Ovo-lacto-vegetarians have lower cardiac death rate

[SnowCrash7]

Interesting comments and studies that apparently demonstrated that ovo-lacto-vegetarians have a lower cardiac death rate then vegans.
Does this put the lie to the belief that eating eggs or dairy harms the endolithial cells?
Would appreciate your thoughts.

http://jn.nutrition.org/content/135/10/2372.full

http://tinyurl.com/4yhnxzg

[Katydid]

No one here is recommending a fruitarian/raw food diet.
Kate

[ETeSelle]

Yeah . . . um . . . "raw" and "vegan" are not interchangeable terms.

[dstewart]

Interesting comments and studies that apparently demonstrated that ovo-lacto-vegetarians have a lower cardiac death rate then vegans.
Does this put the lie to the belief that eating eggs or dairy harms the endolithial cells? ...
Would appreciate your thoughts.

For a few reasons, no, it doesn't indicate the things you think it indicates.

First, neither of the studies you cited is about endothelial cells at all. To infer from studies about cholesterol and homocysteine levels among rawists, or differential death rates between meatists, piscitarians, lacto-ovos and vegans, anything about endothelial cells would be inferring something not even present in the studies.

Second, it is not "eating eggs or dairy" that harms the endothelial cells. It is, theorizes Dr. Esselstyn, "processed vegetable oils, dairy products, and meat (including chicken and fish) [that] injures these endothelial cells." http://www.heartattackproof.com/huffpost.htm That includes eggs and dairy, yes, but oils have the same effects. Dr E shows, in a VegSource Expo video from 2010, I think, that vegetable oils have the same effects as animal fats.

In short, Dr E says, you don't dodge the damage to the endothelial cells by replacing animal fats with vegetable oils. You get the same damage.

As Dr McDougall and indeed all the familiar names on these boards and in the "plant-strong" world point out often enough, a vegan diet does not equal a maximally healthy diet in itself. Vegans consume processed vegetable oils, a prime example being vegans pushing consumption of olive oil, saying that olive and other oils, like coconut oil, are "healthy fats." Most vegan cookbooks are oil-laden and even "vegan shortening"- or "vegan margarine"-laden. Even raw food dieters use oils.

This way of eating is not just vegan. It is oil-free, pretty much all added-fats-free. Most vegans are not eating this way.

[SnowCrash7]

Kate: I never said anyone was advocating a raw food anything.

The point is that 16 studies show that folks who eat dairy and eggs have a lower cardiac death rate than those who do not (vegans) eat dairy and eggs.

And I am aware that vegan or vegetarian etc etc does not necessarily equate with healthy eating in and of itself. But what I found interesting is that the fats in dairy and eggs, according to 16 studies, all other factors being equal, are conducive to a lower cardiac mortality rate.

[Spiral]

Kate: I never said anyone was advocating a raw food anything.

The point is that 16 studies show that folks who eat dairy and eggs have a lower cardiac death rate than those who do not (vegans) eat dairy and eggs.

And I am aware that vegan or vegetarian etc etc does not necessarily equate with healthy eating in and of itself. But what I found interesting is that the fats in dairy and eggs, according to 16 studies, all other factors being equal, are conducive to a lower cardiac mortality rate.

So, we are supposed to believe that eating lots of cheese and eggs is the path to a healthy heart?

I don't buy it because the only diets known to reverse heart disease are diets where egg yolks and cheese were prohibited. If cheese and eggs are so healthy, makes you wonder why not a single doctor/clinician can match the results of Dr. Ornish or Dr. Esselstyn while including unlimited quantities of cheese and eggs.

[Chumly]

I wonder if it was the low B12 levels rather than anything else. I've read that low B12 levels can cause pretty big problems in the long-term. It shouldn't be a problem on this plan, since Jeff and Dr. McDougall both recommend B12 supplementation. There are some vegan groups who advise against all supplements, including B12.

Michael

[Spiral]

Here's a paper discussing why 3 Canadian Cardiology experts advise against consuming egg yolks.

Dietary cholesterol and egg yolks: not for patients at risk of vascular disease.

There are good reasons for long- standing recommendations that dietary cholesterol should be limited to less than 200 mg/day; a single large egg yolk contains approximately 275 mg of cholesterol (more than a day's worth of cholesterol). Although some studies showed no harm from consumption of eggs in healthy people, this outcome may have been due to lack of power to detect clinically relevant increases in a low-risk population. Moreover, the same studies showed that among participants who became diabetic during observation, consumption of one egg a day doubled their risk compared with less than one egg a week. Diet is not just about fasting cholesterol; it is mainly about the postprandial effects of cholesterol, saturated fats, oxidative stress and inflammation. A misplaced focus on fasting lipids obscures three key issues. Dietary cholesterol increases the susceptibility of low-density lipoprotein to oxidation, increases postprandial lipemia and potentiates the adverse effects of dietary saturated fat. Dietary cholesterol, including egg yolks, is harmful to the arteries.

[dstewart]

But what I found interesting is that the fats in dairy and eggs, according to 16 studies, all other factors being equal, are conducive to a lower cardiac mortality rate.

This is not what the studies said, nor is it implied by either study.

First, there were not 16 studies, but two--one empirical, the other a metaanalysis of five studies.

Second, the first study did not say anything about cardiac mortality rates except by reference to the second study.

Third, the second study did not hold all other factors equal, because the studies it was based on did not. It factored out some things, but it discusses others that it did not.

Fourth, neither study studied the effects of the fats (or for that matter the protein or carbohydrates) in dairy and eggs, nor found them conducive to a lower cardiac mortality rate. This is an inference on your part, an invalid one, and is not even determinable from the study; and it is not one of the results of the study's authors claim--because there is nothing in the study that indicated it.

While the lacto-ovo vegetarians had a slightly lower mortality rate, the study did not say that all other factors between the diets were equal. (The authors also note that the sample of vegans was small.) Just to give an example of a difference that could hold between the studies: Higher consumption of fats overall among the vegans. No, the study doesn't say that was the case--it doesn't discuss the differences or similarities at all, other than one being lacto-ovo and the other vegan. That isn't enough to go on to draw the conclusion that the fats in dairy and eggs lead to lower cardiac mortality. And the study does not make that inference.

[StarchBeet]

In the Adventist Study 2 not only do vegans BMI come out slightly better than lacto-ovo's but Type II Diabetes rates are better for vegans, according to Barnards synopsis on healthy eating.