vegan youtube drama

[Thrasymachus]

American comedian Sinbad, in his 2013 special, "Make Me Wanna Holla" ( http://www.imdb.com/title/tt3110818/ ) was mocking a teenager in his audience. One of the things he told the teenager is that when he was young television would actually turn off at some point. After 12 pm there was no television. The kid was shocked. Nirvana, in their 1991 song Teen Spirit had this bit of lyrics that explains the heart of the issue capturing the mentality of his and subsequent generations:

http://www.azlyrics.com/lyrics/nirvana/ ... pirit.html
"Here we are now, entertain us
I feel stupid and contagious"

In that not so distant past there were only 3 television channels even in a continental, large country like the USA and like Sinbad mused above, they were not 24/7. Now we have hundreds of channels on all the time, several on-demand streaming services, on-demand cable, thousands of video games, not to mention lots of new recreational drugs, etc. The entertainment industry is huge and has had a massive effect on the populace all for the negative.

Unfortunately the internet offers lots of potential to create a concerned informed populace who can get information in theory outside of large corporate control but most people use it to be more distracted, base, shallow, self-interested. People are not seeking out deeper content. The entertainment industry has created an inertia and new type of people who think the world exists to entertain and amuse them. A short stint in millennial dominated discussion mediums like chanboards or Reddit really hammers that home. It seems even a deep issue like veganism has been made shallow, base and venal by this same type of people who think the world revolves around them.

The two worst offenders on the vegan youtube scene in my view are Unnatural Vegan(who actually has a video attacking McDougall "based on science") and A Bas Le Ciel, who are nothing more than vegan police. In reality contrary to their tired spiel, veganism is in such a minority, almost anyone promoting veganism is good, despite their wishes to only have people who they approve say or do anything. Eisel Mazard does nothing to promote veganism even on the Youtube sphere! All he does it criticize, nitpick, rant on other vegans. Unnatural Vegan does the same and perhaps worse, she constantly cedes ideological ground to carnism in a constant effort to not appear as "one of those vegans". Alot of the commentors on her low-quality videos are gloating carnists who have no intention to change, but congratulate her for this transfer of ideological turf in their favor. Say what you will about durianrider but alot of his Youtube presence unlike those white vegan policemen was attacking low-carb, paleo or in other words creating or taking ideological space. Actually the worst thing for veganism is people like the two policemen I mention because they are literally only promoting their channels, patreon accounts searching for income, etc. One of the real life activists those two dare target is Gary Yourofsky. I am on Gary's email list, one of thing he does is compile the emails he receives of people who say they converted to veganism after one of his speeches they saw in person or via Youtube and send them out to his subscribers. You cannot convert or change someone if you never try by constantly self-effacing or attacking your own team. Yourofksy's channel is nothing but his speeches to meat-eaters, interviews he has had promoting animal liberation or subtitled translations of those dominant categories to other languages.

As to the sexual predator allegations they could very well be true, but it is hard to tell as durianrider has started going off the deep end in credibility lately. Apparently alot of young females on tumblr where he was active before have complained about his creepy behavior:
http://soycrates.tumblr.com/post/575561 ... ks-to-stop

He also seem eerily interested in the dating status of the mostly under 25 demographic of Reddit's /r/vegan IRC channel:
https://www.reddit.com/r/vegan/comments ... my/d0j8a0a

I personally have had an email exchange with him before he was active on Youtube where he was abrasive and insulting to me, and that is experience most have with him. He also does Youtube videos directed to his daughter and ex-wife instead of just contacting them through normal channels like a sane person, imho what he does in that regard is far worse and more unstable than any Youtube drama queens. He is thus in a different category.

There are some great Youtube channels like from our member potatostrong:
https://www.youtube.com/user/PotatoStrong
Or Mic. the Vegan:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCGJq0e ... cqgxIE9MHw

But it seems low quality drama stirrers like Unnatural Vegan have way more hits and spend less effort anyway, so they can pump out more content. She is even at 8.4 million views since 2009 blowing away Dr. McDougall's excellent treasure trove of a channel that takes alot more money and effort to exist, and has synergy with leading authors and experts but is at 6 million and was established earlier in 2008:
https://www.youtube.com/user/drmcdougallmd
But remember alot of people are going to his channel searching for Gilbert Welsh, Melanie Joy, etc. and others with a moderate or high profile giving ASW talks, interviews, etc. Unnatural Vegan is just the puerile rants of one narcissistic person.

