Dairy linked to lower rates of cardiovascular disease

[landog]

How do they come up with this?

https://www.morningagclips.com/dairy-linked-to-lower-rates-of-cardiovascular-disease/

[GeoffreyLevens]

Self- report dietary questionnaires computer analyzed. Not sure that's what you were asking but I tend to be pretty literal (to a fault).

Association of dairy intake with cardiovascular disease and mortality

Methods
The Prospective Urban Rural Epidemiology (PURE) study is a large multinational cohort study of individuals aged 35–70 years enrolled from 21 countries in five continents. Dietary intakes of dairy products for 136 384 individuals were recorded using country-specific validated food frequency questionnaires. Dairy products comprised milk, yoghurt, and cheese. We further grouped these foods into whole-fat and low-fat dairy. The primary outcome was the composite of mortality or major cardiovascular events (defined as death from cardiovascular causes, non-fatal myocardial infarction, stroke, or heart failure). Hazard ratios (HRs) were calculated using multivariable Cox frailty models with random intercepts to account for clustering of participants by centre.

[landog]

Self- report dietary questionnaires computer analyzed. Not sure that's what you were asking but I tend to be pretty literal (to a fault).

Thanks - I was wondering how they could possibly reach such a conclusion.

All I can think of is that the subjects of the studies must have a high cholesterol / high saturated fat diet regardless of their dairy consumption.

[gracezw]

And also who funded the study?

[gracezw]

I am very interested in hearing experts rebut this study/Lancet article.

[f1jim]

I can't get to anything but an abstract.
GeoffreyLevens your link doesn't work.
f1jim

[pundit999]

Can't see the whole paper.
I did not see where they controlled for other factors. Things such as income and access to health care. For example, in India, people who don't consume dairy might be doing that because they are too poor and don't have access to doctors, or living in squalid environment leading to more deaths.

The study also has scores of researchers across lots of countries. It is difficult to have a coherent research process across so much diversity.

Also I am not sure if they were comparing people across continents. Countries have different health care, rates of pollution, access to clean water etc. Too many factors to account for.

A better study will be to say, study just Americans and account for income/health care access etc.

[gracezw]

Jim, I hope that the full text will be available soon.

I can't get to anything but an abstract.
GeoffreyLevens your link doesn't work.
f1jim

[gracezw]

Pundit, what you have said makes a lot of sense to me.

I recall that last month there was a thread called “New study: there is no safe level of alcohol consumption.” It is here:
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=58491&p=588196&hilit=+no+safe+level+of+alcohol+#p588196

It is also based on a lancet article, covers 195 countries and territories for 26 years. Its full text is available here:
https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanc ... 40-6736(18)31310-2/fulltext

I haven’t read the full text, but I do notice at the top this:
“Open access funded by Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation”

I worry that people who don’t want to give up alcohol would attack this anti-alcohol global long-term study with the same reasoning as or similar reasoning to yours here. What do you think?

[GeoffreyLevens]

Fixed the link above and reposted here. For some reason I have to do the formatting; site screws it up

Association of dairy intake with cardiovascular disease and mortality

{Would have done it sooner but I never (past couple years) get notifications of posts or pm's anymore. I have tried everything I could w/ forum settings and emailed to admin complaining but I only find things if/when I actually come here and look for them.]

[patty]

Fixed the link above and reposted here. For some reason I have to do the formatting; site screws it up

Association of dairy intake with cardiovascular disease and mortality

{Would have done it sooner but I never (past couple years) get notifications of posts or pm's anymore. I have tried everything I could w/ forum settings and emailed to admin complaining but I only find things if/when I actually come here and look for them.]

When I post I get email updates when someone responds, so it must be a glitch. I have to log in each time, regardless of clicking the box that says to keep me in which is minor. Hopefully Jim or Jeff will be able to fix it where you get notifications.

Aloha, patty

[pundit999]

Pundit, what you have said makes a lot of sense to me.
I recall that last month there was a thread called “New study: there is no safe level of alcohol consumption.” It is here:
It is also based on a lancet article, covers 195 countries and territories for 26 years. Its full text is available here:
I worry that people who don’t want to give up alcohol would attack this anti-alcohol global long-term study with the same reasoning as or similar reasoning to yours here. What do you think?

May be. It is all in the details which we don't have. (The link posted earlier does not give the full text without you paying them some money. May be somebody who has access can post just the portion that talks about controls?)

I was just conjecturing based on what the abstract only reveals. It does not say anything about controls in the methods section.

Anyway that alcohol study is the farthest thing from a watershed moment: effect of alcohol was found to be only nominally bad for the most part.

[f1jim]

While there may be mixed data on the use of alcohol and it's effect on health Dr. McDougall does not recommend or promote the use of alcohol as a beverage.
Everyone is free to make their own choice in this regard. Dr. McDougall has various talks on the subject. Jeff Novick also has some resources.
f1jim

[SeekKnowledge]

How do they come up with this?

https://www.morningagclips.com/dairy-linked-to-lower-rates-of-cardiovascular-disease/

Both Harvard and Marion Nestle (a past McDougall speaker) say that they do it by having poor methods.

https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritions ... isleading/

"Large-scale efforts to study the health effects of diet in developing countries are important, but this study is fraught with methodological problems—especially confounding by different degrees of socio-economical development in different countries and questionable dietary intake data."

https://www.foodpolitics.com/2017/09/th ... skeptical/

"The PURE study warrants some skepticism"

If you just Google "pure study" there are lots of answers to your question. And it should not
surprise anyone that the "AG Clips, farming news", (your link) is pushing it to market dairy.

[gracezw]

May be. It is all in the details which we don't have. (The link posted earlier does not give the full text without you paying them some money. May be somebody who has access can post just the portion that talks about controls?)

I was just conjecturing based on what the abstract only reveals. It does not say anything about controls in the methods section.

Anyway that alcohol study is the farthest thing from a watershed moment: effect of alcohol was found to be only nominally bad for the most part.

Yes, I agree that we need to read the full text for further discussion.

Why do you say “that alcohol study is the farthest thing from a watershed moment: effect of alcohol was found to be only nominally bad for the most part?” I thought that the effect of alcohol was found to be more seriously bad.

In findings, it says, “The level of alcohol consumption that minimised harm across health outcomes was zero (95% UI 0·0–0·8) standard drinks per week.” In Interpretation, it says, “Alcohol use is a leading risk factor for global disease burden and causes substantial health loss. We found that the risk of all-cause mortality, and of cancers specifically, rises with increasing levels of consumption, and the level of consumption that minimises health loss is zero. These results suggest that alcohol control policies might need to be revised worldwide, refocusing on efforts to lower overall population-level consumption.”