need some help

[dailycarbs]

there seem to be two different approaches discussed on this board 1st about eating starch and a bit of veg as condiments and a couple of fruits and another about eating a lot of veg and salad and less starch... second one just doesn't work for me so well and first one maintains my weight...

You have provided your own answer. Do what works for you.

[petefromlondon]

i don't know if i knew the answer my doctor wouldn't diagnose me with obesity...

there seem to be two different approaches discussed on this board 1st about eating starch and a bit of veg as condiments and a couple of fruits and another about eating a lot of veg and salad and less starch... second one just doesn't work for me so well and first one maintains my weight...

You have provided your own answer. Do what works for you.

[AlwaysAgnes]

Veggies are not a condiment. Unless you're a veggie hater. Veggies are a side dish. There's a difference. Hot sauce is a condiment.



I eat a starch-based diet. That doesn't mean I can't or shouldn't eat vegetables or that I need to/should treat the vegetables I do eat as a condiment only to be eaten in very small amounts.

Sometimes I think people have a starch quotient, a certain amount that each person needs to eat in order to be satisfied. While some may eat 3 (or 5) pounds of food a day, I don't think most people who do that need to eat 3 (or 5) pounds of starch a day in order to be satisfied. I think they can probably eat a lesser amount of starch and the rest in vegetables/fruit.

Personally, I don't eat much fruit, really. Unless you count tomatoes as fruit.

That's just how I roll.

What was the question?

[viv]

Be patient Pete. Continue eating your starch as the main course, with the addition of fruits and veg. Some days you will want more starch, some days you will want more veggies. As long as you are eating a whole foods plant based diet with NO added oils, your body will adjust and eventually get to the weight you are supposed to be. For some people this happens quickly. For others not so much. It took me three years to lose 50 pounds and this year I have lost another 8 lbs. Some months I did not lose any weight. But it didn't bother me, because I knew that I was eating the foods I was meant to eat. Stay the course, go with how you feel.

Viv

[petefromlondon]

...how I feel is going to KFC every day

Be patient Pete. Continue eating your starch as the main course, with the addition of fruits and veg. Some days you will want more starch, some days you will want more veggies. As long as you are eating a whole foods plant based diet with NO added oils, your body will adjust and eventually get to the weight you are supposed to be. For some people this happens quickly. For others not so much. It took me three years to lose 50 pounds and this year I have lost another 8 lbs. Some months I did not lose any weight. But it didn't bother me, because I knew that I was eating the foods I was meant to eat. Stay the course, go with how you feel.

Viv

[dailycarbs]

Our metabolisms aren't all that different. When people have a hard time controlling weight on this woe there are usually missing pieces to the puzzle we have been asked to solve. Without getting detailed information on what exactly is being consumed day in, and day out, we're all just stabbing in the dark.

In your case Peter, for all the advice you've received (it's been all over the place, including mine ), I doubt it will help you because what sense can you make of it? More starch, more veggies, controlling stress…

If I had to take one last stab I'd say it probably has mostly to do with non and semi-compliant food. I include in that list approved foods such as nuts and nut butters, dried fruit, compliant processed foods, bread, etc. These foods are completely inappropriate in any quantity for anyone who struggles with a chronic weight problem. In the link provided by someone earlier, the same basic advice comes directly from Dr. McDougall:

Consumption of all calorie-dense foods must be strongly discouraged.  Therefore, dried fruits, nuts, seeds, avocados, olives, and flour products (especially breads and bagels) are off limits.  And I MEAN off-limits, because a volume eater does not understand “eat only a little bit.” Very calorie-dilute foods, like green and yellow vegetables, are encouraged—especially to be consumed at the beginning of the meals.  But there is a limit to this advice—it is easy to overdo the very low-calorie foods and be unsatisfied.  There must be sufficient starch (potatoes, rice, corn, sweet potatoes, etc.) in the meals to provide a healthy sense of satiety. (See the January 2005 McDougall Newsletter article: Pushing Your Set Point to the Limits – The McDougall Program for Maximum Weight Loss, for more help.)

https://www.drmcdougall.com/misc/2005nl ... 100vol.htm

So you're going have to prepare food at home that involves whatever combination of starch and vegetables you've deemed appropriate and bring them wherever you go. You're going to have to get really good at picking out compliant food outside the home—whenever you need to eat at functions, restaurants, etc. You're going to have to commit to purify your home of all these no-no foods. Case closed. No argument.

So it's all going to come down to a committment on your part to never even entertain buying, sampling, eating or otherwise thinking about these foods as a possible meal or snack choice.

Can you do it? If so, the results will come, and they will be worth it—and in the process, you'll learn a whole lot about yourself. Now, I don't want to come off as drill sergeant or holier-than-thou. Frankly, whether you take on this challenge or not is not going to affect me one way or the other. I just want to give it to you straight and then you make the call. If you decide you won't do this, that's fine. But like I said before, you have your answer as to why the weight won't come off—even if you don't like that answer.

