7 in 10 people are overweight and in denial

[amandamechele]

Patty -

I agree with what you are saying about control dramas. Thank you for the reminder. This issue appears to be my "hot-button".

Amy

[roundcoconut]

Yes! People who have a moth-to-flame response to various forms of disrespect or hatred, seem to be playing out a weird kind of psychology. There can be 20 responses in a thread, and the one they'll direct their attention to, is the one that is dripping with idunno, ignorance or arrogance.

It is like being at a cocktail party with 19 wonderful people, and one not-so-wonderful person, and you are in the habit of making a beeline to go spend your night talking to the not-so-wonderful person. What kinda self-torture is that???

I will say that I think it can be useful to simply "block" the posters who feel most out of step with your values. When you do this, you'll find yourself reading a thread, and it'll say, "so-and-so is on your blocked list. Click here to show the full post", and so you will see everyone's comment except theirs.

We take ourselves off of mailing lists that are not in step with our values. Why not take ourselves off the "distribution list" of people who seem to carry an air of drama, bullying or victimhood?

Perhaps that can be of help to someone?

[GlennR]

Why not take ourselves off the "distribution list" of people who seem to carry an air of drama, bullying or victimhood?

I think, the answer for me, is to keep reading the posts of those I don't necessarily agree with otherwise I'll never understand them or hope to bridge the gap between our ways of thinking. I think that we often sit in our own cliques talking with people we already agree with and don't challenge ourselves to face differing opinions and differing styles of communication. That's not to say I wouldn't block someone I thought abusive but the moderators tend to weed those out over time.

Anyway, I think everyone needs to do what works for them.

[vgpedlr]

Scratch a liberal and you'll find a hypocrite every time.

Yup, scratch me and instead of 119 chol. blood coming out, it's hypocritical ooze. Colored differently, like Vulcan blood.

For the love of Allah, these insults are getting tedious. I suppose it's nearly time for more vegan bashing. Come to think of it, no one has piled on Dr. Fuhrman lately.

I guess I'm not surprised that even Star McDougallers are staying away or deleting accounts.

'Tis the season?

[Franchesca_S.]

Did anyone see the PBS program in which two families lived as homesteaders on the Canadian prairie? Lots of physical labor with no processed food. Eventually one of the men went to the doctor because he was worried about being emaciated. The doctor told him that he was actually slim, fit and at a healthy weight but as a culture our idea of "normal" is now so much larger than it was.

I have about 35 lbs to lose. My (similarly sized) coworkers always act surprised that I want to lose weight.

I occasionally take classes at local community college campuses and I'm saddened and amazed by how many fat kids there are. I don't write this as fat shaming but out of concern. At this age they are relatively free to be active. It will only become harder to lose the weight as they begin their careers chained to desks and computers and eating the SAD.

[katgirl55]

I think the phrase, "It's the food" is the right one here. It's not bodies that we are (primarily) in denial about -- it's the food.

...

So we kinda keep our mouths shut about their bodies (which I think is polite and appropriate), until we can be open and honest about the food.

It's the food, its the food, it's the food. The internal and external damage to the bodies are just byproducts -- no sense in even paying much attention to HOW the damage and burdens to the body are manifesting! Just that we know they ARE manifesting, in obvious ways and less obvious ways.

I agree with this 100%. In my weight loss program we were taught to set goals based on behavior and not on what the scale says, because that is what we can control. It didn't make sense at first, but focusing on the cause and not the symptom now seems very obvious. I often say here that you cannot know what someone's story is just by looking at them. The snapshot of my obese body today doesn't tell you that I used to be much heavier, lost a good amount of weight, and am now eating plant-based to lose the remainder.

As for the athletes: for a long time females were taught that muscle was undesirable and "manly" but that has changed. A lot of women athletes are bulky because they are carrying more muscle. Serena Williams has a different body shape than Chris Evert did back in the 80s. These are strong active women.

[katgirl55]

I just saw this bodybuilder on YouTube defending having a gut as a man by saying it means he's more virile! What?!

