weight loss and sudden worsening of arthritis??? long....

[Mrs. Doodlepunk]

I am hoping that anyone who hangs out here and has lost weight can help me. I've been McDougalling for almost 4 years, I'm 48 but feel 25, and have been overweight to varying degrees all my adult life. Except for a brief period of thinness when I was about 25 the first time, where I lost 20 or so pounds on a high protein diet and then promptly gained it all back again. So, I had about 60 pounds to lose and most of my excess fat is probably butterfat. At least, that is what I figure since Dr. McDougall says the fat you eat is the fat you wear. I'm sure there is plenty of bacon grease and egg, olive oil, and whatever they fry stuff at McDonald's in too, but I'm probably at least 60 percent butterfat - I used to live on cheese. I started McDougalling at 190 and lost about 10 pounds, in October I was 184 when I decided enough is enough. I'd been cheating on peanut butter and this summer it was ice cream about once a week. Enough. I want to be thin and healthy, and I know how to do it right, I just have to DO IT.

So, in the past two months I've stuck like glue to the MWL program and finally am losing weight. I have lost almost 15 pounds in two months and look so much better, I was wearing size 18W this summer and yesterday wore my new size 12's when we went out to lunch. Things are great.

EXCEPT for one thing, for the past few weeks I have had increasing problems with my back and neck and all of my joints. I know I have arthritis in my neck, so no big surprise that it's all over BUT it should be getting better as I stick with the Program here, right? Or, is there something else going on? I wondered if I could have a problem with gluten (hope not....) or soy. I would have to try an elimination diet to see if that is the case, lots of trouble, but I'll do it if you all tell me to.

Then, this morning I started thinking about the 12-one pound packages of butter I picked up at the store the other day. No, I didn't buy them, I just picked them up because that was how many pounds I had lost and I wanted to do that just to visualize how much fat that was, and butter fat seemed appropriate. Butter has lots of stuff in it, so does all the other junk I've eaten over the years. I remember reading that most toxins have an affinity for fat and women who nurse babies often are using their fat stores as calories to use to manufacture the milk their bodies are making, so the baby gets concentrated levels of bad stuff in the breast milk.

Am I melting away this fat on my body and having these aches and pains because of toxins my body has to deal with? This is an interesting theory, if I am right and this is my problem hopefully it will get better.

Could this be gout? I don't have sore toes but my feet and ankles are really hurting me. If I have to I can go see my doctor - the one who told me I should stuff myself with grilled salmon if I wanted to lose weight, and eating an apple is no different than a Snickers bar - and I used to really think he was the smartest doc around, too. He would probably agree to do some blood tests for me if I asked, but he thinks I'm pretty silly doing this high carb thing. So, I hate to go see him unless I really NEED a doctor.

Has anyone else had this problem? I need to know, and Mr. Doodlepunk would like to know too, he is getting worried about me. There is no swelling, just jabbing pain in my ankles and a sore back and tailbone. Oh, and my knees are complaining.

[hope101]

Do you have any redness of any of your joints, or actual swelling besides the pain? Do you have stiffness that can be worked out after movement? Have you changed your exercise program, or are you doing an exercise program?

If you have no warmth or swelling, no stiffness, but just aching in your knees, lower back and feet, that doesn't sound like gout to me. I would wonder if you have adequate shoes. I spend a lot of time on my feet and used to get low back and foot pain. Wearing shoes in the house helped tremendously (I used to have a pair of Rockports), but especially when I switched to Crocs indoors.

[Mrs. Doodlepunk]

Nope, no swelling or redness, just pain. I haven't changed anything, just melting off fat. I keep meaning to start up with my exercise again but haven't yet, so I can't blame it on that!

I've been wearing shoes in the house for at least the past year, and they are fairly decent athletic type shoes. I don't wear clogs anymore, had problems with those, so now I only wear good lace-up shoes or the pair of Skechers or whatever they're called that are very comfortable and have good traction.

I keep thinking it's either all the toxins being liberated from my fat cells OR something I'm eating too much of, like soy sauce or sodium. I haven't had any bread so it can't be gluten. At least, my gluten intake has gone way down.

[Birdy]

It's possible that you're experiencing a release of toxins in your system that are causing the pain. Are you drinking lots of water? If so, adding fresh squeezed lemon juice to your water might help with the "detox" process. It may also be that you are allergic to something that you're eating a lot more of on the McDougall diet. For example, if you're eating a lot more wheat in the form of bread and you have developed an intolerance for it that could cause joint pain. I'm just speculating here. Do you take any vitamins, minerals or other supplements? Omega 3 supplements are supposed to be helpful for joint pain, but don't help everyone. It might be a good idea to contact Dr. McDougall and/or go to your doctor for an evaluation. Good luck.

