Overdiagnosed: Making People Sick in the Pursuit of Health

For those questions and discussions on the McDougall program that don’t seem to fit in any other forum.

Moderators: JeffN, f1jim, John McDougall, carolve, Heather McDougall

Overdiagnosed: Making People Sick in the Pursuit of Health

Postby RowerDave » Sun Jan 30, 2011 12:19 am

This new book by Dr. H. Gilbert Welch is a must-read. Dr. Welch addresses many of the same issues Dr. McDougall has discussed about overuse of screening tests and prescription medications. He is referenced in Dr. McDougall's Sept. 2010 newsletter on mammography:

http://www.drmcdougall.com/misc/2010nl/sep/fav5.htm

Dr. Welch addresses blood pressure, diabetes, most cancers and the problems of high-resolution imaging finding "problems" that only lead to more treatment and have no impact on lifespan.

The book doesn't explore improving health through diet and exercise, but the final chapter, "Pursuing Health with Less Diagnosis" flows right into what we're trying to do: "My coauthors and I would rank highest those health-promotion efforts that lead people to feel more resilient,either physically or emotionally. By resilient I mean feeling strong, able to participate in and enjoy the life you lead - and capable of meeting and dealing with adversity whien it comes."

Highly recommended.
RowerDave
 
Posts: 34
Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2009 9:14 pm
Location: Los Angeles

Re: Overdiagnosed: Making People Sick in the Pursuit of Heal

Postby Cherry Tomato » Mon Jan 31, 2011 9:11 am

My doctor has given up trying to get me to have a colonoscopy. I just can't wrap my head around taking junk to purge my intestines and then having them put me under to do whatever they do to my colon. My stepmother's mother was in her mid-90s and they wanted to schedule her for a colonoscopy. Her answer was, "What would you do for a woman her age even if she DID have colon cancer?" Stepgrandma did not get the procedure, thanks to the vigilance of my stepmom.

Last time I had a mammogram, they scared the pants off me by calling and saying they found an irregularity in my films. I had to take a day off from work and drive half an hour to their breast health center for another mammogram and then an ultrasound, only to be told, after being frightened out of my wits that I had cancer, that it was nothing but a cyst.
Cherry Tomato
 
Posts: 402
Joined: Thu Aug 19, 2010 8:55 am

Re: Overdiagnosed: Making People Sick in the Pursuit of Heal

Postby Skip » Wed Feb 23, 2011 9:01 pm

RowerDave wrote:The book doesn't explore improving health through diet and exercise, but the final chapter, "Pursuing Health with Less Diagnosis" flows right into what we're trying to do: "My coauthors and I would rank highest those health-promotion efforts that lead people to feel more resilient,either physically or emotionally. By resilient I mean feeling strong, able to participate in and enjoy the life you lead - and capable of meeting and dealing with adversity whien it comes."

Highly recommended.


Rower Dave, this is indeed a great book and I agree that hardly anything is mentioned about nutrition as prevention to chronic disease. In the last chapter that you mention, there's a section called "There's more to prevention than early diagnosis". In it, he says "Luckily, preventative medicine also involves health promotion. Think of health prevention as what your grandmother might have told you when you were young: don't smoke, eat your fruit and vegetabeles, and go play outside......"

Last year I had a blood test and my PSA level was over 10! I have not gone back to retest it and having read this book, I don't feel the need to do so. There is a chance that I do have prostrate cancer (60% of men of the age 60 to 70 have it), but unless I have some physical symptoms, there is no need to let the medical community do anymore testing on me. I will probably die with prostrate cancer (if I do have it) and not from it.

The PSA test leads to the biopsy which leads to a possible cancer diagnosis which leads to radiation, surgery and drugs, however, the PSA/biopsy tests can not determine if this cancer will kill me. That is, the tests can't discriminate between fast growing cancer cells and slow growing cancer cells.

Welch shows that the diagnosis of many cancers has gone dramatically up over the years, however, the number of people that die from the cancer has reamained steady so many many people are treated for something that would never have harmed them yet they must live with the surgeries, drugs, and radiation that the medical community pushes on us.