Unfortunately like I wrote in the earlier part of the post and which the most dull think is probably off-topic, the vast entertainment industry has created a intellectually disabled public who cannot think on a deeper level and don't want to. Why? Thinking is often not entertaining and the prime directive in life is to have it easy and pretend to have fun at all times. Which means when people are given a choice they will chose the least intellectually rewarding Youtube channels and personalities. The power elite has done alot of work in creating a public that only wants entertainment and to vicariously watch fights and gossip.

[petero]

making their decisions based upon a dogma, veganism in this case, they're in a mentally unhealthy place.

Au contraire, mon frere. There's something called "ethics" that mentally healthy people share. In any case, people who do not make an effort to reduce or eliminate their use of non-food animal products like leather and down are not vegans. They may be following a plant-based diet but they are not vegan.

[Risto]

In any case, people who do not make an effort to reduce or eliminate their use of non-food animal products like leather and down are not vegans. They may be following a plant-based diet but they are not vegan.

Did you watch the video by Jeff Nelson that I linked? His point was that the original definition of "vegan" in the English language was about diet only, and primarily motivated by health. Then the Vegan Society got taken over, a few times. It's not that Nelson disagrees with taking the ethical position or working for animal rights, because he doesn't, but he disagrees with calling people "not vegan" if they have a leather belt or inadvertently once ate some honey. He says the purity contest ends up being highly counterproductive, and I think I agree.

[petero]

That's great that he thinks that, but I disagree. Regardless of some organization's politics in 1950, the word vegan now refers to people trying to use no animal products at all. Other than stirring up drama, what's the point of trying to reclaim this one word for plant-based people in general? To dilute the meaning of vegan?

Get your own word, Nelson! It's not a "purity contest" it's about ethics. Saying it's a purity contest begs the question in the first place. Nelson isn't vegan.

[Chikiwing]

making their decisions based upon a dogma, veganism in this case, they're in a mentally unhealthy place.

In any case, people who do not make an effort to reduce or eliminate their use of non-food animal products like leather and down are not vegans. They may be following a plant-based diet but they are not vegan.

That's me.

I don't want to be a vegan. I have some fundamental problems with the dogma of veganism. I eat a plant based diet for reasons of health and leave the religious aspects behind.

[Chikiwing]

That's great that he thinks that, but I disagree. Regardless of some organization's politics in 1950, the word vegan now refers to people trying to use no animal products at all. Other than stirring up drama, what's the point of trying to reclaim this one word for plant-based people in general? To dilute the meaning of vegan?

Get your own word, Nelson! It's not a "purity contest" it's about ethics. Saying it's a purity contest begs the question in the first place. Nelson isn't vegan.

How deep are you into the veganism thing?

I've heard vegans say owning a pet is a big no-no in veganism. Are you this kind of vegan?

[katgirl55]

Sorry but I have to agree with petero. Being vegan has become a question of ethics beyond diet, and there is no need for plant-based spokespeople to argue over the meaning or origins. Why all the defensiveness? Eat your plants and quit worrying so much about it.

Avoiding animal products has a three-fold benefit: 1) animal rights 2) health 3) environment. It doesn't matter in which order you put these - eating plant-based will help all of them. Those whose priority is animal rights may also do more such as avoiding leather, fur, honey etc. Those who favor health might also exercise or run 5k's. Those who favor the environment might also recycle, buy organic, buy green products, etc.

DR and Freelee are like reality stars - they have grown accustomed to the attention. YouTube currency is views, so whatever you can do to get more views the better. But there are plenty of others making videos who are not much better. Kind of like Kanye and Taylor feuding just keeps both in the spotlight - and ultimately should we care? It is just a distraction from real news.

[petero]

How deep are you into the veganism thing? ... Are you this kind of vegan?

Petero is every kind of vegan. Petero is a tofu eater in Tennessee, a fur spray-painter in New York, a meat disparager in Texas, an undercover videographer in Nebraska, a killer of poachers in Zimbabwe, a raider of mink farms in Colorado, a quoter of Genesis 1:30 in church, Sarah McLachlan on late night TV, a worshiper of seitan, a lover of Pythagoras, and a PETA-supporter calling in to the Rush Limbaugh show. Petero supports all the ethical vegans resisting and saying "Enough".

[Spiral]

How deep are you into the veganism thing? ... Are you this kind of vegan?