[hope101]

One thing just to watch in the shoes is that the midsoles can age even though the rest of the shoe looks good, especially if they are indoor shoes. If you haven't replaced your shoes in a year it might be time for a new pair.

Also, although diet is important and could certainly be a factor here, inactivity might be. I know I actually get more aches and pains when I don't exercise than when I do. You might consider starting some lower body resistance training and/or yoga.

[Burgess]

I'd been cheating [...] Enough. I want to be thin and healthy, and I know how to do it right, I just have to DO IT.

Congratulations. You have gained an insight few ever learn: "cheating" and exception-making are self-destructive. So, my guideline is: Decide the right way to live and make no exceptions whatsoever.

So, in the past two months I've stuck like glue to the MWL program and finally am losing weight. I have lost almost 15 pounds in two months [...]

Again, congratulations! A suggestion based on personal experience: Set realistic expectations. If you average a loss of 1 pound per week, you will lose 52 pounds more in a year.

EXCEPT for one thing, for the past few weeks I have had increasing problems with my back and neck and all of my joints. I know I have arthritis in my neck, so no big surprise that it's all over BUT it should be getting better as I stick with the Program here, right? [...]

I don't have sore toes but my feet and ankles are really hurting me. [...]
There is no swelling, just jabbing pain in my ankles and a sore back and tailbone. Oh, and my knees are complaining.

Would you say more about the pains? For example, does the ankle pain jab for only a few seconds and then go away? Only when you are standing?

When you sit and stand, do you maintain perfect posture?

Are all the pains jabbing pains? Or are some continuous or throbbing? Which kind is your neck pain?

One last question (maybe): Why aren't you exercising daily?

[Mrs. Doodlepunk]

Would you say more about the pains? For example, does the ankle pain jab for only a few seconds and then go away? Only when you are standing?

They happen when I am standing and lean forward, in my ankles, like when grocery shopping and leaning over to pick up apples, or folding clothes that are on my bed. It is just a quick sharb jab and then it's gone, there is no lingering pain. There is no swelling or permanent effects from the jab.

My joints in my knees feel loose and my ankles also feel unsteady. I am being very careful on stairs.

When you sit and stand, do you maintain perfect posture?

Are all the pains jabbing pains? Or are some continuous or throbbing? Which kind is your neck pain?

One last question (maybe): Why aren't you exercising daily?

I'm not exercising because I find other things to do - mostly on purpose so I feel justified in not exercising! I think what I have to do is decide the same thing I did with the diet, I just have to do it.

My posture isn't good, it always improves when I've been exercising. My abdominal muscles are not strong, I know that I need to get in shape and I promise I'll start Monday. Really.

My neck is not too troublesome right now. If I avoid tilting my head back to see things - I have progressive lenses and play the organ and piano - I'm OK. When my neck is acting up, it is stiff and sore and I get a headache too. There are not usually sharp pains, it's a dull stiffness.

Birdy - I'm going to start using the lemon juice and drink more water.

Hope101 - It's been more than a year since I had new shoes and I hadn't thought of that. Thank you! Are you a Flybaby too?

Burgess - I have read your website a few times, your story is so interesting to me. My youngest son had eczema as an infant, and now he is a mostly-McDougaller and his skin is great. It's a long story, but he had problems all the time until I found McDougall. He also has dermatographia but it's much less severe than it was. I thought that I might need to try an elimination type diet on him but thankfully he seems to be doing fine right now. Anyway, it is so kind of you to have it all written out for people to read and learn from!

[Burgess]

They happen when I am standing and lean forward, in my ankles, like when grocery shopping and leaning over to pick up apples, or folding clothes that are on my bed. It is just a quick sharb jab and then it's gone, there is no lingering pain. There is no swelling or permanent effects from the jab.

My joints in my knees feel loose and my ankles also feel unsteady. I am being very careful on stairs. [...]

My posture isn't good, it always improves when I've been exercising. My abdominal muscles are not strong, I know that I need to get in shape and I promise I'll start Monday. Really.

My neck is not too troublesome right now. If I avoid tilting my head back to see things - I have progressive lenses and play the organ and piano - I'm OK. When my neck is acting up, it is stiff and sore and I get a headache too. There are not usually sharp pains, it's a dull stiffness.

All -- every one -- of the symptoms you describe are, in my nonprofessional opinion, posture problems. The pains are appearing at load-bearing points. A perfect posture distributes the load of your body weight evenly. Bad posture shifts the load to points not designed to carry it. Pain results.

