Really worried about worsening condition on low fat diet...

[GeoffreyLevens]

But it is often hard to keep the surgeons away in the meantime.

Yes, esp if the symptoms have really destroyed your quality of life and you need to spend several days/month in bed due to intense pain and weakness from that and the bleeding!

[Grammy Ginger]

removed

[Hopingthisworks]

Did you try the Mirena Coil? Some people get on well with it and their Fibroids shrink.

I tried it myself for a different problem. I got it out in the end as I had a lot of irregular bleeding on it (and my health had gone downhill, and I had no way of knowing if it was contributing to this - I don't think it was as I have had the same problems since taking it out).

But on the plus side I had much lighter periods so it might suit your problem? The first few months on it though can be really annoying with irregular bleeding.

Edit: The Mirena Coil seems to be usually offered as the preferred option over a hysterectomy for Fibroids here (Ireland) as far as I know, as it is a lot less invasive and it would be reversible.

[Ben M]

I know it may not be Mcdougall compliant but many women have been helped taking black strap molasses for fibroids. Look into it. Just throw a tablespoon on your morning oatmeal each day. It's delicious.

[patty]

Hi... I don't know what to do for the best and I'm hoping someone can advise me. I've been sub-10% fat for 4 weeks. I'm 44 and I have large uterine fibroids (10 years since diagnosis) and I'm hoping the McDougall Diet will heal them. I have been vegan for 5 years, and vegetarian for 20 years. I have dreadful periods every month. Since cutting out all fats and oils, including oily fruits and vegetables, I am having the worst period of my life. It just won't stop and I'm 10 days in now. I can't go to the doctors because they just tell me to accept the hysterectomy they keep offering me. This is my last hope, after 10 years of strife. I'm already anaemic and I'm taking ridiculous doses of iron supplementation, and I feel like my life is draining out of me, literally. It won't give up, and yet I am on the healthiest diet on the planet - all whole foods, lots of fruits and vegetables, and no fats - I don't eat gluten. I don't drink. I don't take any medication (except iron). I drink 2 litres of water every day. I don't take caffeine or cocoa. My diet is very simple. My family are telling me it is my diet causing the problem, and I don't know who to believe anymore.

I am hoping someone might have been through this and tell me it is normal for things to get worse before they get better.

Thank you for any help.

Best wishes. Jo.

I went and checked out my iBook "The McDoguall's Program for Women" and I hope you purchase if, if you haven't already. It is amazing how this WOE works, the feeding is abundant and we love the taste of honey, but not when we are tasted. The pointing is always not two:)

I have 3 daughters (2 are in-laws), 5 granddaughters (one is in the making), and "The McDougall's Program for Women" has so much information and I am so grateful now to have it with Dr. McDougall's other iBooks, at my finger tips as I finally figured out how to get the them from my computer to my iPhone. So Mahalo for sharing, the gaining no losing principle.

This is just a small part for you... again be sure to check out the whole book, your confidence will soar:) As Dr. McDougall shares the body is always trying to heal. Time works for as aging is the illusion when our perception becomes anew:)

Fibroid Tumors

One in four women have fibroid tumors, or uterine leiomyomas. Seventy-five percent of these women do not experience any symp- toms. Research has shown repeatedly that fibroid tumors are related to diet. The incidence of fibroid tumors is highest among African- American women; however, they are uncommon in African women who remain in Africa and continue to eat their traditional plant- based diet.

A low-fat, high-fiber, high-carbohydrate diet will lower hormone levels rapidly and dramatically, thus relieving most of the symptoms affecting female sex organs. Periods become lighter, shorter in duration, and further apart. In my experience, many of the symptoms associated with fibroids simply disappear, even though the fibroid tumors do not shrink with a change in diet. Still, fibroids will shrink once menopause starts and estrogen levels fall. The best approach most often is simply to wait for menopause to cause fibroids to disappear naturally rather than have a hysterectomy. Unfortunately, a great many women and doctors do not wait, which is why the removal of fibroids is the reason behind about 30 percent of all hysterectomies.

Aloha, patty

[BroccoliForever]

I went and checked out my iBook "The McDoguall's Program for Women" and I hope you purchase [it]

Patty -- I used to have that book, but I must have loaned it out to a friend. So, I just ordered a used copy on Amazon. Thanks for sharing this excerpt from the book. In my case, I had no fibroid last year, but now have a huge one despite being what others would describe as "fanatical" about my diet. I wish I could shake a crystal ball and know how long until menopause! Mahalo (as you always say!)