Bodybuilders often have a protruding stomach as a result of the steroids and other pharmaceuticals they take. Growth hormone is a culprit, and also gives them the bulbous nose and brow that looks like a caveman.

[JuicerJohn]

100% agree, I don't really understand why anyone wants to "shame" anyone else about anything.

I do.

And somehow all this Anti-Shaming rhetoric ends up producing women on magazine covers that look like the ones I show here. It all sounds good, like communism, but when it's implemented it's a disaster because it doesn't take into account human nature.

Just one question, who made you a judge over them? Or who made you. A judge over the posters here that you call out as liberal hypocrites?

If there are acceptable forms of speech, I take it you have no problem when you are the target of such speech? You just accept it without comment?

It seems to me that these forums are becoming ever less civil. I think that is a bad mistake.

[Chikiwing]

I understand your and some other poster's point. You worry that the media and body positive groups are going to convince people this is the new normal, that being fat is healthy.

I worry 13 year old impressionable young ladies are going to hear the foolish fat acceptance message and act in a manner that is detrimental to their well-being. I'm sure it's happening.

But doesn't your argument about human nature work against this? Men tend to find younger, healthier and fit females more attractive then those who are not. Obese women are having this signalled to them everyday, so don't you worry, they know it!

This goes both ways. If I'm 5′ 9″ and 300 pounds are the women going to be eager to grace my bedroom doorway? I don't think so!

Yes. It does go against nature. That's why fat acceptance is doomed to failure. But, the impressionable young people can very easily dig themselves a 150 pound hole with medical problems before they get enough life experience (wisdom) to know this philosophy is absurd.

They are just trying to find other ways to gain self-esteem in order to get through all other aspects of
life while trying to figure out the very complex and difficult problem of what they believe is eating under the hunger drive for the very long amount of time required to actually take off a large amount of weight. I feel you may be virtue signalling as you look down on them for not having the same understanding and knowledge about diet that you already do.

Who are, "they?" I wouldn't look down on a young person who believes the fat acceptance message. I think they are victims. But the champions of fat acceptance, the people pushing it, Oh yes, I do look down on them and worse. With scorn.

I take issue with your message's tone and use of the phrase fat shaming because it indicates you want
to say something that hurts, or makes uncomfortable, another individual in hopes that it affects a change in their behaviour to your desired goal. Most people associate the word shame with toxic shame and that is why I think your strategy does not work.

I also think the beginning of this article effectively addresses the points brought up in the media link that you posted.(I do not have time for the other link about Ana, so I cannot comment there). Maybe our disagreement here all comes down to semantics !

It might be a semantics.

When I say "fat shaming," I don't mean ridiculing the obese woman at the supermarket buying chocolate. I don't mean laughing and mocking the person who can't fit in an airplane seat. That's not me and it's not what I'm talking about.

I'm talking about being allowed to give an honest assessment of someones weight and appearance. As far as I can tell that's called "fat shaming," by the champions of fat acceptance.

[vgpedlr]

[In my weight loss program we were taught to set goals based on behavior and not on what the scale says, because that is what we can control. It didn't make sense at first, but focusing on the cause and not the symptom now seems very obvious.

I think this is so important, it deserves its own thread.

Tracking progress is great, but it doesn't happen fast enough. Tracking behaviors can happen every day and you always know well you're doing, if you track it. I recently "got" this by reading the book Fat Loss Happens on Monday by Josh Hillis. I read it because it's co-authored by a strength coach I've learned lots from. They describe the approach that's worked best for clients over the years, and the two foundations are a detailed food log, and an incremental approach to changing food behaviors. While its nutritional advice is rooted in the typical personal training advice of protein and healthy fat, it is not particularly dogmatic, and the behavioral approach is compatible. The clever title refers to making meal planning, shopping, and prep the #1 priority. So it happens first thing in the week, before any workouts.

I often say here that you cannot know what someone's story is just by looking at them. The snapshot of my obese body today doesn't tell you that I used to be much heavier, lost a good amount of weight, and am now eating plant-based to lose the remainder.

Yes, a point I tried to make.

