I am gaining weight help!

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I am gaining weight help!

Postby Quiver0f10 » Fri Jan 02, 2009 6:25 am

Since Monday I have been eating on plan and excersizing 60 minutes a day and I am gaining weight. I am really getting frustrated and not sure if I need to cut calories more? I really am not interested in working out more than an hour as I don't have time with my large family.

I keep track of my food and excersize on www.sparkspeople.com. I weigh 167 pounds.

Yesterday I had:

1367 calories
6 grams of fat ( no added fat just from the foods I ate)
40 grams of fiber
34 grams of protein

I burned 375 calories on my walk.

What am I doing wrong?
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Postby VibrantVegan » Fri Jan 02, 2009 7:56 am

Quiverof10,

It sounds like you are doing everything right. Remember, weight loss is all about calories in vs. calories out. It is impossible to under eat and not lose weight. If your calorie consumption is where you say it is you can expect to lose weight. Sometimes our weight fluctuates by 5-10 pounds just because of water. Make sure you are well hydrated and keep at it.
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Re: I am gaining weight help!

Postby serenity » Fri Jan 02, 2009 8:52 am

Quiver0f10 wrote:Since Monday I have been eating on plan and excersizing 60 minutes a day and I am gaining weight. I am really getting frustrated and not sure if I need to cut calories more? I really am not interested in working out more than an hour as I don't have time with my large family.

What am I doing wrong?


I see from Roberta's corner that you are eating a bagel every day, sometimes with peanut butter. These are very high density foods, and are not recommended for weight loss, if that's your goal. Hope that helps.
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Re: I am gaining weight help!

Postby JeffN » Fri Jan 02, 2009 9:06 am

Greetings,

Weight, is a factor of energy balance.

However, it is often hard to accurately track energy balance due to the tools we have which are not accurate. In addition, remember, trained professionals who tracked their intake were 30-50% off.

That is why the program recommended for weight loss, the Maximum Weight Loss Program, recommends you follow the principles of calorie density and not to count calories and/or weigh and measure food. So, I am wondering which program you are following as none of the ones recommended by Dr McDougall or me recommend tracking your food. I do recommend the use of the CRON-O-Meter, but not as a weight loss tool but only as a check point to help people better understand their "nutritional" intake.

Also, you have provided little details about the bigger picture. Weight can change several pounds daily due to fluid balance, sodium intake, hormones, cycles. Average daily weight fluctuations can be in the range of 2-8 lbs a day and I have seen them in the doubel digits in heavier clients.

In regard to food, I would have been more interested in seeing the actual food that contributed to those numbers, but again, unless you weight and measured every single piece of food, it is not going to be very accurate. However, it would have given me an idea of the calorie density of the foods you are consuming as you do not have to weight and measure food to know its calorie density.

As Serenity pointed out, neither bagels or peanut butter are recommended on the MWL because of their calorie density, regardless of how many "calories" per serving they contain. Most bagels are also very high in sodium and varying sodium intake can cause a fluctuation in weight

I would also recommend against weighing one self anymore than 1x a week while losing weight because weight can fluctuate so much during weight loss for so many reasons and many can get disappointed when they see these fluctuations. So, while losing weight, I recommend weighing 1x week on the same day, on the same scale, at the same time with early morning right after awakening and right after voiding as the best time and way.

For those who still want to weight daily, I recommend they do a 7-10 day rolling average (as they use in finance and stocks) to help smooth out the curve of any fluctuations. However, once goal weight is achieved, I do recommend more frequent weighing (2-4x per week), even daily weighing if someone wanted as it is important to nip any weight gain in the butt before it gets out of hand.

In regard to metabolism, if you are overweight, you can not cause your metabolism to decrease below a level needed to lose weight while you have extra weight/fat on you, and you can not "lose more weight by eating more calories/food." This is a misunderstanding of the principles of metabolism that does not apply to overweight people trying to lose weight which is explained in the below posts.

If someone was not losing weight and were eating only 800-1000 calories and they were told they are in starvation mode and needed to eat more to lose weight and/or kickstart their metabolism, what do you think would happen if instead they just stopped eating altogether? :)

Would they go further into starvation mode and stay at the same weight or "gain" weight?

People who are truly starving from an inadequate caloric intake, will continue to starve and lose weight until there is nothing left of them but skin and bones.

