Moderators: JeffN, carolve, Heather McDougall
raw curls wrote:I agree with a lot that is being written here.
I have to say I felt very "beat up" from feedback commentary in my journal, that I ended up having a moderator delete it. I was in fact following McDougall's guidelines, pertaining to fat intake, I had less fat in 3 days than I would have had in an entire meal before starting the program.
So what if they are using the fat free mayonnaise - in my case it was in a McDougall *approved* recipe. there is no need to pick people's diets apart here, to the point of being obnoxious. Support is what people really need, not the negativity.
raw curls wrote: I'm confused that it would call for "fat free" mayonnaise if all mayo is going to have some fat in it.
Does anyone understand this?
Dechen wrote:I am a newbie but I feel I need to give my 5 pennies worth on this.
I understand, and did so from the start, Dr McDoughall's Diet to be a kind of Base Camp, guidelines rather than an absolute, a place to start but movable to what each person needs. I think that shows up well in the Star McDoughallers.
The diet was adapted to their needs and that, plus perseverance, is what ultimately brought results.
Dechen wrote: I live in the UK and can not get some stuff so I get the closest thing to it. I do not think of it as cheating or falling short of some standard.
Dechen wrote:PS: Jeff...I hope Sheila is doing well I love her in your videos.
raw curls wrote:Hi Jeff - yes this was in another forum on here, in the journaling area. Not in any of your threads. You never made any inappropriate or obnoxious comments, sorry for the confusion.
SactoBob wrote:The reason I brought this product up in the other thread is because it seemed that some people were suggesting using this product freely because it is zero fat. In fact, it is not even close to zero fat. That is not to say that it cannot be used by anybody as a condiment. But people without the understanding of food labels (like I was before Jeff's dvd) will think that it can be used freely when it cannot, and when some people would best avoid it completely.
SactoBob wrote:I also have a question for Jeff as to how certain products are approved on these lists. It seems to me that from the label, it cannot be determined how much fat is in the product. Should there be some cautions or caveats on that list?.
SactoBob wrote:I know that I previously failed on the McDougall program by doing exactly what Jeff has talked about - not understanding the difference between foods that could be eaten freely and those which could be used in small amounts with caution and understanding that they are not optimal. .
SactoBob wrote: In my case, I needed and still need optimal, or close to it.
Letha.. wrote:You make it sound as if using the term “McDougall Program” is somehow inappropriate.
Letha.. wrote:I find this strange since Dr. McDougall has a book are titled, “The McDougall Program: 12 Days to Dynamic Health"
Letha.. wrote: To be fair Dr. McDougall does write this on page 173 of the above mentioned book,
“A few people do find that significant loss of weight while they’re on a healthy diet is a very slow process. If you’re sixty or seventy pounds overweight and you’re losing only a pound or so a week, you may be impatient as well as discouraged. In that case, you should concentrate on eating the starches having the lowest calorie yields until your weight has dropped appreciably. Use potatoes, rice, squash, and corn as the starch center for your meals. Stay away from bread.”
According to Dr. McDougall’s books you can achieve weight loss, lowered cholesterol, lower triglycerides, lower blood pressure, & lower blood sugar by following the 12 Day Program that includes all of the foods on his list of approved packaged foods. He only suggests that you adhere to the MWL guidelines if you feel impatient or discouraged by the slow speed of your weight loss.
Letha.. wrote:On the other hand, you recommend that everyone basically follow the MWL guidelines unless they have met all of their health goals. I personally feel this is a significant difference between the two of you that could lead to confusion for folks attempting to follow the program.
Letha.. wrote:Your opinion based on your experience is clear and easy to understand. But it appears to me to be different from Dr. McDougall’s opinion based on his experience.
Letha.. wrote:Why do I think this is important? Because I think your recommendations can have the effect of causing people to put a bowl of cheerios with rice milk and a spoonful of white sugar in the same category as a Burger King Whopper and French Fries.
Letha.. wrote:Cheerios with rice milk and a spoonful of sugar would be in compliance with Dr. McDougall’s program as outlined in his books
Letha.. wrote:even if it’s not in line with the dietary recommendations that you give to people on this forum.
Letha.. wrote:In general I think your advice is sound. I personally see it as advanced McDougalling. Something that can be attempted after you’ve mastered regular McDougalling.
Letha.. wrote:I think there is value in discussion with people who disagree with you. It appears that you disagree with Dr. McDougall’s recommendations in several areas. That’s fine with me. But I think that for individuals attempting to change their dietary habits it can be confusing to see you give advice that is different than Dr. McDougall’s.
JeffN wrote:For the record, the time, energy and effort I put in at these forums is done on my own as a volunteer and was started at my own request.
JeffN wrote:
Now, to be fair, on the other hand, are you implying that a bowl of cheerios with rice milk and a spoonful of white sugar is in the same category as a baked sweet potato and steamed broccoli?
I hope not.
Jeff
Letha.. wrote:Yes, I do put a bowl of cheerios with rice milk and a spoonful of sugar into the same category with a baked sweet potato and steamed broccoli.
JeffN wrote:And, the people I am dealing with here are not the ones who are successful or they would not be coming to me. And many of them have been trying to implement the program on their own, even from the books you mentioned.
In Health
Jeff
Letha.. wrote:So, it sounds to me like you are saying that following the McDougall Program’ as outlined by Dr. John McDougall in his book “The McDougall Program: 12 Days to Dynamic Health” is not always successful in lowering cholesterol, triglycerides, blood pressure, blood sugar, and weight. I was not aware of this. Are there any statistics that you can share about how often the program is not successful?
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