New Essy podcast

[FrancesUK]

This is the linkto Howard Jacobson's latest podcast: http://plantyourself.com/pyp-089-dr-caldwell-esselstyn-on-ending-the-war-against-our-hearts. I just have to have Essy's message streaming through my mind to keep me on track.
Frances

[Spiral]

This is the linkto Howard Jacobson's latest podcast: http://plantyourself.com/pyp-089-dr-caldwell-esselstyn-on-ending-the-war-against-our-hearts. I just have to have Essy's message streaming through my mind to keep me on track.
Frances

Thanks for posting this. I am going to listen to this this evening.

[dteresa]

Listened to it. Love dr. Es.

The Tarahumara are not entirely plant based. They hunt deer and trap small animals too.

In his book he warns to only eat no more than three pieces of fruit a day and of course to avoid fruit juices because of the sugar which can cause your blood sugar to rise. In the podcast and in other lectures he now says to avoid maple syrup and other sugars but in his book some recipes use it. He must have new information and says in the podcast that sugar can damage the endothelial cells. In his book he says it is ok to drink coffee but in the pod cast he says to avoid caffeine because it damages endothelial cells.

Not in the book but in his current advice, and about which he says he is very strict and adamant, is the insistence to eat a fistful size of leafy greens six times a day. I have a hard time with this. Firstly I am trying not to eat between meals because I tend to go overboard and am not hungry anymore between meals and secondly because for me, the cost of keeping a supply of enough leafy greens to consume six times per day, not to mention that they don't keep for very long and would take up more room than I have available in my fridge, makes this very hard. I could use frozen spinach--also an expensive proposition six times per day.

Do you all eat leafy greens or beets six times per day? I usually have plenty with each meal, even breakfast, but so far have not between meals. I believe this advice is for his heart patients but do not know if he would give this recommendation to others.

didi

[dailycarbs]

Didi, the easiest way I've found to eat lots of greens (and many other on plan cooked foods) is to cook (frozen or fresh) greens in my favorite recipes in bulk (luckily my wife does this part ), and portion them out in appropriate serving sizes, and freeze or refrigerate them accordingly. Often, I like the taste of leftovers even better than fresh cooked anyway.

Most starches don't need freezing once cooked but greens are more fragile. It depends. For example, my wife made a potato and spinach soup/stew. Almost 2 weeks later, I finished the last serving and I never froze any portions. They were all in the fridge. Tasted excellent to me to the end. But 2 weeks in fridge for cooked greens is pushing it. Probably better to freeze. Steamed greens don't last much longer than fresh in the fridge, I've found. Greens, well cooked and combined with a starch (like the soup mentioned) do better. Baked potatoes otoh, hold up forever, it seems.

Now as to the six servings of greens and other matters. I don't follow that plan but unlike you, I never coded or have heart disease (that I know of). So your take may differ from mine. I think Dr. E. presents a plan that is as perfect for heart patients as he can make it at any given point in time. As new information is available, he tweaks the plan but as you can see, his basic recommendations are still fundamentally the same. So his latest recommendations are pretty much the best he can come up with at this time. If I felt that I had to eat six servings of greens per day (I don't) I'd eat them in pre-cooked leftovers, double servings for every meal (3 time per day). Not because it's a superior way to eat them but because it's the only practical way I'd ever have a chance of keeping it up for the long haul. On occasions, if need be, I'd make one meal of just greens with a fruit to spice it up. I could easily eat 3, 4 or more fist sized portions of greens at one sitting. When I steam greens, I use a lobster pot and I make ginormous amounts. Since those won't hold up in the fridge, I usually eat them all that day. That's not something I do every day though—or even all that often.

As to fruit and other matters, not folowing a plan like his (the strictest PB diet out there?) leaves me free, for example to consume generous amounts of fruit, the occassional sugary treat, and even some nuts once in a while. It also allows me to dine out with friends and not fly into a panic because you know, you eat in a restaurant, you're eating some oil unless you order dry salad only. Even baked potatoes seem cooked in oil now. But again, I don't have known heart issues and my family history does not indicate a genetic predisposition so it's a n=1 approach.

[dteresa]

I have no problem eating tons of greens with each of my three meals. I might even eat more than he recommends. But not six times per day. I do make a twelve quart pot of soup with lots of greens and it lasts quite a while. Frozen foods are my emergency last resort because I do not think they taste as good as fresh. I can tell the difference but some people can't. I purposely spend more money on fresh greens because I think frozen are inferior so I would seldom cook and then freeze.