Here is a picture of some of the subjects from the famous Minnesota Starvation experiments from the 1940s. Even at this point, after months of a low calorie diet with heavy exercise, they were not yet in the so-called "starvation mode" where they experienced significant metabolic changes. If you have more weight/fat on you then them, then neither are you. :)

Image

I would recommend you review the threads on calorie density including this one and my discussion of the "starvation mode."

http://drmcdougall.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=7419

and this one on "metabolism"

http://drmcdougall.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=8824

Calorie Density
http://www.drmcdougall.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=6032
http://www.drmcdougall.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=6916

If you follow the principles of the MWL program and remember that the 2 most important factors are time and adherence, you will lose weight.

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Last edited by JeffN on Fri Jan 02, 2009 1:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: I am gaining weight help!

Postby Quiver0f10 » Fri Jan 02, 2009 11:27 am

serenity wrote:
Quiver0f10 wrote:Since Monday I have been eating on plan and excersizing 60 minutes a day and I am gaining weight. I am really getting frustrated and not sure if I need to cut calories more? I really am not interested in working out more than an hour as I don't have time with my large family.

What am I doing wrong?


I see from Roberta's corner that you are eating a bagel every day, sometimes with peanut butter. These are very high density foods, and are not recommended for weight loss, if that's your goal. Hope that helps.


I did toss the rest of the bagels and had oats this morning. Hopefully that helps.
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Postby Quiver0f10 » Fri Jan 02, 2009 11:42 am

Thanks everyone. Jeff, I am weighing and measuring my foods so I know my calorie intake is probably pretty close to what I think. However, I did read what you said @ the bagel and did toss them.

I do get what you are saying about calorie density and eating the right foods, ( and I am aiming for more green veggies) but at some point to lose weight it's calorie in verses calorie out so in the long run don't calories consumed matter?

This is what I ate yesterday:

B: bagel, all fruit jam, banana ( bagel has 170 calories, 37 G carbs, 2G fat, 9 G protein, 8G fiber)
L: brown rice, kidney beans ( 3/4 measured cup), 2 measured TBSP BBQ sauce, broccoli , HUGE salad of baby spinach, baby greens, zucchini & summer squash, carrots, cukes and tomatoes 2 meaured TBSP fat free dressing 45 calories and o fat)
D: baked fries( no added fat), 1/2 cup peas
S: orange

This is today's:
B: 1/2 (uncooked) cup oats with 1/2 cup blueberries, banana
L: home fried potatoes, broccoli, 1/2 cup kidney beans with a TBSP BBQ sauce
D: brown rice(1 cup), broccoli, caulilfower, carrots and (vegan)cheeze sauce
S: pear, orange
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Postby JeffN » Fri Jan 02, 2009 12:51 pm

Quiver0f10 wrote:I do get what you are saying about calorie density and eating the right foods, ( and I am aiming for more green veggies) but at some point to lose weight it's calorie in verses calorie out so in the long run don't calories consumed matter?


Yes.

However we have absolutely no accurate and reliable methods to measure calories in or out. Even with our best methods, we still can't measure other factors that influence calories in vs out and/or weight (fluid balance, sodium, temperature, humidity, hormones, absorption, etc, etc) so out of many parts of the equation, we are only attempting to measure two and we can;t measure those two very well. When you go into a metabolic chamber, they measure many factors and not just calories in.

More importantly, it takes you focus off what really matters. Calories matter but calorie density (and nutrient density) is more important. We need to focus on the bigger "macro" picture and not the "micro" details. If we are taking care of the bigger picture, the micro details will almost always fall into place.

In addition, if you are consuming the right foods and are aware of calorie density, then you do not have to count calories as it will become virtually impossible to overeat on any of the recommend foods for MWL. Calorie counting takes us back to methods that do not work. Counting calories leads to portion control, which eventually leads us to hunger, which eventually leads us to overeating, which eventually leads us to failed attempts at dieting. Calorie density has worked in every study to date without any calorie counting or portion control.

If you have to limit the serving/portion of a food (or count its calories) than it is a food that is not recommended on the MWL.

If someone is not losing weight, it is almost always because of the bigger picture issues and counting calories can not fix the bigger picture issues.

If you follow the principles and guidelines of the MWL. program, you will lose weight. If you are following the guidelines and principles of the MWL and are not losing as fast as you like and you understand the principles and the bigger picture than you can make a slight shift in the overall calorie density of your intake and speed up the process.

Remember, at the 10 day program we have buffets of food and snacks all day long and the average weight loss is 3.5 lbs/week.

When they have looked at some long term weight loss, people tend to lose on average about 1% of their weight per week over the long term. For someone 300 lbs, this is 3 lbs per week. For someone 150 lbs, this is 1.5 lbs per week. Remember though, this is an average over the long term, so there will be weeks with greater loss, less loss and no loss.

