Thoughts for Binge Eaters -- Add Your Own

[stillcrazy]

This is a great topic, thanks for starting it! I've been a binge eater too, most all my life, and I see it being a two-fold problem for me. First of all, there are trigger foods that once I start eating, I can't stop until I am so grossly uncomfortable that I can barely move. For me sugar and cheese are biggies. Both high fat and sugar stuff. With sugar, it is the sweet taste and so I can't eat anything with artificial sweeteners either, not that I want to since they are so bad for you anyway, but sometimes sugar and sweeteners are "hidden" in the ingredients and they slip by me and I start to prowl for more.

The other thing that I seem to get out of control with is wanting to binge when I haven't eaten a trigger food and yet I end up simply eating and eating and eating. Potatoes, rice, beans, all of the starch foods I can easily eat huge (and I mean huge) quantities of. This was a surprise to me when I started following this program 2 1/2 months ago. I came to it from a low-carb, high fat diet, so that meant I hadn't eaten any starchy foods for quite a while, probably 6 months or so. I thought at first that getting out of control with them was a consequence of not having had them for so long, but it persists.

I know it is wise to keep all of my trigger foods out of the house and only have them if I am not aware of what I'm eating -- at someone's house or a restaurant, for example. I do have sugar and chocolate chips in my house though because I bake cookies for my grandson every now and then, but I never touch them, not a single crumb, because I'm clear that they are danger food for me. I would not bring in walnuts or pecans though because I know at some point my addict brain would tell me it was okay to eat just a little of them because they are allowed if weight loss isn't my goal, but I wouldn't eat just a little, I'd eat the whole package, and then I'd start looking for more of anything to eat until I'm baking potatoes in the microwave so I can have another one ready when I finish the one I'm on!

For me, there is an emotional hook that is really bad in binge eating too. I am generally a very positive person, I like myself and think I am generally a pretty good person, likable, competent, intelligent, often fun. But if I start to binge eat, by the time I can't eat anymore I have really awful feelings about being a really awful person. I recognize them as not "really" me, but they won't go away until I go to bed and get up to a new day.

So, on the upside, although I didn't drop a lot of weight really fast when I started this program, because of binge eating I think, I can now report that I have lost 9 lbs. in the last 8 weeks and feel very satisfied with that progress.

[Maer]

Thanks for the clarification, Jerry...that's so encouraging to hear. Did you have to cut out anything sweet tasting (like fruit)?

Maer

[Jerry Angelo]

No, I'm ok with fruit, 1 or 2 a day... Rarely do I have more.

[jeff_t]

This is something that I used to struggle greatly with, as I have vulnerably posted here in the past. Today I can say that I have overcome this disorder, and it hasn't been one thing in particular, but several.

First, the major trigger items for me were things that aren't compliant with this WOE. Doughnuts, pastries, cookies, cakes, ice cream, potato chips, etc. 100% elimination of most of those things has been essential for me. I can NEVER eat many of those foods again. Period. I had to be completely honest about what those foods consistently do to me.

Second, there were several food behaviors that I had to eliminate completely in order to get this under control. Here are some examples.

Snacking is very dangerous for me. I made a pact with myself to NEVER eat a snack unless it has been planned at least an hour in advance. That way it eliminates the compulsive nature that used to drive my snacking. Once I used to start snacking compulsively, it often ended with a binge. Now, I plan the snack -- what it will be and when I will eat it -- and I stick to that. It's easy because it's not a compulsive choice, but a hunger driven choice.

Second helpings are also dangerous for me, as they often lead to thirds, fourths, etc. So I made two pacts with myself around this. First, I will NEVER eat more than a second helping. Second, I will ALWAYS wait a minimum of five minutes before I eat that second helping.

This may sound like insanity to many of you, but I can tell you that it has resulted in an enormous amount of sanity for me.

[roundcoconut]

jeff_t, your experiences are VERY consistent with mine! We have achieved our sobriety (so to speak) by following very similar paths to one another!