Asf or the athletes: for a long time females were taught that muscle was undesirable and "manly" but that has changed.

A welcome change. But I won't lie, some of those women cross fitters scare me.

[katgirl55]

I will say that I think it can be useful to simply "block" the posters who feel most out of step with your values. When you do this, you'll find yourself reading a thread, and it'll say, "so-and-so is on your blocked list. Click here to show the full post", and so you will see everyone's comment except theirs.

We take ourselves off of mailing lists that are not in step with our values. Why not take ourselves off the "distribution list" of people who seem to carry an air of drama, bullying or victimhood?

Perhaps that can be of help to someone?

This has been a great help to me. But I will warn you that even though you may not see that person's original post, you will be able to see the posts of other people quoting them. Sometimes it is best to steer clear of these types of threads that will just devolve into a debate about fat shaming or some other controversial topic. We are a great group here, don't let a few people spoil it for you.

[katgirl55]

Tracking progress is great, but it doesn't happen fast enough. Tracking behaviors can happen every day and you always know well you're doing, if you track it. I recently "got" this by reading the book Fat Loss Happens on Monday by Josh Hillis. I read it because it's co-authored by a strength coach I've learned lots from. They describe the approach that's worked best for clients over the years, and the two foundations are a detailed food log, and an incremental approach to changing food behaviors. While its nutritional advice is rooted in the typical personal training advice of protein and healthy fat, it is not particularly dogmatic, and the behavioral approach is compatible. The clever title refers to making meal planning, shopping, and prep the #1 priority. So it happens first thing in the week, before any workouts.
...

A welcome change. But I won't lie, some of those women cross fitters scare me.

That sounds like a great book to check out and the behavioral and tracking advice are pretty much universal to any diet you choose. It can be very rewarding to track food and exercise.

Cross fitters scare me too, but more because of the obsessiveness than anything else. Most women will not gain huge muscle without pharmaceutical assistance or a natural hormone imbalance. I think a lot of women are changing their views on the ideal body and realize that being strong is a good thing.

[Kaye]

100% agree, I don't really understand why anyone wants to "shame" anyone else about anything.

I do.

And somehow all this Anti-Shaming rhetoric ends up producing women on magazine covers that look like the ones I show here. It all sounds good, like communism, but when it's implemented it's a disaster because it doesn't take into account human nature.

Its not anti shaming rhetoric to ask for sensitivity to other peoples feelings. Surely human nature is about kindness to others not being judgemental of them and their bodies. A body is just a shell, its the spirit inside it that matters. I would still rather be fat and kind than slim and unkind or judgemental. Better still I would prefer to be slim and kind and will continue to strive for that

[JuicerJohn]

It's not anti shaming rhetoric to ask for sensitivity to other peoples feelings. Surely human nature is about kindness to others not being judgemental of them and their bodies. A body is just a shell, its the spirit inside it that matters. I would still rather be fat and kind than slim and unkind or judgemental. Better still I would prefer to be slim and kind and will continue to strive for that

+1

Right on Kaye! I don't think a little sensitivity or compassion is asking too much.

[patty]

Its not anti shaming rhetoric to ask for sensitivity to other peoples feelings. Surely human nature is about kindness to others not being judgemental of them and their bodies. A body is just a shell, its the spirit inside it that matters. I would still rather be fat and kind than slim and unkind or judgemental. Better still I would prefer to be slim and kind and will continue to strive for that

Addiction is a disease, that tells the addict they don't have a disease. Denial isn't a river in Egypt. Anyone body shaming is comparing empirical forms vs identifying with the Spirit. We all have a light body in a empirical world. In Japan they have abandoned the word Alzheimer's as it over rides the Spirit. And is disrespectful as they believe everything is Spirit.

The OP posted about the doctor telling her mother she needed the extra weight to lose when she got cancer. Our medical system operates on the No Placebo. The gift of these forums is the data, information Dr Mc Dougall and the members provides. Our No's get stronger vs just folding whatever the doctor says. We are all a work in progress because we don't know what tomorrow will bring. Your truth shines!!!

Aloha, patty