[Grammy Ginger]

removed

[viv]

In my case, I had no fibroid last year, but now have a huge one despite being what others would describe as "fanatical" about my diet. I wish I could shake a crystal ball and know how long until menopause! Mahalo (as you always say!)

Be patient and let your body heal. It takes a long time to get sick and some time to get better. Dr. M has helped many with his wisdom in the slow fast way to health. It is slow, because it isn't an overnight, magic pill, cut it out, zap it fix. It is fast because it is lasting---if we don't head back down the fat vegan, ovo-lacto vegetarian, or SAD paths.

.......Meanwhile, Nero fiddles while Rome burns. The OP has been bleeding heavily --hemorrhaging for 10 days straight. Have you ever heard the words, "medical emergency?"

[patty]

I went and checked out my iBook "The McDoguall's Program for Women" and I hope you purchase [it]

Patty -- I used to have that book, but I must have loaned it out to a friend. So, I just ordered a used copy on Amazon. Thanks for sharing this excerpt from the book. In my case, I had no fibroid last year, but now have a huge one despite being what others would describe as "fanatical" about my diet. I wish I could shake a crystal ball and know how long until menopause! Mahalo (as you always say!)

I am so happy you ordered "The McDoguall's Program for Women". Wishing you the Best!

This is from "The McDoguall's Program for Women":

EDUCATION
The less you know about the pros and cons of a hysterectomy, the more likely it is that you will have one. A media campaign to increase the knowledge of residents in Canton Ticino, Switzerland, about hysterectomies decreased the rates of the operations by nearly 26 percent. We live in a culture in which hysterectomy has become accepted. How many women realize that nine out of ten hysterectomies are medically unnecessary? If you ask women who have had the surgery if they needed it, nine out of ten will tell you that it was essential. That's called good salesmanship.

In too many instances, a kind of blind acceptance sets in when a doctor "recommends" a specific medication or operation. This is especially true of hysterectomies. However, studies have shown that when women seek a second opinion regarding 'whether or not they should have a hysterectomy, the number of operations is reduced by as much as 28 percent. Remember, all doctors do not think alike. When a doctor recommends that you have a hysterectomy, get a second opinion. One of the primary reasons why there is such an excess of unnecessary hysterectomies is that many doctors do not really know when this operation is truly necessary and what the alternatives may be to surgery. As a patient, you must educate yourself on both of these points.

I would suggest if you can.. and I imagine if you didn't want to purchase it, the library would carry or bring in Nora Coffey's book, "The H Word". She has a lot of information on fibroids..

This is from Nora Coffey "The H Word":

Most of us seek medical help with the expectation of a uniform standard of care. Unfortunately that’s a dangerous presumption to make. That’s why it’s so important to learn how to choose a doctor.

If you have symptoms, to determine if any treatment should be considered it’s important to know what studies and tests should be utilized to evaluate them. The first step is to decide if you should see a gynecologist who specializes in looking for irregularities in the female organs, or if you should see a whole body doctor, since your female organs are part of your whole-body system. Gynecology is a surgical sub-specialty, so it makes sense that they’re predisposed to surgery.

Most doctors’ reputations are based on personality and marketing, and not expertise. So the best way to find a doctor is by asking people you know who are healthy and who haven’t undergone unwarranted surgery or invasive treatments. Asking for a referral from people who have undergone surgery might result in finding a doctor who is predisposed to invasive treatments.

To choose a doctor with good outcomes it helps to learn what questions to ask and the correct answers to those questions. When choosing a doctor, knowing the right questions to ask won’t help much, unless you know the answers. Only then can you evaluate the doctor’s response. Children are taught to be wary of anyone who is reluctant to answer their questions, and so should adults.

For example, a woman might ask a gynecologist, “Is removal of the ovaries castration?” The correct answer is yes, the medically correct term for removal of the gonads is castration. Or a woman might ask, “Are hysterectomized women at a greater risk of heart disease?” Again, the correct answer is yes, it’s well documented that hysterectomized women have a three times greater incidence of myocardial infarction and a seven times greater risk if the ovaries are also removed.33 Knowing the answers to these questions equips women with valuable information to appraise the prospective doctor’s honesty, integrity, and knowledge of the facts.