I am always SO, SO happy when people are able to share the fact that there ARE ways to get healed and stay healed, from binge-style patterns. I just have this firm conviction -- there ARE ways to make this happen, no matter who you are, no matter how long you've been in bad patterns with food.

One more thing that I would really want people with varying levels of food addictions to understand is this:
You set yourself up for failure, or for success, with the environments you put yourself in. Spending time in environments where calorie-rich-and-processed foods are freely available, environments where no whole natural foods are available, environments where people may pressure you to consume your trigger foods -- it makes a TON of sense to devote your efforts to reducing how much time you spend in crappy environments like this.

The literature from OA (overeaters anonymous) encourages people to define the trigger foods and trigger behaviors and trigger environments that are associated with their own personal examples of overconsumption. So, eating in the car, or eating while standing in front of the refrigerator, is associated with binge-style eating for SO, SO many people. If you've done it in the past, then you may have to make a pact with yourself that you will eat food once you are at home (never in the car) or will eat food only in a sitting position (never standing).

There are so many commonalities to people who are high in their susceptibility to binge-style eating! The plant-based community has not yet done a good job of acknolwedging that there are real numbers of people who face fare more susceptibility to overeating than the presumed-normal person who is addressed by McDougall, Esselstyn, Novick, Popper, Klaper, and others.

[pundit999]

I do find it difficult to not overeat. For me the minutes after coming from work are the worst. I do not consume anything that is off plan, but I tend to eat lots of puffed rice mixed with peanuts. And I tend to consume tea with soy milk. All higher calorie plant foods.

I basically unnecessarily consume a whole extra meal, at least 2-3 times a week.

I do recognize the problem but find it difficult to overcome it. Since I have kids that eat off plan foods, it is difficult to not buy peanuts and other trigger foods, but I have been trying to change my environment such that these foods are not directly visible or easily accessible. For example, I have asked my daughter to take the peanuts to her room Works sometimes.

I also consume enormous amounts of whole foods. I have been trying to fight by lowering the density of the foods by following Jeff's recommendations but I need to eat much less.

One thing I have discovered in literature and agreed to is that you do not really have much will power. You have to change your environment such that you do not have to rely on your will power all the time. And you need to forgive yourself and just keep trying. Dr Kessler has a great book on it.

[smudgemom]

So people talk about trigger foods...I have trigger emotions...my emotional state feeds my binge mode.

I could have a binge proof plan, then something will come up and I'll go into a binge mode.

I just eat good food...lots of it...but it's good food. That's the best coping mechanism that I can come up with.

I'm like Lisa...I, too, have trigger emotions. But even then, it's still a mystery as to why I have these binges.

I could have all my food made for the day, written down in my food journal....good food I enjoy....just waiting for me. I go workout (stress reliever...positive frame of mind), come home to my prepared lunch....only to look at it, grab my keys & head out to the grocery store to buy my binge foods (btw...it ain't good & extremely off plan). I don't have a clue why I do that.

I've always said, if a Genie appeared before me & said, "I will remove your eating disordered thoughts...but you must be 50lbs over your goal weight forever"...I would have to say 'yes'. The numbing out then guilt afterwards is...exhausting.

Lisa...you're right. Eat good food...lots of it. I'm guessing my 'all or nothing' frame of mind might be the trigger...so allowing me to go wheel's off on compliant food is at least a step, albeit small step, in the right direction.

Thank you, roundcoconut, for starting this thread.

[amandamechele]

Hi All,

I struggle similarly (and oh the anguish I have put myself through about it over the years).
I do best following the MWL plan and to limit added sugar and salt. (I'm not saying that I consistently follow MWL, just that I recognize the power it has to diminish my "issue" with food)

I wish all of you the best!

Amy

[roundcoconut]

It is really, really good to hear other people's experiences!

I don't have any particularly good explanation for why humans seek food when no hunger is present. And I notice that SOOOO much of the plant-based community dismisses it, denies it, and doesn't get it.

A recently posted teleclass features the "explanation" that when people on a whole foods diet eat beyond the hunger drive (presumably on whole natural foods), that it is not really a destructive pattern at all -- rather, it is just the body saying, "Hey, you're in a safe warm place and free from external threats and now might be a good time to have an extra potato or six.""