One general point to all the vegetables are a condiment people. It's fine if your appetite and satiety work to perfection and you can lose all the extra weight and keep it off eating practically nothing but starch. That simply hasn't been the case for many people. The reasons are not relevant. We have enough of a sample to know that other strategies are sometimes needed. Whether that other strategy is to eat a couple of lbs of veggies for your first meal, add more raw veggies and fruit, intermittent fasting, etc, we all must do what we need to reach our goals. Insisting that everyone can simply eat the exact same way and maintain a low-normal bmi is not a credible argument.

Dr. Lisle covers in various videos. In his webinar chat with Gustavo, you may want to pay particular attention to these time slots:
* 34:49 - Are some of us genetically doomed to fail?
* 41:21 - Portion quality vs portion quantity
* 42:00 - What is our "natural" diet
* 43:45 - Fruit
https://m.youtube.com/watch?t=38m12s&v=Xs06KhMFKKk

[patty]

I think if you post exactly what you eat and drink for a couple days, we could help you figure out the problem.

Today, Wednesday,2nd Nov
--------------------
Bfast - Porridge made with soya milk and some fruit.
Green tea
lunch - home made mixed vegetable soup with no oil and boiled long grain rice
green tea and peppermint tea
an apple
dinner - jacket potatos and baked beans.


Yestarday
---------------------
Bfast - Boiled barley with a banana and soy milk + black coffee
lunch - home made beans and veg Indian curry with rice - no oil
5-6 low fat ginger biscuits, piece of dark chocolate and a black tea
dinner - roasted potatoes no oil, salad and barley with dairy free pesto.
one banana and two apples

day before yesterday
---------------------------

bfast - Boiled barley with a banana and soya milk and a coffee
lunch - home made potato, veg and beans soup - no oil and some whole rye bread
dinner - Thai green veg curry in a restaurant plain boiled rice - ate the rice and veg and not the coconut sauce
tasted some of the veg from my girlfriend's sea food and veg plate
apple juice
green tea
5-6 low fat ginger biscuits and a piece of dark chocolate before going to bed.

I have to apologize I didn't mention how great it was you posted a sample of your food. And it looks pretty good. What is great is in tracking daily what you eat with your B/P, digestion and periodically your weight is will help you to have the data to see your progress and you will continue be able to know where to tweak your program. There are free apps for this.

How I was or am able to abstain from chocolate (when caregiving there is always access to chocolate) I don't eat anything that comes from a face or made in a plant. Dr Barnard in "Breaking the Food Seduction", shares how in the cows milk there is opiates to keep the calf from wandering. That is why dairy and dairy products are so addictive. Your desire to make plants your go to comfort food vs food made in plants is a given as you witness your health benefits. Dr Barnard suggest to have cut up fruit in the refrigerator to reach for at night. Cold potatoes will work too:) Starch creates Satiety.

There is a saying genetics is a gun, but lifestyle pulls the trigger. This WOE is about lifestyle where you won't suffer the chronic diseases of those before you. This is the gift you will be resonating to those around you. So don't lose heart if they disagree with your lifestyle. People become threaten as there are no victims only volunteers:) You set the rules by what is on the end of your fork. And the weight comes off/adjusts while being Time rich:)

Aloha, patty

[GeoffreyLevens]

Proportion of starch to veg on this program should be dictated by your results only! Start with the "standard" 50% of your plate filled w/ starches and do that for some weeks. If not losing weight as desired/needed, decrease starches a little and compensate by filling up with more veg. If losing weight too fast, or feeling like you are starving, light headed, hungry too frequently etc, then cut the veg volume a bit and add more starch. After any adjustment, do the same thing daily for some weeks and then readjust if needed. Simple?

[petefromlondon]

simple but I feel hungry and end up in KFC

Proportion of starch to veg on this program should be dictated by your results only! Start with the "standard" 50% of your plate filled w/ starches and do that for some weeks. If not losing weight as desired/needed, decrease starches a little and compensate by filling up with more veg. If losing weight too fast, or feeling like you are starving, light headed, hungry too frequently etc, then cut the veg volume a bit and add more starch. After any adjustment, do the same thing daily for some weeks and then readjust if needed. Simple?

[dailycarbs]

simple but I feel hungry and end up in KFC

What is the longest continuous period that you've stayed 100% on plan?

[GeoffreyLevens]

simple but I feel hungry and end up in KFC

Proportion of starch to veg on this program should be dictated by your results only! Start with the "standard" 50% of your plate filled w/ starches and do that for some weeks. If not losing weight as desired/needed, decrease starches a little and compensate by filling up with more veg. If losing weight too fast, or feeling like you are starving, light headed, hungry too frequently etc, then cut the veg volume a bit and add more starch. After any adjustment, do the same thing daily for some weeks and then readjust if needed. Simple?

