What The Hell Is Wrong With People?!!!

For those questions and discussions on the McDougall program that don’t seem to fit in any other forum.

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Re: What The Hell Is Wrong With People?!!!

Postby Ron4310 » Mon Mar 13, 2017 5:11 pm

I ♡ Fava Beans wrote: insisted she can't quit smoking and that she's not smoking very much anymore anyway. I said, "Yes you can. Just stop putting cigarettes in your mouth." She put another cigarette in her mouth. :|
End of rant.

When people tell me they can't quit smoking I always come back with, "Don't give me that BS!" And proceed to tell them that I stopped smoking 50 or more cigarettes a day 46 years ago - cold turkey. My sister had to end up with a collapsed lung twice and then 1/2 a lung removed before she quit and her husband still smokes.
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Re: What The Hell Is Wrong With People?!!!

Postby Poison Ivy » Mon Mar 13, 2017 5:55 pm

petmomful wrote:I know this is and old thread but I wonder this all the time. I recently spoke with a young woman at a party. She works for a lung specialist and told me about all the horrible things she sees at work, people who can't breath, and need lung transplants. She told me all this while she sat there smoking. I was dumbfounded. :-(
Wow, not funny but your post gave me a chuckle. Some people are incredible.
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Re: What The Hell Is Wrong With People?!!!

Postby 3kidlets » Mon Mar 13, 2017 6:56 pm

I know a Oncology Nurse that is a chain smoker. :shock:
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Re: What The Hell Is Wrong With People?!!!

Postby Dampy » Tue Mar 14, 2017 9:06 am

I ♡ Fava Beans wrote:I just want to say that while I'm not going to respond to each post individually, I have read every one and I appreciate all the replies. You all make excellent points. Thank you.

Update: My friend got a new e-cig so she's back on that. So I guess that's a good thing? I don't really understand e-cigs so I have no clue if they're a whole lot better than real cigarettes.



E-cigarettes are definately much less harmful than cigarettes. Of course inhaling just clean air is best, but I would say e-cigarettes are a big improvement to cigarettes. Your friend is an adult and she has to make her own choices regarding her health. I believe that eating well is the most important to the body.

I personally love my e-cigs. I make my own liquids, just as I like them. And I hardly ever smoke anymore. Occasionally I smoke at a party or something like that. But not very often. And when I do, I don't even like it anymore. Just as with the food actually. I prefer my own McDougall style meals above any restaurant meal.
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Re: What The Hell Is Wrong With People?!!!

Postby bbq » Tue Mar 14, 2017 9:49 am

Despite proper nutrition, their arteries were spared but not their lungs:

http://books.google.com/books?id=WDjZpJXEQwkC&pg=PT39
Dr. Esselstyn wrote:One case in point: the Papua Highlanders of New Guinea. These people are traditionally heavy smokers. Even nonsmokers among them breathe in lethal doses of secondhand smoke in communal hutches. Not surprisingly, the Papua Highlanders suffer many lung disorders, thanks to the smoking. But studies of those who live into their sixties and beyond have shown that despite the well-documented risk to heart health that is posed by smoking, they have no coronary artery disease. They are protected by their diet, which consists almost entirely of nineteen separate varieties of sweet potatoes.
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Re: What The Hell Is Wrong With People?!!!

Postby Skip » Tue Mar 14, 2017 2:41 pm

People have the right and the freedom to choose to kill themselves.....and they seem to do a very good job at it!
"The fundamental principle of ethics is reverence for life" Albert Schweitzer
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Re: What The Hell Is Wrong With People?!!!

Postby patty » Tue Mar 14, 2017 4:38 pm

Skip wrote:People have the right and the freedom to choose to kill themselves.....and they seem to do a very good job at it!


Yes, it is our subconscious death urge. That is why in Jeff Novick's Calorie Density dvd (which is temporary online) shares we subconsciously EAT the SAME Amount of WEIGHT of FOOD DAIlY. The subconscious mind is like the computer processor, a million times faster than the key board, the wishes and dream mind. 95% of hospital visits are from lifestyle, 95% of our day is habit. That is why the learning curve of this WOE, is very deep. The lover and the killer are One. Life is cradle to cradle vs. birth to death. It is a on going process of being aware we don't even breathe. We are what is in-between the awake mind and the dreaming mind.

Aloha, patty
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Re: What The Hell Is Wrong With People?!!!

