If you have heart disease?

[Poison Ivy]

Is it or isn't it safe to weight train if you adopt a healthy WFPB diet?

Thoughts anyone?


Thanks--

[colonyofcells]

If the heart disease has been reversed already, I would guess that it would be safe to do some weight training. I heard some weight training is needed to avoid losing the bones and muscles.

[Chikiwing]

Is it or isn't it safe to weight train if you adopt a healthy WFPB diet?

Thoughts anyone?


Thanks--

I think not.

[Poison Ivy]

Why do you think it might be dangerous? I am not talking about lifting really heavy.

[Drew_ab]

First, I would consult with your doctor/cardiologist.

Second, I would speculate that light weightlifting is fine - there isn't likely any longevity benefit from lifting heavy weights anyway.

Third, you'll want to do other cardiovascular exercise like brisk walking, cycling, etc, - whatever you are interested in (pending #1 of course).

[f1jim]

I believe that while much of the symptoms of heart disease can be reduced or eliminated we will still have compromised arteries in terms of capacity to flow blood. If the heart can't get enough blood to keep up with the physical demands put on it bad things can happen. This is where a professional must be part of the process. Obviously walking, gardening, any light physical exertion is probably safe. Weight training? Probably depends on how much weight, for what period of exertion. We are designed to move our bodies, even when they are somewhat compromised. But how much physical exertion on that compromised body is a judgement call. Even for your medical professional. Get some exercise in. But play it safe. Get the best professional advice you can. It's not cool to have people looking down on you saying he died doing what made him happy.
f1jim

[Chikiwing]

Why do you think it might be dangerous? I am not talking about lifting really heavy.

When you say weight train I picture someone lifting heavy weights. And that puts a lot of stress on the heart. Most people don't need weight training anyways. If you can't do a 50 push-up set you have no need for a weight room and bench presses.

You can get in very good shape just using body weight. Push-ups, pull-ups, squats, jogging etc.

[JeffN]

I believe that while much of the symptoms of heart disease can be reduced or eliminated we will still have compromised arteries in terms of capacity to flow blood. If the heart can't get enough blood to keep up with the physical demands put on it bad things can happen. This is where a professional must be part of the process. Obviously walking, gardening, any light physical exertion is probably safe.

Just to piggyback on this...

At Pritikin, exercise was a key component of the program including sessions of intervals and somewhat more vigorous exercise. However, every patient underwent a Stress Test before exercising and was given an exercise prescription based on the results of their stress test and/or any medications they are on. They were also matched into groups based on the their capacity.

While we don't do the stress testing at the 10-Day, it is not an issue because only light to light-moderate aerobic exercise is available.

Occasionally, at both centers, special limits are place on a patient due to their capacity and medical/health issues.

In Health
Jeff

[sirdle]

At Pritikin, exercise was a key component of the program including sessions of intervals and somewhat more vigorous exercise. However, every patient underwent a Stress Test before exercising and was given an exercise prescription based on the results of their stress test and/or any medications they are on.

Jeff - are the results of a stress test obvious and unambiguous? Or do they greatly depend on skill of the person conducting the test and their interpretation of the results?

Cheers,

[JeffN]

At Pritikin, exercise was a key component of the program including sessions of intervals and somewhat more vigorous exercise. However, every patient underwent a Stress Test before exercising and was given an exercise prescription based on the results of their stress test and/or any medications they are on.

Jeff - are the results of a stress test obvious and unambiguous? Or do they greatly depend on skill of the person conducting the test and their interpretation of the results?

Cheers,

I don't know any medical/health test where you couldn't ask those same questions. They use only high quality equipment and highly trained experts to do the tests.

However, I am more curious as to why you ask?

In Health
Jeff

[sirdle]

However, I am more curious as to why you ask?

A reasonable question. You might think I have a reasonable answer... but I don't.

My life is changing in so many ways I hardly remember who I was, and I'm not sure who I'm going to become. I used to believe that exercise was the most important thing -- that it trumped diet, and as long as you exercised hard enough and long enough you could eat anything you wanted. Then I grew up, got a car, got a profession, and got fat. I still exercised, but every time I got sick... or injured... or whenever work pressure reduced my exercise time, I got fatter.

Now I believe that diet trumps everything, but I am still trying to figure out where exercise, flexibility, social relationships, stress management and meditation fit in.

My preferred type of daily exercise is an indoor rowing machine. But I find it boring unless I mix up the workouts -- long, slow distance... sprint intervals... endurance intervals... technique sessions. I enjoy exploring my limits, but now I'm rethinking this... just as I have rethought my ideas on nutrition.

I lived for many years on a SAD. I don't know how much damage to my heart and arteries I have sustained. I don't have any symptoms, but I wonder how hard I can push myself.

So, if the answer to my question (and a few unasked questions) was:

1. The stress test is without risk.
2. The results are unambiguous
3. You can use the result to structure an exercise program.