Welch discusses why ligitagation has lead to more and more testing and how drug companies, hospitals, and others benefit by having more and more diagnostic tests on people that have no symptoms of any illness.
"The fundamental principle of ethics is reverence for life" Albert Schweitzer
User avatar
Skip
 
Posts: 2230
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2010 9:19 am

Re: Overdiagnosed: Making People Sick in the Pursuit of Heal

Postby f1jim » Wed Feb 23, 2011 9:51 pm

This author is one of the guest speakers Dr. McDougall is trying to line up for the September ASW.
He mentioned it Sunday night I believe.
f1jim
While adopting this diet and lifestyle program I have reversed my heart disease, high cholesterol, hypertension, and lost 54 lbs. You can follow my story at https://www.drmcdougall.com/james-brown/
User avatar
f1jim
 
Posts: 11350
Joined: Sun Feb 17, 2008 4:45 pm
Location: Pacifica, CA

Re: Overdiagnosed: Making People Sick in the Pursuit of Heal

Postby Skip » Thu Feb 24, 2011 7:13 am

You can hear him speak at:

http://www.npr.org/templates/rundowns/r ... =2-11-2011

Scroll down and play the show called:

"Is preventative medicine actually overtreatment?"
"The fundamental principle of ethics is reverence for life" Albert Schweitzer
User avatar
Skip
 
Posts: 2230
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2010 9:19 am

Re: Overdiagnosed: Making People Sick in the Pursuit of Heal

Postby Nettie » Thu Feb 24, 2011 8:39 am

Cherry Tomato wrote:....Last time I had a mammogram, they scared the pants off me by calling and saying they found an irregularity in my films. I had to take a day off from work and drive half an hour to their breast health center for another mammogram and then an ultrasound, only to be told, after being frightened out of my wits that I had cancer, that it was nothing but a cyst.


That happened to me, too. It took a very long time to pay off the costs of the stereotactic biopsy (after insurance paid some). The shadow they saw was nothing but "calcification." Haven't had one since.

Nettie
Last edited by Nettie on Thu Feb 24, 2011 9:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
If you always do what you've always done, you'll always be what you've always been.

Star_McDougaller

Image
User avatar
Nettie
 
Posts: 1166
Joined: Tue Nov 07, 2006 3:55 pm
Location: South Carolina

Re: Overdiagnosed: Making People Sick in the Pursuit of Heal

Postby Love the Lorax » Thu Feb 24, 2011 9:07 am

Been there and done that.... not a fun time.

Nettie wrote:
Cherry Tomato wrote:....Last time I had a mammogram, they scared the pants off me by calling and saying they found an irregularity in my films. I had to take a day off from work and drive half an hour to their breast health center for another mammogram and then an ultrasound, only to be told, after being frightened out of my wits that I had cancer, that it was nothing but a cyst.


That happened to me, too. It took a very long time to pay off the costs of the stereotopic biopsy (after insurance paid some). The shadow they saw was nothing but "calcification." Haven't had one since.

Nettie
Image
User avatar
Love the Lorax
 
Posts: 819
Joined: Wed Nov 01, 2006 7:16 am
Location: sunny Nevada

Re: Overdiagnosed: Making People Sick in the Pursuit of Heal

Postby patty » Thu Feb 24, 2011 10:49 am

Skip what a great interview. I have bookmarked the site. I had downloaded Dr. Welch's book... just haven't had time to read it. Interesting to hear about the prostate testing. Looks like it just isn't women being over diagnosed. And it was great he identified the no-placebo of testing, doctors and phram companies in general.
http://www.npr.org/templates/rundowns/r ... =2-11-2011

Aloha, patty
patty
 
Posts: 6977
Joined: Mon Feb 23, 2009 11:46 am

Re: Overdiagnosed: Making People Sick in the Pursuit of Heal

Postby Skip » Thu Feb 24, 2011 12:08 pm

Patty,

The medical-pharmaceutical companies create more patients by simply lowering the cutoff points on various tests that give you target numbers like blood pressure, cholesterol, etc. Patients that are on the borderline for "normal" are the most likely ones to be overdiagnosed and harmed.

By eating the way we eat, we take health care into our own hands and we can reject the unecessary testing that is pushed on us when we have no symptoms of illness.