And I had to disagree, because anyone who has sitten down and eaten an upward spiral of potatoes, or bananas, or potatoes alternating with bananas, knows that this isn't a comforting, relaxing pattern we do, like, "I've got a little time on my hands and would like to relax, how about i take a bath?" Rather, it is an eating pattern that contains a certain amount of restlessness or emotional distress and escalates into somewhat greater restlessness and emotional distress. The emotions after eating 5 bananas are not, "Ah, that felt really nice!" It's like you just witnessed yourself doing something a little dysfunctional and a little nutty, and you'd much rather see yourself in different habits.

Another comment that is really off the mark for some of us, is to say that if you overconsume on whole natural foods, you shouldn't worry about it, because you will naturally eat less tomorrow. And really, one thing that several humans on these boards can attest to, is that if I trip or slip into eating large quantities this evening, I am actually MORE susceptible to repeating that pattern tomorrow -- not less. A person who goes well beyond the hunger drive on Monday, Tuesday and Wednesday -- yes, even if they're only bags of frozen peaches; even if they're only eating baked yukon golds -- that person finds it MORE difficult to do a non-binge pattern on Thursday.

I know I am probably preaching to the choir around here, but when I say the plant-based community doesn't get it, I am actually fine with that. Not knowing is fine, but not-knowing-while-believing-that-you-DO-know, is dicey, and I beliieve it tends to mess with people.

I'd love it if a few more people would speak to this! I mean, just a few brief words that yes, for binge eaters, a binge leads to another binge, and yes, the patterns track very similarly whether we're talking potatoes, or red lentil chili or bananas or bread.

So, people with binge-style patterns in their past and in their present tendencies, need to have little pacts with themselves. It is strange, but maybe two weeks ago I made a pact that i would not eat in a moving car. I mean, if you eat apples while driving down the road, that is no sin really, but it just feels kinda icky and dysfunctional to me. So, I had to say to myself, "You're free to hang out in the parking lot of the grocery store and eat a few apples, but once the car is in drive, we're not going to be eating any more."

Hard to explain, but I feel like "What kind of person has apple cores rotting in the console of her car?" And the answer really is, "Not the kind of person I really feel good about being."

I think that people who have been overweight, tend to think that the icky feelings about binge eating have to do with a particular weight, but they really don't! I swear to you, I came to a plant-based diet to deal with dysfunctional eating patterns (including moderate binge style patterns) and it never makes a difference that nobody (including myself) considered me overweight. The icky feelings and dysfunctional patterns with food don't somehow feel OK if you happen to be thin. Not at all!

[roundcoconut]

lynns, I really, really DO like Jeff Novick's quote in your signature!: The single most important thing we can do is (begin to) get the food right -- whether at home, at work, at restaurants, or with family; during boredom, during stress, during the week, during the weekend.

I don't know what his intentions were behind those words, but I think that GET THE FOOD RIGHT means:
- sure, get the kinds of food right (meaning intact starches, whole natural foods, etc.)
- get the quantities of those foods right too.

Beginning to get the food right may indeed mean allowing yourself to eat six potatoes, rather than go to the store and lay your hands on six calorie-bombs. I do think that whole natural foods can be a FAR better outlet for binge eating tendencies, than calorie-rich-and-processed binge foods.

But ultimately, getting the food right, means working toward ways of getting the quantity right. Eating one banana is great. Eating five bananas is outta whack. EAting five bananas at 10pm because it was a long day at work is super outta whack.

Volume eating on whole natural foods, and eatiing far more frequently than needed, is a step along the way. But we CAN find ways out of eating dysfunctional quantities, at dysfunctional clock times, or dysfunctional intervals. I just kinda think people CAN eat in ways they feel good about -- it doesn't happen overnight, but you make certain pacts with yourself.

Y''know, it is funny because I HAVE found a lot of patterns that keep my food intake really solid, EXCEPT for when I am at work. I am thinking I am going to make a pact with myself that I do not eat standing up. I mean, what am I THINKING??? Eating hurriedly standing up is totally dysfunctional (for me anyways!) -- how strange that I've never picked up on this until today.