If you think counting calories works for you and you are happy doing it, then please continue. But you posted your concern because it isn't working.

Understand that what we are trying to teach here at this website and in this forum is a completely different approach and a whole change in paradigm, mindset and way of thinking. It is a not a better way of doing the old system, but a whole new system that frees us of most all the problems associated with the old way of thinking.

I would recommend reviewing the principles of the MWL program and following them 100% for 12 weeks.

Calories count, but you do not have to count calories. :)

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Postby Quiver0f10 » Fri Jan 02, 2009 1:17 pm

Thanks, Jeff. I am going to keep on keeping on. I know this is the best way for me to eat and I don't plan on changing.
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Postby Quiver0f10 » Wed Jan 07, 2009 12:20 pm

Well the scale has finally moved in the right direction and I hope to be able to update my ticker on Thursday!
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Re:

Postby JeffN » Tue Jan 05, 2010 7:45 pm

JeffN wrote:However we have absolutely no accurate and reliable methods to measure calories in or out. Even with our best methods, we still can't measure other factors that influence calories in vs out and/or weight (fluid balance, sodium, temperature, humidity, hormones, absorption, etc, etc) so out of many parts of the equation, we are only attempting to measure two and we can;t measure those two very well. When you go into a metabolic chamber, they measure many factors and not just calories in.


More recent evidence supporting the difficult of anyone accurately counting calories in the everyday world..

http://www.baltimoresun.com/health/la-h ... 2195.story

Counting calories burned is not as easy as 1-2-3

Devices use approximations of a number of factors. 'They can be right on -- or as much as 25% or 30% high or low,' a Wisconsin professor says.

By Karen Ravn
January 4, 2010

Whether you're trudging on a treadmill, pedaling on an exercise bike or taking on Roger Federer in a Wii game of Grand Slam Tennis, the machine will probably give you a reading of how many calories are going up in sweat.

In fact, no matter what you're doing -- and that includes doing nothing -- you can find a gadget to compute how many calories you're working off.

But should you put a lot of weight on these figures?

"The short answer is no," says Dr. Chris Cooper, director of the UCLA exercise physiology research laboratory. "They're all estimates based on a number of assumptions."

"They can be right on -- or as much as 25% or 30% high or low," says John Porcari, a professor of exercise and sport science at the University of Wisconsin in La Crosse.

Arriving at a true count of how many calories you're burning, i.e., your energy expenditure, is not as simple as 1-2-3. To get a direct count while, say, you're ellipting along on an elliptical, you would have to be in a special room where precise measurements could be made of the heat released from your body. This method (based on the fact that burning calories releases heat) is possible but usually not practical.

The machines or gizmos that purport to count the calories you burn only estimate them based on factors related to those calories: weight, heart rate, oxygen consumption. So the numbers they yield are approximations -- scientifically based approximations. Some approximations, of course, are more approximate than others.

Measuring oxygen

One of the higher-tech calorie-counting methods -- indirect calorimetry -- measures how much oxygen a person consumes and how much carbon dioxide he or she produces when exercising at different intensity levels, as indicated by heart rate. Scientists have developed equations for converting these measurements into calories burned, i.e., equations to calculate how many calories you're burning when your heart is beating at a given rate.

Some, but not all, gyms and health clubs are equipped to measure clients this way. The measurement is too cumbersome and complicated for day-to-day calorie counting, but once you've been tested, you can use the results to count calories whenever and wherever you please. You simply need to load your personal data into a suitable heart rate monitor, and the monitor can then convert heartbeats to calories burned.

The conversion isn't 100% accurate. A number of factors unrelated to calorie burning can influence your heart rate -- environmental temperature, your own temperature, your anxiety level, etc. Your heart might start racing when you're simply sitting there, not moving a muscle, listening to your boss give you a raise -- or a pink slip.

The conversion also depends on the sort of exercise you're doing. New Leaf, a health and fitness company whose technology is used by many fitness centers, accounts for this variable by loading two sets of data into your heart monitor -- one for weight-bearing exercise (such as walking or jogging) and one for non-weight-bearing exercise (such as riding a stationary bike).

If clients exercise regularly, the relationship between heart rate and calories burned will change over time. New Leaf recommends rechecking your profile after exercising for 12 weeks to see if you need to enter new numbers into your heart monitor. "But eventually you'll plateau out," says Terry Kapsen, senior vice president of marketing and business development at New Leaf. That is, you won't keep getting fitter and fitter forever.