When you feel hungry, yes eat! But eat foods from this way of eating.

That should not happen repeatedly. When it does occur, feeling hungry too soon or too much, that is a clear sign to eat more starch so your meals stick to your ribs longer. White flour, sugar, grease, and scary chicken has zero to do with it except for being cherished bad habits.

[petefromlondon]

ive been on it for a few years although eating pizza and non MWL things alot and eating alot in general and really struggling with salads and veg as hunger gets out of control, recently i;ve had urges to eat KFC for some reason when trying MWL I almost get some kind of high when eating it must be all the MSG in it. I do want to continue with the programme and get it right this time... I emailed Dr Lisle and he suggested doing some more exercise to help me control the apetite

simple but I feel hungry and end up in KFC

What is the longest continuous period that you've stayed 100% on plan?

[patty]

simple but I feel hungry and end up in KFC

Proportion of starch to veg on this program should be dictated by your results only! Start with the "standard" 50% of your plate filled w/ starches and do that for some weeks. If not losing weight as desired/needed, decrease starches a little and compensate by filling up with more veg. If losing weight too fast, or feeling like you are starving, light headed, hungry too frequently etc, then cut the veg volume a bit and add more starch. After any adjustment, do the same thing daily for some weeks and then readjust if needed. Simple?

What Geoffrey is saying is eat more starch. Actually the starch that I experience the most satiety from is beans. When really hungry I eat beans and rice. I feel we all have a addiction to fat/oil, it is the hardest to let go because it is the metabolic biological dollar. When washing the dishes where does the fat/oil go. Right to the walls of the sink. That is exactly what happens to our cells. Goes directly to the cell, wraps itself around the cell, the cell then becomes sticky, looses it's ability to repel other cells, sticking to other creating a sludge in the blood vessel, breaking the brain barrier of the cell. Chronic illness is the outcome.

How much money is it going to cost to purchase enough food from KC? How much does enough starch cost? How are you going to stay employed obese and with chronic illness? The addiction dominos stop at food and money. Who are you are threat too, if your needs are always met by starch, vs. your addictive wants that are destructive to the human form and environment? You have to choose to feed your higher self or lower self. Hunger passes, starch is the antidote. Once realized that becomes the stimulant. The best revenge in life is to be healthy and happy. Kindness creates happiness. The cravings leave.. don't be like a drunk trying to drink himself sober. The fat you eat is the fat you wear.

Aloha, patty

[dailycarbs]

ive been on it for a few years although eating pizza and non MWL things alot and eating alot in general and really struggling with salads and veg as hunger gets out of control, recently i;ve had urges to eat KFC for some reason when trying MWL I almost get some kind of high when eating it must be all the MSG in it. I do want to continue with the programme and get it right this time... I emailed Dr Lisle and he suggested doing some more exercise to help me control the apetite

Dr. Lisle suggests very vigorous exercise for self esteem and staying on plan. I'm not sure that it will help you with weight loss, per se.

See: https://m.youtube.com/watch?t=38m12s&v=Xs06KhMFKKk
@44:09 - Your Internal Audience

The reason I asked about your longest continuous period of 100% compliance is that it takes a certain period of time before cravings for fat and high flavor foods are overcome. Craving KFC to me, sounds like a fat and high flavor food (salt and seasonings) craving. High flavor food, even if compliant, can also trigger cravings for old favorites. No oil vegan pizza may be compliant but brown rice and plain potatoes as your starches may work better. Some people eat pasta and start thinking, "I remember how good this tasted with oil and meatballs." Or they eat a vegan pizza and think, "cheese would be great on this." And in any case, even a compliant pizza will have a higher calorie density than potatoes or brown rice. In other words, keep it simple.

You could try a 1-3 month test. No added fat of any kind (no tofu, plant milks, etc), no processed foods, breads, pizza, or dried fruit. Basically, potatoes, rice, and veggies/salads. Some fruit would be ok too. If after 3 months your weight is the same and you're craving KFC, a water fast might help, but since that would have to be supervised and cost $$$, not an easy thing perhaps. If you think 3 months is too long, just tell yourself if it fails, you've ruled out one more thing.

Good luck and let us know what you come up with.

[GeoffreyLevens]

3 months is a heck of a long time for someone struggling w/ addiction but really a couple weeks, even one week, will go a long ways toward resetting your taste buds and brain expectations. If you can make that long, it will get much easier from there. The thing is, even one bite for most people, a very small one, resets your taste back to the addictive stuff so you need to be 100% away from it for a bit before the cravings start to fade and then be vigilant even once it gets easier. I guess I am advocating more of the "one day at a time" approach so as not to get overwhelmed by the prospect. I does need to be done though; no way around it. I have never heard of any shortcuts other than the monodiets (like only potatoes or probably better, Mary's Mini) or water fasting for a short time.