s genetically very lean and needs the extra calories to keep weight on — which is not the case for me ).

Hope that makes sense.

Goose