Exercise, Health and You: How much is Enough? (A response)

[Golden Ghost]

Approximately half you muscles are fast twitch. Arobic training does not grow or maintain these types of muscles. You might be able to be strong and Mobil into old age growing and maintaing slow twitch muscles only. However, why strengthen only half of you muscles and fibers. You odds are much better strengthing and maintaining the entire body. I want to increase my odds as much as possible.

[Gershon]

Approximately half you muscles are fast twitch. Arobic training does not grow or maintain these types of muscles. You might be able to be strong and Mobil into old age growing and maintaing slow twitch muscles only. However, why strengthen only half of you muscles and fibers. You odds are much better strengthing and maintaining the entire body. I want to increase my odds as much as possible.

The CDC, Dr. Cooper, and the Pritikin Clinic recommend strength training. None of them recommends HIIT.

[vgpedlr]

Approximately half you muscles are fast twitch.

Genetically determined, and with a high rate of variability.

Arobic training does not grow or maintain these types of muscles.

Partially true. Aerobic training can convert fast twitch fibers into functional, fatigue resistant aerobic fibers. It won't make them grow bigger.

You might be able to be strong and Mobil into old age growing and maintaing slow twitch muscles only.

With regular exercise, there is no "might," it will happen.

However, why strengthen only half of you muscles and fibers. You odds are much better strengthing and maintaining the entire body. I want to increase my odds as much as possible.

No one has yet explained to me why training fast twitch muscle fibers via HIIT is the most beneficial for general health or longevity. As a specific function of fitness, strength is good in relation to what you want to do with it, but there are different ways to build strength.

Increase your odds of what?

[vgpedlr]

Approximately half you muscles are fast twitch.

Genetically determined, and with a high rate of variability.

Arobic training does not grow or maintain these types of muscles.

Partially true. Aerobic training can convert fast twitch fibers into functional, fatigue resistant aerobic fibers. It won't make them grow bigger.

You might be able to be strong and Mobil into old age growing and maintaing slow twitch muscles only.

With regular exercise, there is no "might," it will happen.

However, why strengthen only half of you muscles and fibers. You odds are much better strengthing and maintaining the entire body. I want to increase my odds as much as possible.

No one has yet adequately explained to me why training fast twitch muscle fibers via HIIT is the most beneficial for general health or longevity. As a specific function of fitness, strength is good in relation to what you want to do with it, but there are different ways to build strength.

Increase your odds of what?

[Golden Ghost]

I never said HIT and fast twitch muscle development is the most beneficial. I believe HIT and aerobic are both important. And although you can be in shape as you age using only aerobic training I believe you can be in better shape using both. I posted the studies in an above post. If you believe HIT is not important or not necessary please site some studies.

[vgpedlr]

I never said HIT and fast twitch muscle development is the most beneficial.

Not referring to you individually, but to that general belief. Quite popular in the paleo world these days.

If you believe HIT is not important or not necessary please site some studies.

I am acquainted with the studies advocating HIIT. I know that they can build fitness. But those fitness gains come with greater risks than other forms of exercise. This is from personal experience and observation. Fitness is not the same thing as health. One can be extremely fit yet unhealthy. As for studies showing HIIT as unimportant, I'm not aware of any studies showing any variety of exercise as unimportant, nor do I know why one would want to conduct one. As for being unnecessary, the relevant threads in Jeff's forum discuss what amount of exercise has the most benefit, and to my knowledge, the recommendations do not require HIIT.

There are many ways to peel the fitness potato, but nobody, including myself, has been able to convince me that HIIT is necessary.

[Skip]

There are many ways to peel the fitness potato, but nobody, including myself, has been able to convince me that HIIT is necessary.

HIIT is necessary when training for activities that are high intensity....like football or squash or sprinting etc etc

[Golden Ghost]

I agree the risks are high for true HIT. However, some new studies which I posted show great benefits from sub max HIT. This means you do not have to go all out like TAbata. This lowers the risk greatly.

[smudgemom]

One word that sends me into a Kryptonite-chair-slumping coma is one word:

"Tabata"

My favorite of all favorite blog responses was this excellent ditty:

"Tabatas" have unfortunately morphed from a puke-generating, super high level high intensity protocol developed to get that extra 1% from Olympic level speed skaters into a mish-mash "Hey let's throw any crap together in a 20:10 split and call it 'Tabata'" mess.

YES! Unless Dr. Tabata is standing next to you (!), it's just a HIIT. A true Tabata is so intense, it can only be performed on a laboratory stationary bike or rowing machine (erg) where you are supported. Tabatas are not on a treadmill, with kettlebells, burpees, battle ropes, sit-ups or incorporated into an hour long Zumba class...no matter how much the gyms like to promote that word.

Yeah, it kinda drives me nuts how the fitness industry has bast*rdized 'Tabata'..
Whew....rant over!

[Gershon]

There are many ways to peel the fitness potato, but nobody, including myself, has been able to convince me that HIIT is necessary.

HIIT is necessary when training for activities that are high intensity....like football or squash or sprinting etc etc

I never did HIIT when I played squash. I just played squash. Control the "T," and it's not really that intense. I was one of the top squash players at the Air Force Academy.

[vgpedlr]

HIIT is necessary when training for activities that are high intensity....like football or squash or sprinting etc etc

Never played squash, but I like to eat squash.

When alpine skiing was my main interest instead of endurance racing, I used to train with a lot of intensity in the gym. I wish I knew then what I've since learned so I could have had more options than the bodybuilding inspired workouts everybody was doing.

Interestingly, the biggest positive impact on my skiing came from two of the lowest impact exercises. One fall I did a lot of vinyasa yoga, and another year it was tai chi. Both improved my skiing more than all the hours in the gym of other years.

[Skip]

There are many ways to peel the fitness potato, but nobody, including myself, has been able to convince me that HIIT is necessary.

HIIT is necessary when training for activities that are high intensity....like football or squash or sprinting etc etc

I never did HIIT when I played squash. I just played squash. Control the "T," and it's not really that intense. I was one of the top squash players at the Air Force Academy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sSvzNWQQl90

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2DSNW7C4sM
The game itself is high intensity....

[EvanG]

This is an interesting thread. I think in the end, it's most important to pick an exercise schedule that is fun, provides some endurance, and some strength, and that stimulates bone growth training and stick with it. The biggest thing is what you find fun, and that will obviously vary from person to person. I tend to agree with vegpedlr that injury prevention is a big deal. The biggest thing that I see derailing long term exercise routines is injury. Long term fitness has nothing to do with achieving whatever goal next month or next year. It's about building a habit of exercise and sticking to that, and avoiding injuries.

[Skip]

vgpdlr,

You may be interested in listening to Joel Friel in the Trail Runner Nation podcast called Faster after 50 with Joel Friel (he also has a new book out with the same title.

He discusses the importance of some hiit in order to maintain a high vo2 max as we age. He concurs with the general 80/20 rule but talks about "peroidization" so at some point in your training cycle it might be 70/30 and at other times 90/10.

[vgpedlr]

vgpdlr,

You may be interested in listening to Joel Friel in the Trail Runner Nation podcast called Faster after 50 with Joel Friel (he also has a new book out with the same title.

He discusses the importance of some hiit in order to maintain a high vo2 max as we age. He concurs with the general 80/20 rule but talks about "peroidization" so at some point in your training cycle it might be 70/30 and at other times 90/10.

Just listened to three different interviews with him, including that one. One interviewer asked him about Maffetone, and his answer was very interesting.