In the Colorado chapter of this book, you’ll find a discussion about what questions to ask a prospective doctor when considering a myomectomy for the removal of fibroids. Asking a doctor if he or she is aware of the HERS Foundation might be informative. Observing the doctor’s response while reviewing the information provided on the HERS website or bringing this book with you to your next consultation might also prove quite helpful.

Note this book is a story written book about the experiences of Nora Coffey's campaign took to educate women across the country about hysterectomies. They had protests in front of hospitals and they put on a play... and through the play there is feedback with countless women. It is a excellent book to educate women and men.

kids standing there with us in front of Baton Rouge Woman’s Hospital must’ve been quite a sight. We got some curious looks from people driving by. The youngest one draped her teddy bear over her sign. More than in any other city, people in Baton Rouge stopped to ask us, “What’s this all about?”

It was an insufferably hot and humid day in southern Louisiana. The midday sun was scorching. The children were hot and tired. Before long they wandered over to a park bench in the shade. The youngest asked me for a pencil and began writing on one of the pamphlets. After a while, one of the girls jumped down from the park bench and approached me.

The pamphlets we handed out had four true/false questions printed on the front cover: True or false?  

___ Castration, neutering, and removal of both ovaries are the same.           

___ Sex life is better after hysterectomy.          

 ___ Death from heart disease is more likely in hysterectomized women.          

 ___ Hysterectomy has no effect on men’s sex lives.

The youngest child handed me the pamphlet she was writing on. All around the borders she’d drawn hearts and “to nora,” inverting some of the letters—one of the many precious souvenirs of the Protest & Play year. “My sister read me all the questions,” she said. “Did I get them right?”

They were too young to understand what “sex life” meant, but they understood that nothing is better after hysterectomy. They also understood that heart disease is bad and that hysterectomy was bad for their mother. So if it hurt their mother, then it hurt them, so it must be bad for everyone. And indeed, this little girl with her teddy bear in tow answered every question correctly. I thought about the doctors I’ve been interviewed with on major television talk shows who don’t answer those questions accurately. Quite proud of herself, she returned to the bench in the shade.

In 1982 when I founded HERS, the word “hysterectomized” didn’t exist. HERS coined it because, after all, women don’t do it to themselves. The word “hysterectomy” itself was rarely spoken in public then. It was in the closet, in the dark, and no organization existed to encourage women to talk truthfully and openly about what had been done to them and the suffering they endured at the hands of doctors. One misconception is that women with little formal education and poor women are more likely to undergo unnecessary hysterectomy than more educated and wealthy women. We met women on the Protest & Play tour who were wealthy and educated at the highest levels who took extraordinary measures to protect themselves from doctors…to no avail.

Every woman is unique and every woman’s way of understanding information is unique. HERS approach to providing information is comprehensive. We break down the common barriers to learning. We’re committed to figuring out how each woman best receives information and to provide information in such a way that each woman can understand and utilize it.

HERS empowers women with the information necessary to make decisions about what they will and won’t consent to be done to their bodies. HERS demystifies information, translates emails from foreign languages, conferences-in translators for counseling calls, and reduces unfamiliar medical jargon into plain English. HERS acts as a liaison between women and doctors. We remind women their age isn’t a disease. We help women differentiate medical problems from nuisances. We inform them about the alternatives and risks of treatment options, and we help women understand their anatomy and what happens when the female organs are removed. That is full disclosure. HERS is an effective working model that demonstrates that it’s possible for every woman to fully understand even the most complex information about her anatomy and why the female organs are vital to her health and well-being her entire lifetime, irrespective of her age, desire for children, or socio-economic status.

HERS debunks the commonly stated position that too much information is confusing and that women only need a limited amount of information. The surgery can’t be undone—the damage is permanent. There’s no such thing as too much information. Women must be fully informed before they’re told to sign a Hysterectomy Consent form, or it’s not informed consent.

Coffey, Nora W.; Schweikert, Rick (2009-04-02). THE H WORD: The diagnostic studies to evaluate symptoms, hysterectomy alternatives, and coping with hysterectomy aftereffects. (Kindle Locations 878-882). BookSurge Publishing. Kindle Edition.