Using averages

The more common type of calorie counters compute how many calories an individual burns according to average measurements for people who are similar to the individual in certain ways, such as age, gender, weight and fitness level.

Life Fitness, a leading manufacturer of exercise equipment headquartered in Schiller Park, Ill., takes that approach with its machines. You enter your weight and wear a heart rate monitor. The counter then calculates how many calories you burn according to what an average person of that weight would burn while exercising at the intensity indicated by the monitor, at the level of difficulty associated with the training program you're using. Life Fitness has 38 programs, with a different calorie-counting equation for each.

If you choose not to enter your weight on a Life Fitness machine, it will assume you weigh 150 pounds. In general, this will overestimate calorie use if you weigh less than 150 and underestimate it if you weigh more, especially on weight-bearing exercises.

How well averages work for calibrating calorie counters depends to some extent on the type of exercise you're doing, says William Haskell, an exercise physiologist and professor of medicine at Stanford University.

* Treadmills (as long as they ask for your weight) and exercise bikes (where weight is less important because you're sitting down) offer fairly good accuracy.

* Machines such as ellipticals or cross-country skiing simulations, which require a certain skill level for proper use and are calibrated according to people with that skill level, are less reliable. So are calorie counters that attach to outdoor bikes because they should -- but probably can't -- take gear ratio, wind (direction and strength) and terrain (uphill, downhill or flat) into account.

* Holding on to handrails can throw off the count on treadmills and stair-climbing machines. The rails support part of your weight, and the counter can overestimate the calories you're using by 30% to 40% because the averages come from people who are not holding on or using the rails to help pull themselves forward.

Combining data

Maybe you want to know how many calories you're burning, not just when you're using an exercise machine but also when you're climbing Mt. Everest -- or eating a stick of celery. You can find devices that will tell you.

One example is the bodybugg, perhaps the biggest star on the reality show "The Biggest Loser." It uses a motion sensor to follow every move you make and determine your level of activity. But it also measures your skin temperature, how much heat your body is giving off and your galvanic skin response (basically, how much you're sweating).

By considering these four types of data, the bodybugg can be very accurate, says Kim Slover, a bodybugg services manager at Apex Fitness Group in Westlake Village.

"For example, maybe I'm sweating a lot because I'm nervous, not because I'm moving. The motion sensor will pick up on that."

Researchers say the bodybugg's accuracy depends on how it converts the data to calories -- which the manufacturer hasn't made public -- but the algorithm must be based on averages.

"This is an exciting area of research, developing ways to use personal activity monitors to calculate energy expenditure," Cooper says. "But if you look at the literature to see what's been published, you won't find anything."

For practical purposes

Of devices currently available, Cooper says, "calorimetry is very different from wearing one of these gizmos on your arm." And Porcari calls them "OK, but not fantastic."

No technology available today can guarantee 100% accurate calorie counts for exercise you do in your daily life. Just how heavily that weighs on your mind may depend on your perspective.

"Suppose your count is 100 calories too high every day," says Sean Sutter, senior product manager for New Leaf. "That adds up to 10 pounds of fat over a year. It makes a huge difference."

On the other hand, if you regularly use the same machine or gadget or gizmo, your calorie counts should be consistent, however accurate they are or are not, so you can get a pretty good comparison of how much you do from day to day. And in that sense, at least, Haskell says, "they can be useful devices."

And remember, of course, if you want to work off 300 calories from a slice of pepperoni pizza or 400 calories from a piece of apple pie -- those are only estimates too.

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Re: I am gaining weight help!

Postby lfwfv » Wed Jan 06, 2010 7:05 am

This entire thread has been very helpful. I especially appreciate the idea that calories do count, but that we don't need to count them. We just need to eat when we're hungry and focus on the nutrient dense, low-calorically dense foods and we'll reach our lean size. Thanks for taking the time to post all of this Jeff!
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Re: I am gaining weight help!

Postby Gweithgar » Wed Jan 06, 2010 2:03 pm

Very interesting thread! Thank you especially for the information laying the "starvation mode" idea to rest. I have heard that stated as absolute fact for a long time, and to find out that it just isn't so (especially for people with extra fat on board) is very freeing. So I can honestly say that I learned something useful and new today.
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Re: Re:

Postby JeffN » Wed Jan 06, 2010 2:27 pm

Correct, there is no such thing as the starvation mode for anyone who has extra weight and extra body fat on them.

There are several posts with detailed discussions on this, including pictures of all this.

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