I strongly recommend Pete Egoscue's book, Pain Free. Like many of Dr. McDougall's books, you don't have to read the whole book. However, you must read with very close attention all the introductory chapters for background information -- if you want to gain benefit from it.

Anyone using the book must follow the procedures exactly and every day, without exception and without fail.

Bad News: You might not see good results for several weeks. Bad posture is a result of bad habits over a matter of decades. A couple of days of exercise won't make up for that. But you will see improvement eventually.

If you do a lot of sitting (watching TV, at the computer, at the piano bench, and so forth), you probably should instead follow the exercises in Pete Egoscue's Pain Free at Your PC. I am following its Moderate Computer User's program, and it has helped a lot recently. PFYPC is a somewhat more advanced book than PF, but PFYPC may be just the right place to start if you are sitting alot.

I'm not exercising because I find other things to do - mostly on purpose so I feel justified in not exercising! I think what I have to do is decide the same thing I did with the diet, I just have to do it.

Exactly right. Bad news: Like eating the McDougall way, this self-improvement physical therapy program takes time and attention and total commitment. But, based on my experience and conversations with others who have followed the Egoscue method, you will very probably benefit greatly for the rest of your life -- if you follow the program.

You must not only do the therapy exercises every day, you must do one more exercise all the time, day and night: good posture. Practicing good posture takes attention and effort. It is hard work. It pays off, though. And, it gets easier as the months pass.

P. S. -- Good news, of a sort: You now have an even stronger motivation for losing a lot of weight -- taking the load off your misaligned joints, bones, tendons, and muscles. Fifty pounds less weight on your ankles will help by itself. Combined with a strictly followed physical therapy routine, everyday, should solve all or almost all of the problem.

[Mrs. Doodlepunk]

Thank you, Burgess. I ordered Pain Free at your PC just now.

[AnnaS]

Laura--You'll be glad you discovered Egoscue. This system has helped me a lot with aches and pains. I do the basic conditioning set every morning and it always makes me feel refreshed and ready to go.

One thing that I found was that the Egoscue exercises helped me feel 'ready' to do more strengthening, toning types of exercise, so they were a preparation or a kind of bridge to more vigorous exercise. I think that yoga sometimes gives people a similar start. Egoscue's perspective about pain and posture is really fascinating, though. See what you think!

--Anna

[hope101]

Laura: I'm not a flybaby any more, but I was for a while and still practice a lot of what I learned from her. One of these days I plan to sign up for the e-mails again. That's so funny that you would pick that up from my post. My husband had always been one to wear house shoes, and then when she started to explain the importance I gave it a try. Before that I had worn slippers, but it just isn't the same. I used to get leg and back pain a lot (I love to cook and am in the kitchen a lot), but not any more. I love my Crocs, even though I am told I am a fashion disaster. I am waiting until I finish losing the weight before I indulge myself in a few nicer pieces of clothing, but my Crocs will stay.

[Burgess]

Thank you, Burgess. I ordered Pain Free at your PC just now.

If you have any questions or problems with the book, PFYPC, let's start a new topic-thread with that book in the title.

For example, if you find that Egoscue recommends 40 repetitions of an exercise you have never done before, and 40 is simply too many, then you can:

1. Do 10 in the morning, 10 after lunch, and so forth.

OR

2. Do the exercise with perfect form but do only 10 repetitions per day for the first week, then 20 per day for the next week, and so forth.

By the way, I keep all my exercises on my To-Do list, so they pop up and stare at me every morning. But I get the satisfaction of checking them off one by one.

[Mrs. Doodlepunk]

I am waiting until I finish losing the weight before I indulge myself in a few nicer pieces of clothing, but my Crocs will stay.

You know what Flylady would say about that, don't you???!!! Don't you deserve nice stuff now? Just one outfit you like.

I just bought myself one new top as a reward for going down a size. It wasn't expensive, just 10 bucks. I plan on doing this whenever I go down one size. Hopefully by next summer I can get all new stuff. Tee hee.

[Mrs. Doodlepunk]

If you have any questions or problems with the book, PFYPC, let's start a new topic-thread with that book in the title.

Again, thank you Burgess! I will do that.

I am a registered nurse and always worked in critical care. I always tried to use correct body mechanics when lifting and working but most of the time when things needed doing I just did them - when it's an emergency usually attention to self flies out the window. I'm probably paying for it now, along with a tendency to slouch and the increased time sitting over the past few years.

I'm looking forward to getting this book and starting in on my new exercise routine!