This is from the Colorado section...

Fibroids are benign growths of muscle and connective tissue. They grow until women reach menopause, with a rapid growth spurt generally occurring in the late 30s to early 40s, and another growth spurt just before menopause. At menopause they tend to gradually shrink to a negligible size and calcify.

Fibroids aren’t a disease. If you’ve got them it’s because they’re part of your genetic blueprint. They rarely cause any problems. But submucosal fibroids—located in the endometrium (the inside layer of the uterus)—can cause heavy menstrual bleeding and pain when large blood clots are passed during menstruation. Sometimes the heavy bleeding can make it difficult for women to manage their daily lives, and in some instances it can cause anemia (abnormally low levels of red blood cells) resulting in iron deficiency.

The best way to increase iron levels is to eat liver. If you don’t like liver, you might find it more palatable to eat it the way it’s served in Japan—by sautéing or broiling it and then dipping it in soy sauce—or by buying cooked chopped liver and adding soy sauce. Dark leafy green vegetables such as collard greens, kale, or spinach are also high in iron, but they can’t restore iron levels as quickly as liver.

Doctors like Anna’s often tell women their fibroids might turn into cancer, a condition known as a leiomyosarcoma. But less than 1% of fibroids are cancerous. Doctors also tell women fibroids will damage their kidneys or bowels by pressing on them, but that too is extremely rare. Women who develop fibroids often don’t have any symptoms and don’t know they have them unless a doctor tells them.

Both estrogen and progesterone stimulate fibroid growth. Many doctors prescribe progesterone to stop heavy menstrual bleeding and reduce the size of fibroids, but both hormones make them grow.63 Doctors also recommend “natural” progesterone yam creams that manufacturers claim will shrink fibroids, but they too generally make fibroids grow. Eating certain foods like tofu (or any soy products) can also stimulate abnormally high production of estrogen, especially in women who eat large amounts of it.

Small submucosal fibroids (4cm or less) that cause heavy bleeding can be shelled out in a procedure called a hysteroscopic resection. A hysteroscope is inserted through the vagina, into the cervix, and then into the uterus. A tool is attached to the scope and the surgeon chips away at the fibroid until nothing remains but the shell. Submucosal fibroids that are larger than 4cm can’t be removed hysteroscopically. Fibroids larger than 4cm can be removed with myomectomy.

Myomectomy is the surgical removal of fibroids, leaving the uterus intact. It’s still a major operation, but like a hysteroscopic resection it leaves the uterus intact. Any doctor who says a myomectomy can’t be performed because of the large size, number, or location of fibroids is simply wrong. Here’s what they should say, but rarely do: “I don’t have the skill to perform a myomectomy, so I’ll recommend you to a more competent surgeon who does.”

If you determine that your fibroids should be removed and you find a doctor who claims she or he has the skill to perform a myomectomy, the following questions will be helpful in determining if the doctor has consistently good outcomes with the surgery:

1) Are you board certified in gynecology? The desired answer would of course be “yes.” Many doctors flunk their gynecology boards multiple times, so it’s a minimal expectation that they’ve passed their boards in their area of expertise.

2) How many myomectomies have you performed? It’s best to choose a doctor who has performed at least 50.

3) How many of the myomectomies you’ve performed started out as a myomectomy, but ended in a hysterectomy? Answer: More than 2 out of 50 is too many, and you should find a different doctor.

4) This is the most important question of all: How many of the women you’ve performed myomectomies on received a blood transfusion? If the doctor answers you with something like, “It’s a really bloody, complicated surgery,” then you know you’ve got the wrong doctor. In that doctor’s hands, myomectomy may be a bloody, complicated surgery, but it’s generally not for a skilled surgeon. More than 2 blood transfusions in 50 myomectomies is too many.

5) How do you control bleeding during the surgery? You want a doctor who either uses the drug Pitressin or Vasopressin. These drugs are injected directly into the uterus, which causes it to temporarily blanche and diminishes the blood flow. Another acceptable method is a tourniquet, or a combination of a tourniquet and one of these drugs.

6) Finally, if you’re told you need to be given the drug Lupron to undergo a myomectomy, then you’ve got the wrong doctor.