[Katydid]

I was watching a lecture by Doug Lisle and he said something that profoundly shocked me and changed my whole attitude toward my own binge eating. So many times when people become obese from overeating they talk about their emotional problems: difficult childhoods, etc. and how food is their only comfort. And no doubt that's true.

But what Dr. Lisle pointed out was that if you take a normal weight lab rat and replace its rat chow with Honey-nut Cheerios you end up with a fat lab rat. The animal will not be able to control its overeating (been there, done that ). The rat didn't have an abusive dad or a bad mom. The rat isn't ashamed or racked with guilt. The rat just prefers the salt, fat and sugar in the Cheerios to its rat chow. It's not us - IT'S THE FOOD. You aren't weak, you don't need to feel guilty.

We overeaters need to stick with eating "people chow": whole grains, tubers, squashes, beans, greens, and non-starchy vegetables. If you are a chronic overeater, that may mean restricting salt and sugar, even super-sweet fruit. That's not yo say you can't overeat on steamed broccoli and potatoes, but if you do, so what? Without the feedback from a brain high on fat and sugar, you'll put your fork down eventually.

Kate

[Jerry Angelo]

As I begin my 8th week of MWL with strict adherence, I must share some of my personal findings...

One thing I have noted several times is that I really do not crave any of my previous 'go-to' binge items. That does not mean that I am entirely comfortable trying some at this point, in actuality, I'm terrified. But, I am really thankful that I am not hampered by those crazy feelings anymore, at least for the moment. Still am amazed at the longevity of the abstinence of the substances and the cravings themselves...

The other interesting point is that Monday through Friday, I do very well with breakfast because I leave the house after I eat it... and when I leave the house, I only bring enough for the day (even if I eat it way before lunch, it's the only food I have with me) and I only make enough for dinner and I'm good - mostly because I am walking after work most days and that does squelch and suppress my hunger quite well.

The issue is on the weekends where I have more time... to cook and to be around the house... I do binge... but......... I binge on roasted veggies, raw carrots, potatoes or whatever I have surrounded myself with. There are none of the offensive items in my house, and that helps. I do wish that I didn't have to eat as frequently because I'm sure I'm not hungry when I do half the time. I do it for all the reasons that I and others have posted all too well in this thread. The good news is that according to Dr. Lisle, I'm doing ok because I 'can't' overeat on wfpbno... I will just eat less the next day or so... and it's true... I eat A LOT less on Mondays... I'm too busy at work and I have not brought anything with me to sabotage!

I'm thinking I really need to stay away, for a very long time, from the flour... And I feel I can do it the longer I abstain.

Oh well, I'm writing this quickly, hopefully the above made sense, it sure did in my head though

Edit: In rereading this, I guess the biggest point I would like to make is that MWL is great to lose weight with but a tremendous byproduct, at least for me, is the vastly diminished cravings and the binges themselves...

[pundit999]

I also do not have cravings for my old triggers such as chips or pizza. The new triggers are certain high calorie plant foods such as the soy milk and puffed grains.

[jld]

Absolutely right, Kate. It's why I know now that I don't even want to take one bite of those addictive non rat chow foods, if I can help it. For me, it's both. It's old stuff that has to be dealt with because it triggers me to want to cover it up and food is my drug of choice....and it's the food that calls me to keep returning, like a bad relationship.

[jeff_t]

This is a great thread, and I see myself in many of your posts. It seems that so many are close to getting over the hump, but still struggling to figure out how to completely break free from the insanity -- and insanity is what it feels like.

Like many of you, I spent a lot of time (years!) trying to figure out where I was going wrong. Was it the food? Yes! Was it only the food? No!

For me, this process has taken a lot of honesty. Each time I've struggled, I had to answer some questions. Did this binge begin with a certain food? Was I genuinely hungry or hungry for something else? Did something else trigger this? Has this happened before? Has it consistently happened before? It wasn't until I began to answer these questions truthfully that the insanity began to lift.