Postby Thrasymachus » Thu Mar 16, 2017 9:04 am

Like I write so many times most people suck and only can perceive a better life in terms of getting more $$$(higher salary) in their paycheck or being able to afford more $$$(expensive) material objects. On that there is widespread agreement: that a car that is more expensive will improve your quality of life compared to a cheaper car. Even though that is a stupid and fallacious life philosophy that is what most people believe and invest their life in, they will be pissed if the material objects they invest their life energy in are scartched, destroyed or stolen, but if you offer most greasy food, alcohol, cigars, etc. it is a good way to get lots of fair-weather fake friends. Even though it is obvious most people don't want to realize material objects can be replaced but you only get one human body. But there is widespread disagreement on following the "don'ts" of good health: don't drink, don't smoke, don't do drugs, don't eat meat, don't eat other animal products. Most people will disagree with you that following such a life path is an improvement, they will whine it is too austere, bring forth myths about moderation, make comments that their unhealthy habits are "enjoying life", etc. Indeed following the "don'ts" leads to social isolation and feelings of loneliness. Yet the same people would agree that aging slower visibly and having your body more intact than otherwise as you age, would be positive life improvements, it is just they will disagree that the "don'ts" can achieve that, instead whining about "genetics". But many especially women believe in hocus pocus nonsense facial creams and lathers that allege to delay skin aging but are infact worthless, heavily marketed, sold at heavy markups, massively purchased and consumed.

I had a similar issue with my dad who had stage four colorectal cancer and was a lifelong smoker. I thought if I got him electronic cigerrates he might stop smoking. He ended up just smoking regular cigerrates and also the e-cigs. So then I decided to get him nicotine gum, maybe that would work. It only ended up in the worst of all scenarios, he still smoked regular cigerrates, but also used the e-cig and the nicotine gum! At issue is that a large majority of the population apparently lack any self discipline. Recently I watched this excellent documentary series thanks to Reddit's /r/megalinks, SBS: Predict My Future: The Science Of Us
:
http://www.sbs.com.au/ondemand/program/ ... ence-of-us

It exposed me to the famous Stanford Marshmellow experiment:
The Atlantic wrote:https://www.theatlantic.com/health/arch ... ol/380673/

It began in the early 1960s at Stanford University’s Bing Nursery School, where Mischel and his graduate students gave children the choice between one reward (like a marshmallow, pretzel, or mint) they could eat immediately, and a larger reward (two marshmallows) for which they would have to wait alone, for up to 20 minutes. Years later, Mischel and his team followed up with the Bing preschoolers and found that children who had waited for the second marshmallow generally fared better in life.


Also as regards to getting tumors removed, there are companies that offer tests that allow you to see if and how many circulating tumor stem cells you have in your bloodstream. Your friend with poor lifestyle habits very well could have only had one detectable tumor, but such circulating tumor stem cells in her blood and other undetectable tumors already. In which case the cutting strategy will often prove counter-productive. But people with poor lifestyle habits tend to have other bad habits like refusing to read and self-educate themselves as well.
Last edited by Thrasymachus on Thu Mar 16, 2017 10:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What The Hell Is Wrong With People?!!!

Postby hope101 » Thu Mar 16, 2017 10:24 am

Thrasymachus wrote:...there is widespread agreement: that a car that is more expensive will improve your quality of life compared to a cheaper car. ...that is what most people believe and invest their life in, they will be pissed if the material objects they invest their life energy in are scartched, destroyed or stolen, but if you offer most greasy food, alcohol, cigars, etc. it is a good way to get lots of fair-weather fake friends. Even though it is obvious most people don't want to realize material objects can be replaced but you only get one human body.


You know, I truly love that metaphor and visual; instead of being offered a cheeseburger or sundae, you are being asked whether you'd like to have the only car you'll ever own keyed or dented with a sledgehammer. :-D

Somehow puts it on a different level.
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Re: What The Hell Is Wrong With People?!!!

Postby patty » Thu Mar 16, 2017 11:05 am

Thrasymachus"

It exposed me to the famous Stanford Marshmellow experiment:
[quote="The Atlantic wrote:
https://www.theatlantic.com/health/arch ... ol/380673/

It began in the early 1960s at Stanford University’s Bing Nursery School, where Mischel and his graduate students gave children the choice between one reward (like a marshmallow, pretzel, or mint) they could eat immediately, and a larger reward (two marshmallows) for which they would have to wait alone, for up to 20 minutes. Years later, Mischel and his team followed up with the Bing preschoolers and found that children who had waited for the second marshmallow generally fared better in life.


I have been listening to Bruce Lipton Love vs. Fear Stress Effect On ... In essence he shares differences between the front brain and hind brain, and which one responds with our perception of reality. Yes, No and Wait, is the thinking of the front brain. https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=br ... &FORM=VIRE

Aloha, patty
Last edited by patty on Thu Mar 16, 2017 11:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What The Hell Is Wrong With People?!!!