... then I would do a stress test in a heartbeat.

However, based on other things you have written, I would guess the answers are:

1. There is always a risk with any type of medical procedure
2. The results may not tell you anything you don't already know.
3. If you don't have any symptoms and don't go to extremes, you don't need a stress test. Listen to your body, get adequate exercise, and don't sweat the details. Focus on living your life, instead.

Cheers,

[JeffN]

I don't know you or your situation so my comments are general comments

Now I believe that diet trumps everything, but I am still trying to figure out where exercise, flexibility, social relationships, stress management and meditation fit in.

I hope you have read or will read my thread on "exercise and you, how much is enough" as it puts it in proper perspective.

My preferred type of daily exercise is an indoor rowing machine.

Concept D?

But I find it boring unless I mix up the workouts -- long, slow distance... sprint intervals... endurance intervals... technique sessions. I enjoy exploring my limits, but now I'm rethinking this... just as I have rethought my ideas on nutrition.

Someone can mix it up themselves (type, intensity, etc) without pushing their limits if that is a concern.

I lived for many years on a SAD. I don't know how much damage to my heart and arteries I have sustained. I don't have any symptoms, but I wonder how hard I can push myself.

Welcome to the club.

There are other ways to evaluate risk including blood work.

So, if the answer to my question (and a few unasked questions) was:
The stress test is without risk.

Depends. First, a maximal stress test (which we did not do at Pritikin except for rare occasions) definitely has more risk, especially for someone with disease, as it pushes you to your ultimate max. An exercise (or stress or sub-maximal) tolerance test (usually) has less risk as it only goes to a certain point based on (and to see) your responses.

The results are unambiguous

The are fairly accurate if done right. If done right and someone fails it, the likelihood is fairly good there is an issue. If done right and someone passes it, there is no guarantee, they still may have underlying disease.

You can use the result to structure an exercise program
... then I would do a stress test in a heartbeat.

Not necessary. A person can do it themselves by doing some self experimentation.

However, based on other things you have written, I would guess the answers are:
There is always a risk with any type of medical procedure

Correct.

The results may not tell you anything you don't already know.

Depends on the person and situation.

if you don't have any symptoms and don't go to extremes,

We don't recommend extremes in anything, diet, exercise, etc.

Listen to your body, get adequate exercise, and don't sweat the details. Focus on living your life, instead.

Works most all the time.

In Health
Jeff

[sirdle]

Now I believe that diet trumps everything, but I am still trying to figure out where exercise, flexibility, social relationships, stress management and meditation fit in.

I hope you have read or will read my thread on "exercise and you, how much is enough" as it puts it in proper perspective.

Yes. That was the thread that got me thinking about all this. There is a lot of information there, and I need to read it several more times.

My preferred type of daily exercise is an indoor rowing machine.

Concept D?

Yes. A Concept 2, model D

I lived for many years on a SAD. I don't know how much damage to my heart and arteries I have sustained. I don't have any symptoms, but I wonder how hard I can push myself.

Welcome to the club.

There are other ways to evaluate risk including blood work.

Do you mean triglycerides, cholesterol and blood pressure? Or are there other markers?

So, if the answer to my question (and a few unasked questions) was:
The stress test is without risk.

Depends. First, a maximal stress test (which we did not do at Pritikin except for rare occasions) definitely has more risk, especially for someone with disease, as it pushes you to your ultimate max. An exercise (or stress or sub-maximal) tolerance test (usually) has less risk as it only goes to a certain point based on (and to see) your responses.

The results are unambiguous

The are fairly accurate if done right. If done right and someone fails it, the likelihood is fairly good there is an issue. If done right and someone passes it, there is no guarantee, they still may have underlying disease.

Good to know!

Listen to your body, get adequate exercise, and don't sweat the details. Focus on living your life, instead.

Works most all the time.

I want to take this opportunity to thank you for all your hard work. Your writings are always clear, concise, and factual -- without melodrama -- and your presentations introduce humour and positive energy into what could be a very dry subject.

Cheers,

[JeffN]

There are other ways to evaluate risk including blood work.

Do you mean triglycerides, cholesterol and blood pressure? Or are there other markers?

Yes, the basics are still fairly good including the basic lipid panel, BP, etc. There are a few others, but without symptoms they are usually not indicated, like hs-CRP, APO B, the cholesterol sub-fractions. There is also a non-invasive Carotid-IMT.

I want to take this opportunity to thank you for all your hard work. Your writings are always clear, concise, and factual -- without melodrama -- and your presentations introduce humour and positive energy into what could be a very dry subject.

Cheers,

Thanks

In Health
Jeff

[Poison Ivy]

To JeffN--
Describe what you do for exercise personally please and what is your current age? I take it you don't do any resistance training, but I can't tell from these exchanges so just let me hear it from the horse's mouth.

Like Colony said, don't you need some resistance training as you age to keep your bones healthy and strong and your muscles from atrophy?