Coffey, Nora W.; Schweikert, Rick (2009-04-02). THE H WORD: The diagnostic studies to evaluate symptoms, hysterectomy alternatives, and coping with hysterectomy aftereffects. (Kindle Locations 1955-1964). BookSurge Publishing. Kindle Edition.

Aloha, patty

[MINNIE]

......Meanwhile, Nero fiddles while Rome burns. The OP has been bleeding heavily --hemorrhaging for 10 days straight. Have you ever heard the words, "medical emergency?"

User avatar
viv

Yes. I sincerely hope she has stopped looking for advice here and has already sought qualified medical help. Her symptoms could mean a variety of things, not just fibroids, and they should not be ignored.

[patty]

It is important to always ask yourself "Is this life threatening?" Dr. McDougall shares to go to the doctor if you are sick. He shares they are very good at setting bones, lacerations and infections. Seek a second opinion or third opinion. Keep questioning your life is worth it. Dr. Eric Topol shares in "The Patient Will See You Now", anyone with a smart phone can have information that will improve their health as the communication with their doctor.

Aloha, patty

[Sagefemme]

Fibroids are pretty strongly hereditary. They are also correlated with race--darker skinned women tend to have them more than lighter skinned women. Your diet right now, in your reproductive years, has little to do with fibroids. If you want to keep your uterus you can have a myomectomy (remove the fibroids, keep the uterus). Myomectomy is still a big surgery, but you are likely to feel a whole lot better when you are not bleeding to death on a regular basis, and battling anemia.

Most regular gynecologists don't do myomectomies, they push hysterectomies. Look for a reproductive endocrinologist/infertility specialist in your area. They are used to doing myomectomies for women with big fibroids who are not done with childbearing yet. I work with a REI doctor and we do a lot of myomectomies. Most of the women who have them are happy campers when they recover and start having normal periods and not hemorrhaging every month!! Best of luck to you.

You could also consider this medication that shrinks fibroids: Ulipristol acetate. Here's an article:

Ulipristal Acetate versus Leuprolide Acetate for uterine fibroids New England Journal of Medicine, Feb 2, 2012, page 421.

[GeoffreyLevens]

Fibroids are pretty strongly hereditary. They are also correlated with race--darker skinned women tend to have them more than lighter skinned women. Your diet right now, in your reproductive years, has little to do with fibroids.

"Genetics loads the gun, diet pulls the trigger"

Diet now actually has a lot to do with fibroids as hormone balance levels are a big part of it and that is strongly effected by diet. But it is a long, slow process; we are talking about tissue growth.So once you have them enough to be symptomatic, they have been many years in the making. If they are merely "annoying" then all sorts of things can be tried. But if severe chronic bleeding and/or debilitating pain is there, then both for quality of life and more so for safety, urgent measures may be called for. An internet forum is not the place----your OB/GYN is the place to go for answers

[Grammy Ginger]

removed

[BroccoliForever]

Fibroids are pretty strongly hereditary.

YEP!

Most regular gynecologists don't do myomectomies, they push hysterectomies. Look for a reproductive endocrinologist/infertility specialist in your area. They are used to doing myomectomies for women with big fibroids who are not done with childbearing yet. I work with a REI doctor and we do a lot of myomectomies. Most of the women who have them are happy campers when they recover and start having normal periods and not hemorrhaging every month!! Best of luck to you.

I had no idea...great suggestion. Thanks.

An internet forum is not the place----your OB/GYN is the place to go for answers

I have learned so much valuable information in this particular thread from Patty and Sagefemme that I would not have learned from my GYN. I thought that this was the ENTIRE POINT of having this forum.. information sharing...

I too hope the OP is seeking professional medical advice but also continuing to do her own research so that she can make a fully informed decision. I am now armed with a long list of questions and options for myself which is priceless.

"Genetics loads the gun, diet pulls the trigger"

Sounds like quite the indictment,and I'm sure you didn't intend it to be. I know it is a catchy phrases and rolls off our tongue so effortlessly. Not EVERYTHING is due solely to lack of proper diet. One of my biggest frustrations with my situation is that I HAVE been so meticulous with my diet for almost my entire adult life. I too thought that I had beat the genetics game by my efforts. It is my understanding that the medical community is still not quite sure what causes fibroids. They believe it does have to do with a disruption of hormones, but what exactly is triggering that is not fully understood.