For acute injuries, I have the utmost respect for the medical-pharma community but for the many chronic diseases that we avoid by life style choices, the message of prevention by early testing is ridiculous, don't you think?
"The fundamental principle of ethics is reverence for life" Albert Schweitzer
User avatar
Skip
 
Posts: 2230
Joined: Tue Apr 13, 2010 9:19 am

Re: Overdiagnosed: Making People Sick in the Pursuit of Heal

Postby Daffodil » Thu Feb 24, 2011 3:51 pm

Not only making people sick but scaring them half to death with a wrong diagnosis.
A local friend of mine I hadn't heard from for a few years, we finally reconnected. She told me back in 2009 she was having a lot of pain in her abdomen, bloating,etc. So she goes to a local hospital one night in extreme pain. The doctors there are all in training, so they tell her after examining her that she has ovarian cancer and gave her 3-6 months to live. They even referred her to other physicians and they affirmed it. And they did a hysterectomy on her. And told her the cancer had spread into her abdomen.
They tried to talk her into the traditional ways to remove the "cancer" but she refused. She lost her house in trying to cover all the medical bills, got her affairs in order, and then later found out she never had cancer in the first place!
She had enlarged fibroids that resembled a mass in her uterus.

I told her she needs to sue them for all the pain and suffering. And unnecessary surgery! She said it's a learning experience and she now stays far far away from all doctors. Does not trust them at all. And she says she appreciates each day that she wakes up and is still here.

It makes me wonder how many thousands or hundreds of thousands of people out there routinely get the wrong diagnosis. I do believe there are far too many people taking medications that are totally unnecessary and taking them for ailments or things they do not have in the first place. Plus having unnecessary surgeries too! Scary stuff!
-Amy in NV
-------------
User avatar
Daffodil
 
Posts: 1734
Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2007 12:03 am
Location: NV

Re: Overdiagnosed: Making People Sick in the Pursuit of Heal

Postby Vegankit » Thu Feb 24, 2011 4:05 pm

thanks for posting about this book. I just finished reading his book "Should I be tested for Cancer?" Excellent book. I'll have to look for this one.
Vegankit
Vegankit
 
Posts: 2741
Joined: Sun Sep 20, 2009 5:18 pm

Re: Overdiagnosed: Making People Sick in the Pursuit of Heal

Postby Nettie » Fri Feb 25, 2011 6:31 am

Vegankit wrote:thanks for posting about this book. I just finished reading his book "Should I be tested for Cancer?" Excellent book. I'll have to look for this one.


The new one is in my local library! I have a request in for it now.

Nettie
If you always do what you've always done, you'll always be what you've always been.

Star_McDougaller

Image
User avatar
Nettie
 
Posts: 1166
Joined: Tue Nov 07, 2006 3:55 pm
Location: South Carolina

Re: Overdiagnosed: Making People Sick in the Pursuit of Heal

Postby Vegankit » Sat Feb 26, 2011 3:48 pm

Nettie wrote:
Vegankit wrote:thanks for posting about this book. I just finished reading his book "Should I be tested for Cancer?" Excellent book. I'll have to look for this one.


The new one is in my local library! I have a request in for it now.

Nettie

yes, I've done the same thing - there is a long waiting list LOL
Vegankit
Vegankit
 
Posts: 2741
Joined: Sun Sep 20, 2009 5:18 pm

Re: Overdiagnosed: Making People Sick in the Pursuit of Heal

Postby Jubilee » Sat Feb 26, 2011 6:58 pm

Just got my copy from the library today. Thanks for the recommendation!

Blessings,
Jubilee
Jubilee
 
Posts: 361
Joined: Mon Mar 08, 2010 4:48 pm

Re: Overdiagnosed: Making People Sick in the Pursuit of Heal

Postby Burgess » Fri Mar 18, 2011 7:10 am

I too recommend Dr. Gilbert Welch's book, Over-Diagnosed.

http://anti-itisdiet.blogspot.com/2011/ ... lbert.html

The book contains a lot of information, but following the author's line of argument is easy. The issues are intellectually and emotionally difficult for everyone -- not only patients, but physicians as well.

I have not read all the sections of the book. Some sections -- such as the ones on breast cancer and risky pregnancies -- do not apply to me.

I agree with the author's general conclusion: Modern medicine can solve certain problems that very sick people encounter, and modern medicine deserves credit for that. Patients, however, should be very cautious about screening (testing before there are even any symptoms of illness) and premature diagnoses of "problems" that are unlikely to injure or kill the patient.

The time to read this book, or at least most sections of it, is now -- not when one is frightened by an emerging medical problem.
Burgess Laughlin, Star McDougaller
My books: http://www.reasonversusmysticism.com
My health weblog: http://anti-itisdiet.blogspot.com
User avatar
Burgess
 
Posts: 1463
Joined: Sat Nov 18, 2006 11:20 am
Location: Shelton, Washington

Next

Return to The Lounge

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 34 guests



Welcome!

Sign up to receive our regular articles, recipes, and news about upcoming events.