Petero is every kind of vegan. Petero is a tofu eater in Tennessee, a fur spray-painter in New York, a meat disparager in Texas, an undercover videographer in Nebraska, a killer of poachers in Zimbabwe, a raider of mink farms in Colorado, a quoter of Genesis 1:30 in church, Sarah McLachlan on late night TV, a worshiper of seitan, a lover of Pythagoras, and a PETA-supporter calling in to the Rush Limbaugh show. Petero supports all the ethical vegans resisting and saying "Enough".

Do you think that those who have dogs or cats are unethical and not vegan?

[-mermaid-]

How deep are you into the veganism thing? ... Are you this kind of vegan?

Petero is every kind of vegan. Petero is a tofu eater in Tennessee, a fur spray-painter in New York, a meat disparager in Texas, an undercover videographer in Nebraska, a killer of poachers in Zimbabwe, a raider of mink farms in Colorado, a quoter of Genesis 1:30 in church, Sarah McLachlan on late night TV, a worshiper of seitan, a lover of Pythagoras, and a PETA-supporter calling in to the Rush Limbaugh show. Petero supports all the ethical vegans resisting and saying "Enough".

THANK YOU PETERO!

[vgpedlr]

[
Did you watch the video by Jeff Nelson that I linked? His point was that the original definition of "vegan" in the English language was about diet only, and primarily motivated by health. Then the Vegan Society got taken over, a few times. It's not that Nelson disagrees with taking the ethical position or working for animal rights, because he doesn't, but he disagrees with calling people "not vegan" if they have a leather belt or inadvertently once ate some honey. He says the purity contest ends up being highly counterproductive, and I think I agree.

I read an article about Donald Watson, founder of the Vegan Society and originator of the word, that indicated animal ethics were the core from the very beginning.

[Chikiwing]

How deep are you into the veganism thing? ... Are you this kind of vegan?

Petero is every kind of vegan. Petero is a tofu eater in Tennessee, a fur spray-painter in New York, a meat disparager in Texas, an undercover videographer in Nebraska, a killer of poachers in Zimbabwe, a raider of mink farms in Colorado, a quoter of Genesis 1:30 in church, Sarah McLachlan on late night TV, a worshiper of seitan, a lover of Pythagoras, and a PETA-supporter calling in to the Rush Limbaugh show. Petero supports all the ethical vegans resisting and saying "Enough".

Do you think that those who have dogs or cats are unethical and not vegan?

What I took from his responce was, it is not vegan to keep pets. This includes dogs and cats I presume.

[healthyvegan]

if you take ethical veganism to its logical conclusion that would mean you'd commit suicide immediately, because via your existence animals are harmed in the farming of your food & materials for your clothes, insects are harmed driving or biking down the street, the mailman killed some bugs delivering your mail, etc. the same goes for environmentalism. anyone nit picking a vegan is not a vegan because they are making people not be vegan, thus creating more harm and are total hypocrits. engage with positivity. say things like, I understand your point on honey, I have been reading this, let me know what you think about it? vs you ate honey you are not vegan. everyone is perpetually going vegan because the sheer fact of living kills creatures and displaces their natural habitat. we can strive to do better and HELP others do better, but the ethical vegan is like a strategic decision.... tell me a decision that isn't strategic?, adding the ethical is making it about yourself.

[petero]

adding the ethical is making it about yourself.

Wow, that's interesting. Because it's 180 degrees from what most people seem to think ethics is about--how we treat other people and other beings.

You are familiar with the fact that vegans aren't Jains, right, healthyvegan? And with vegan ideas in general?

[OneLeggedPig]

...adding the ethical is making it about yourself.

I’d say it’s the opposite. It's acknowledging that other beings' lives have value too and everything isn't about me and my convenience and pleasure.

And as for the logical extension of veganism being to commit suicide, I can see your argument but using the same line of argument: the logical extension of non-veganism is that it doesn’t matter what happens to anything but ourselves, so let’s all go nihilistic.
The truth is that no, we can’t ever be perfect or pure or never harm anything- but we can make a significant difference to the world through our choices, which are the only tools we really have. To me, people who ignore that are ducking responsibility. (And I say that as someone with non-vegan family, friends, and partner, and I don’t criticise people “In Real Life” for not being ethical vegans.

But I definitely agree with you about honey and whatnot. It's better to encourage people and discuss things with an open mind, rather than attacking people for not being "vegan enough". (Although of course at the other end of the scale we don't want "vegan" to get so watered down that people who eat meat once a week call themselves "vegan" and aren't challenged on it).