This is what I discovered about myself. This applies to me, not to the general population, or to other binge eaters.

1) No amount of "sweets" can safely pass my lips.
I'm referring to cookies, cakes, candies, etc. There's something about a combination of sugar, fat, and flour that is like crack to me. Once I start, all I think about is more, more, more. One serving is too much and at the same time never enough. Not on weekends. Not on holidays. Not on my birthday. Never. Ever.

2) Crunchy and/or salty snack foods are almost as dangerous for me as sweets, with one exception.
It seems that I can safely eat them if they are individually portioned and there is no possibility of going back for another serving or another handful. So crackers, chips, nuts, etc. are rarely part of my diet. I might take along an ounce or two of nuts in a ziplock bag for a snack when I'm on a hike. Or I might have one of those individually packaged bags of chips as part of a lunch on rare occasions. For me, those things don't make me crazy. But I can't have even one tortilla chip from the bottomless chip basket at a Mexican restaurant, or I'll end up in Mexico with a tattoo by the end of the night.

Before I continue, notice that items one and two are almost entirely non-compliant with this WOE. I really shouldn't be eating them anyhow. But for the first few years on this WOE, I tried to justify the occasional "treat" because I didn't want to be too "restrictive" and "deprive" myself. The reality is, as others have said, when I eat from those two items above that's when I'm depriving myself -- of sanity, good health, confidence, self-satisfaction, etc.

3) I have a hard time telling when I'm truly hungry, and I need to take time to really make sure I am before I eat or keep eating. So I handle that in a few ways.


a) I don't ever eat more than seconds because I could never really be that hungry. I don't do Iron Mans. I'm not a Navy Seal. I'm a freaking engineer who jogs a few times per week. For the love of God, I don't need thirds. Ever.
b) I wait at least five minutes before having a second serving. I wait to make sure that my hunger is a real hunger. Most of the time I decide that I have better things to do than sit there waiting for five minutes to pass, and I just stop eating.
c) I eat three meals a day, and only eat snacks if I've planned them at least an hour in advance. So if I get hungry between meals, I look at my watch and say something like, "If I'm still hungry, I'll have an apple in one hour." Then I either have the apple, and the apple alone, or I decide I'm not really hungry after all. I'm pretty sure I can survive off of glycogen stores and body fat for 60 minutes without dying.

As I said, it took me years of falling and getting back up to become honest enough with myself to live according the the principles I outlined above. I eat according to the WOE outlined on this site about 90-95% of the time. But sometimes I go out for dinner for Thai or Indian food, and it's got a heavy dose of oil in it. Maybe two or three times a year I break down and have a hamburger. Those things aren't great for me, but they don't make me "cray cray" like the things I've listed above. With the items listed above, I'm 100% compliant, or I will inevitably binge. And when I binge, it's not just for a day. There's no telling when I'll get back on track.

But wait, 100% compliance, isn't that -- gasp! -- perfectionism? I think perfectionism is when you berate yourself and others in your life for not being perfect. I don't do that at all. Should I stumble and fall, I get up and learn, then get back on track. But I expect to be 100% compliant with the principles I've outlined for myself, no matter what. We do this in many areas of our lives. I expect to be 100% honest, 100% faithful to my wife, 100% alcohol free (that makes me cray cray too), etc. I don't ever say, "Well I can't expect to be perfectly faithful to my wife. That's perfectionism!" Of course not. Perfect compliance with what I have vowed to her is required.

I have stopped lying to myself, pretending that I could eat a piece of birthday cake like everyone else. Having some structure around the way I eat has been tremendously freeing because these days I don't think much about food until it's meal time. I'm not the kind of person who snacks, so why would I think about eating between meals? I'm not the kind of person who eats ice cream, so the stuff my family has in the freezer doesn't really call to me.

I hope I haven't diminished how important the WFPB WOE has been to my recovery. It's been instrumental. Dr. McDougall and Jeff Novick teach food sanity. But the food hasn't been the only thing. The behaviors had to change too, not just the food.