Evidently essy thinks heart patients should "bathe" their endothelials in nitric oxide six times a day. Maybe he has evidence that three times a day is not enough. But, if as he says, eating lots of greens affects the saliva then perhaps eating twice as much at three meals might be just as good. I do not even know if this is speculation on his part or if he has some evidence that a fistful six times a day is more health promoting than two fistfuls three times per day. It isn't clear from his lectures.

didi

[dailycarbs]

Evidently essy thinks heart patients should "bathe" their endothelials in nitric oxide six times a day. Maybe he has evidence that three times a day is not enough. But, if as he says, eating lots of greens affects the saliva then perhaps eating twice as much at three meals might be just as good. I do not even know if this is speculation on his part or if he has some evidence that a fistful six times a day is more health promoting than two fistfuls three times per day. It isn't clear from his lectures.

didi

For you, maybe email him for clarification? It wouldn't matter to me. Even under doctor's orders, I'm not going to cook and eat greens 6 times per day. It's too disruptive to my life so I'd take the risk of doing something good (eat lots of greens in larger portions per meal) over something perfect which I couldn't keep up.

[geo]

Not sure why Dr E wants people to eat six servings a day of greens, after all there's nothing in greens that you can't also get from other veggies. But if you feel the need for greens that much then just buy a one lb bag of frozen greens. That's six servings I believe for about two dollars. Simply cook them with your other veggies and season as desired. Quick, easy, simple. No cleaning, no chopping, no mess. Just dump and heat and eat and they probably will have more nutrients than you will get from 'fresh' produce , be cheaper and take less fridge space. I love all my veggies frozen. So easy to deal with and inexpensive.

[frozenveg]

I'm also thinking that a fistful of fresh greens cooks down to about 2 tablespoons of cooked, if that much! So if you made, for instance, the 10-ounce box of frozen chopped spinach (my favorite way to get greens), which costs about $1.29, you could then eat 2 spoonsful 6 times a day of you wanted, and probably not even use it up in one day, so the cost would be less than a dollar a day. Or you could throw that cooked spinach into the soups dailycarbs and geo mentioned, which I do a lot, too. I don't eat much in the way of fresh leafy greens, because they are way too expensive ($2.50 to $3 for a wilted-looking bunch) and also they take up too much space in the fridge, which depresses my SAD-eating husband, and he feels pushed out!

I also am not sure about why he encourages his patients to do that, but it is doable when you think how a big bunch of leafy greens cooks down to nothing.

[soul food]

didi said, "eating lots of greens affects the salvia."

How so?

soul food

[dteresa]

I don't remember. It is explained somewhere in the podcast when he talks about leafy greens. He also seems to include broccoli and asparagus in with those six servings of greens.

didi

[Risto]

So if you made, for instance, the 10-ounce box of frozen chopped spinach (my favorite way to get greens), which costs about $1.29, you could then eat 2 spoonsful 6 times a day of you wanted, and probably not even use it up in one day, so the cost would be less than a dollar a day.

I make fruit smoothies with frozen spinach, with maybe half of a 150 g bag at a time. I realize that Dr. E does not recommend smoothies, but it's by far the easiest way for me to get the leafy greens. The price here is probably almost double the one you mentioned, something like €1 for the 150 g bag (5 ounces), so it works out to maybe 50 cents a day. The product is actually Finnish, so it's even fairly local (which explains some of the price).

[SeekKnowledge]

Thank you so much for posting this. I have listened to it once,
but I have downloaded it so I can again and I will share it with others.

[brec]

... Not in the book but in his current advice, and about which he says he is very strict and adamant, is the insistence to eat a fistful size of leafy greens six times a day. ...

This is for heart disease patients, especially ones new to the program. I talked to him last week. I've been eating "this way" for 2+ years and have no symptoms; he said that, in view of that, it would be OK for me to omit the mid-morning, mid-afternoon, and bedtime greens. My take: the six-a-day is to "put out the fire" of inflammation, but it's not required once the flames are squelched.

Edit: I should clarify that "it would be OK" was in response to a question from me; it wasn't an unsolicited news update.

[brec]

didi said, "eating lots of greens affects the [saliva]."

How so?

See the diagram right at the beginning of this video:

http://nutritionfacts.org/video/hearts- ... ip-a-beet/

Summary: consumed nitrates in leafy greens enter the bloodstream, concentrate in the salivary gland, and then lingual (tongue) bacteria convert nitrate to nitrite, which is converted to nitric oxide (NO) which is good for the arterial endothelium.

[f1jim]

My greens consumption radically went up when adopting this program. Is it 6 times a day? No. But it is a noticeably higher consumption. We buy lot's of fresh greens. Mostly kale, various chards, collards, and of course, romaine and butter leaf lettuces. Never measured, but as was already noted, most of the greens cook down to a fraction of their raw state. They are extremely easy to add to soups, stews, and sandwiches.
The big issue is not letting them go bad in the fridge and having to toss them. We learned to buy fresh and prepare them as soon as possible. Like most healthy foods you find a few you like best and over time they get addicting. Just start expanding your palette as you go.
f1jim