I almost slapped my cashier and the guy behind me!

[Atheria]

I need to vent.

While my cashier was checking out my veggies, beans, etc. he commented that he had open heart surgery a few years ago that cost $65,000 and bragged that he only had to pay $50 of it. (What insurance does he have?!) Of course, me being me, I told him he needed to eat like me and go vegan. He scoffed and laughed as he told me he loves greasy food and told me, proudly, that he starts every morning with chorizo and other crap. He then, LAUGHINGLY, told me that he's having heart issues again (because he never changed his diet after the first clogged arteries surgery) and his surgeon told him, "I've done my job, now you need to do yours." He made some comment about life not being worth living without fatty food. Then, this guy behind me said that being vegan was "too hard". WHAT?! I said, "I would rather eat kale than have my chest split open and people's hands on my heart. THAT'S HARD!"

Seriously, I wanted to slap these two guys. For one thing, it's because of people like them that I have such high insurance costs. GRRRRRR! I seriously think that doctors should refuse to operate on people who refuse to help themselves and that insurance companies should not cover them. I'm pissed.

Atheria

[Lyndzie]

OMG, I am totally with you. When people start in on the rising costs of healthcare I get all worked up. We need doctors for broken bones and cuts and infections, but this is out of control because of long term chronic disease caused by not taking care of yourself.

I have a lot of sympathy for people who are trying to do better but struggle or are confused (like those Paleo folks). I have no sympathy for blatant disregard.

[Grammy Ginger]

I get upset about this from time to time. I really hate it when they think it's ok to comment on my healthy food choices at the restaurant or grocer. I don't say what I think about their carts full of junk.

I guess I like the Bambi rule. If you don't have anything nice to say, don't say anything at all.

But the Steel Magnolia rule is a lot more fun. If you don't have anything nice to say, come sit by me.

I feel a lot better about all this when I do what my grandma told me to do, "Be like a duck, Ginger. Just let it roll right off your back." Once in a while, I can pull this off.

[Idgie]

This is not a popular opinion in vegan circles, and I'm not saying anyone needs to agree with me, but I don't think anyone owes it to me to be healthy, or to value health the way I do. People are entitled to do whatever they want with their own bodies.

[QubitBob]

While my cashier was checking out my veggies, beans, etc. he commented that he had open heart surgery a few years ago that cost $65,000 and bragged that he only had to pay $50 of it.

That's one of the problems behind our modern "healthcare" system--there is little incentive for people to take care of themselves. The great majority are like your cashier--they are unwilling to make the changes in their diet and lifestyle to improve their health. And why should they, when the system will pay all but $50 out of a $65,000 bill (assuming he was telling the truth)?

I've been railing about this for years. I refer to this as a "broken market". What I mean by this is, in a true market you have the famous supply/demand curve which sets the price (see https://tinyurl.com/y89lc7x2 ). However, in our broken healthcare market, too often the healthcare consumer sees only a fraction of the cost, so he has little incentive to find ways to lower his "demand." That guarantees that the healthcare providers will keep raising the costs.

I guarantee that if Mr. Cashier had to pay most of the $65,000 bill he would be doing everything in his power to avoid a second trip to the operating room.

[Atheria]

Honestly, although the financial issue might motivate him, I got the vibe that his taste buds were all that mattered...even over his family, that would probably grieve his loss. I just cannot fathom finding open heart surgery to be more appealing than chorizo for breakfast.

Sigh,
Atheria

[Lyndzie]

This is not a popular opinion in vegan circles, and I'm not saying anyone needs to agree with me, but I don't think anyone owes it to me to be healthy, or to value health the way I do. People are entitled to do whatever they want with their own bodies.

Yes and no. I look at unhealthy eating similarly to smoking - it’s poisoning your body, and then society has to come to the rescue. We have a responsibility not only to ourselves and our immediate family, but to society at large. We know that this food is created to be irresistable and addictive. I have a lot of sympathy for people blinded by the food, but we are the ones that have to care for them when they don’t care for themselves. It’s like vaccines, you don’t have to get them, but your decision impacts everyone around you.

[gracezw]

Atheria, thank you for sharing. I am sending you a lot of loving and supporting energy!

Having an open heart surgery is not fun at all! The whole prepping, operating and healing process is long with a lot of fear, pain, anxiety and depression. It is a lot of suffering!

I am interested in finding out what insurance he has. Maybe he is on Medicaid?

Also I remember one member on this forum say that since we eat so healthfully, we don’t need to buy any health insurance, or minimal cost of health insurance. Can anyone comment on that?

[Atheria]

I do wish that people in good health, who exercise, etc. got a medical insurance discount...but...that is not the case. And yeah, I'm highly jealous of his insurance. This is New Mexico, where poverty is rampant, and I doubt he makes that much money cashiering...so Medicaid is possible.