Postby Thrasymachus » Thu Mar 16, 2017 11:13 am

@hope101:
That is why I cannot respect people in general, and don't really care to meet new people. Their life priorities, mentality and attitude simply sucks. They will help you do negative things and not positive things, etc. The average person hasn't learned in their entire lives that life can be improved in non-monetary or material ways and if you offer them where to get alternative viewpoints they will whine about reading books, or even watching documentaries.

For a small example I want to watch What the Health, which just became available online for paid streaming:
https://vimeo.com/ondemand/whatthehealth

Now if I asked friends or family:
Do you want to watch <insert mindless Big budget Hollywood film> I will pay to stream it? I would get alot of positive replies and easily be able to watch it with someone else. But for a documentary like that one? I will probably end up watching it by myself again. It is a less of a time commitment to watch that movie than actually change your diet or lifestyle. The ultimate fault lies at the feet of a society that focuses on material well being, that teaches people they should only learn when it can offer a possible monetary reward, which would mean only through officially recognized accredited schooling that can possibly lead to more money. People are taught to seek instant gratification that celebrated vices provide them and they severely underestimate the downsides and even if you offer suggestions of documentaries or TV programs that will package the downsides in an easy to consume format they will whine about the hour or more it takes to watch them and instead watch the next action movie or comedy with their free time. But they will still want to argue and repeat myths created by the tobacco industry, the animal agricultural industries, etc.
Last edited by Thrasymachus on Thu Mar 16, 2017 11:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What The Hell Is Wrong With People?!!!

Postby roundcoconut » Thu Mar 16, 2017 11:35 am

People are very weird! There is a certain Stockholm Syndrome, whereby the heart patient swears utter allegiance to 1) their cardiologist, and 2) their cheese. Meanwhile, they cast a suspicious eye on exercise, tangerines, cauliflower and fresh air.

The idea that many people are addicts goes a long way toward explaining their bizarre and baffling behavior. They furiously rationalize staying in their addiction!

If people learn some hard truths and turn their lives around, then great. But I am not hoping for the world to change! At most, I hope to have a couple dozen people to keep me company as I try to stay in more or less good health.

The SAD foods are so pernicious and they are so stimulating! Believe me, I get this.
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Re: What The Hell Is Wrong With People?!!!

Postby I ♡ Fava Beans » Thu Mar 16, 2017 11:50 am

i just heard of another person... this one is more of an acquaintance than a friend... who's in hospital because he had a heart attack and they rushed him into surgery. He's a smoker too. Apparently he convinced the staff to take him outside several times a day to smoke. His argument is that the stress it would put on his heart to quit smoking cold turkey would pose a greater risk to him than smoking which relaxes him.

I guess you have to be a smoker to understand this logic.
IT'S NOT A DIET
IT'S CALLED EATING HEALTHY
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Re: What The Hell Is Wrong With People?!!!

Postby roundcoconut » Thu Mar 16, 2017 1:05 pm

People are irritable and miserable when they are forcibly separated from their addiction. I can imagine why the nurses would allow a smoker to go be with their disease! Not for the guy's peace of mind, but for their own.

Interestingly, there've been a couple times where someone who drinks fairly regularly and fairly heavily at my place of work, gets arrested for DUI and loses his license. In most cases, they learn how to get around without a license, rather than learn to get around without alcohol.

Food addicts are no different. In OA, people commonly talk about how food had become their master and their god. Their thoughts revolved around getting their alcoholic food and eating it. Everything else came in a distant second place!

I can easily see this pattern in myself -- a compulsion to get binge food and binge on it. Even when people have food patterns that feel very isolating and debilitating, some people will accommodate the sugars, flours, fats and salts, and turn a cold shoulder to their talents and their social needs and their bodily health. But to turn a cold shoulder to the binge foods? Almost unthnkable to some people.

To anyone who thinks that smokers are the most pathetic addicts, get cosy with a binge eater some day, because I think we are some of the nutttiest nut-cases out there! Honest to god, on a week where I have three consecutive binge days, you would gladly trade me in for a pack-a-day smoker!

Well, it is a total mess, and I think I am very much among the crazy addicts at times! Every day brings new choices, which means that every day brings opportunities for good choices, mediocre choices or debilitating choices -- up to each person!
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Re: What The Hell Is Wrong With People?!!!

Postby I ♡ Fava Beans » Thu Mar 16, 2017 4:46 pm

Excellent post, roundcoconut.
IT'S NOT A DIET
IT'S CALLED EATING HEALTHY
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