The fact he found needing bypass surgery (or stents) to be funny just astounds me.

I agree with the sentiment that although people's diet, smoking, and exercise choices are theirs...it DOES now affect me, so it is my business. The exponential increase in diabetes (and its complications) costs ALL of us in terms of premiums. I got into a Facebook fight with this guy who bragged about not having car insurance. Since my car was hit and run by someone probably uninsured in June, it ticked me off. My insurance had to pay to fix my car that was minding its own business on the side of a road. New Mexico has a lot of uninsured drivers, which makes our uninsured motorist coverage pricey.

Still venting,
Atheria

[MINNIE]

Atheria, I sometimes feel angry too.

Idgie, I agree that people have a right to be wrong. Even when their behavior seems totally irrational.

Humans -they are such a pain in the *** sometimes .

(yes, I include myself in that).

But coincidentally, last night I opened my fridge, saw all the lovely green, yellow, red, purple and orange vegetables and fruits in there. No oil or sugary foods in sight, nothing with a long ingredient list... and I flashed back to what my fridge might have looked like pre-McDougall.

Hmmm, food for thought there!

Back then, I was almost obsessed with fear of a heart attack or stroke. So many friends and relatives had already died or been disabled by those diseases that I felt a sense of impending doom. Only a matter of time.

I believed that it was either random, and nothing I did could could predict or prevent it from happening. Or, it was all determined by genes and I couldn't predict or prevent it.

So, in whatever remaining healthy life I had, I thought it made sense to drink alcohol when stressed, and indulge in fatty salty -vegan of course- snacks. I thought I was "healthy" because I was active, lifted weights and ate a vegan diet. "Healthy" yet in fear of sudden death or prolonged disability that I could do little or nothing nothing to prevent.

But despite the persistent fear, I was totally ignorant about the causes. I had never even bothered to even read a book about it or question the prevailing medical advice!

How as that even possible? I Can't understand my thinking back then, but I know it's actually pretty common.

It was only by accident that I stumbled upon The Starch Solution and Prevent and Reverse Heart Disease, on one very lucky day when I wandered into the wrong aisle at a book store. I realized that I actually had the power to reduce my risks. With some very simple lifestyle adjustments.

Total game change !

So I used to be one of the idiots, and now I feel enlightened and want to wake them all up..and I try to accept that it's really, really not my job.

That's hard sometimes.

[GeoffreyLevens]

Also I remember one member on this forum say that since we eat so healthfully, we don’t need to buy any health insurance, or minimal cost of health insurance. Can anyone comment on that?

La-la-la-la-la.... Anything can happen to anyone. Diet helps a lot, stacks the deck. But sometimes "nature" deals you one off the bottom. Causes of cancer include the diet and exposures of your ancestors at least back 2 or 3 generations. Probably same for many autoimmune conditions. We live on Bell curves and those out on the tail ends often take a hit. Insurance is a gamble but even if you are "the one in a million", you are still the one....

[jamietwo]

Regarding the health insurance: even if you don't get a disease, you could break your leg, or be in a car wreck, or any number of things where you would need medical attention. As much as I dislike the system, I vote for having health insurance.

[Idgie]

This is not a popular opinion in vegan circles, and I'm not saying anyone needs to agree with me, but I don't think anyone owes it to me to be healthy, or to value health the way I do. People are entitled to do whatever they want with their own bodies.

Yes and no. I look at unhealthy eating similarly to smoking - it’s poisoning your body, and then society has to come to the rescue. We have a responsibility not only to ourselves and our immediate family, but to society at large.

That's a slippery slope. Let's take it to the absurd level: I'm responsible to eat right so it doesn't cost you money if I get sick. Oh, wait, I also need to take birth control because you don't want to pay for my kids' education. And I am not allowed to think mean thoughts because it might make me rude to you in the future. I'm being ridiculous on purpose -- too often, people's ideas about what is owed to them by the people around them makes them want to regulate other people's private choices, and it quickly enters the realm of the ridiculous.

There are already laws against driving uninsured, hit-and-run, etc. Once you get to bodily autonomy issues, though, I feel that society just has to come to terms with the fact that while we are social creatures, we are also sovereign individuals with the right to make our own choices about our personal bodily decisions.

[Atheria]

Regarding the health insurance: even if you don't get a disease, you could break your leg, or be in a car wreck, or any number of things where you would need medical attention. As much as I dislike the system, I vote for having health insurance.

Sadly, I can attest to that. Because of 3 different neck injuries...my life has been destroyed. I live (exist is a better word since April's accident) with horrid head pain 24/7.

Atheria

[f00die]

yeah
health insurance is not about health at all
its pretty much a purely economic decision
pay a little now to reduce the risk of paying a lot later
and we should all wish we had medicaid (medicaid for all)
no deductibles, no copays, no premiums
only pays reasonable prices, refuses to pay for boondoggles
best health insurance in the USA