L-Arginine Anyone uses?

[heartchakra]

Hello,

I know generally Dr Mcdougall advises against supplementation but much to my dissapointment, my parents, aged 70, do not follow this way of eating as much as I would like them to .

I was reading about cardio health and L-arginine and Dr Ignarro's research on it and the subsequent Nobel prize for medicine which he got. He advises taking large doses of 4-6 gms and also to add L-citruline.

Does anyone here have experience with this or any comments.

With love to all,

Deepak

[eXtremE]

I have no personal experience with this supplement but I know many ppl here seem to take b12 and vitamin D even tho Dr. McD probably advises against the D vitamin. Supplementation is still very controversial. Just like B12 tho, if you are deficient and can't get what you are deficient in up to healthy levels using healthy PB foods, then supplementation makes sense to me. I recently started taking B12 myself.

Are your parents still healthy at this point even tho they don't follow this WOE?

[vgpedlr]

I assume the arginine is for its nitric oxide generating effect and the subsequent vasodilation. You can get the same effect from leafy greens, Esselstyn's favorite, or beets. Beet juice is so potent that it enhances performance and is a breakfast staple for pro cycling teams. Dr. Greger has some excellent videos on the subject.

[eXtremE]

I don't think I have ever eaten beets. I vaguely recall trying them once as a kid and not liking them. I also use to not like greens like mustard, kale, and collards but I am eating lots of them now.

[f1jim]

Dr. Esselstyn mentioned avoiding taking this supplement this weekend. He said it was dangerous. I would think Dr. McDougall would also advise similarly.
f1jim

[eXtremE]

IC you are back to posting some Jim...ASW must be over.

[f1jim]

Yep. I'm back. I did post a bit during the event but it's very hard with the schedule they give us.
f1jim

[dteresa]

The problem is that the parents in question do not like to eat those healthful nitric oxide producing vegetables. It is unlikely that, barring a serious adverse health event, they would change at this stage of life. The question is, are there any foods or ways of preparing food that would give them the benefit of increasing nitric oxide?

It should raise a red flag when someone says to take a large quantity of a supplement except perhaps for a specific, diagnosed deficiency. We know there are so many studied cases of people being worse off after taking a supplement. They just do not do what the real food does and the fact that they are isolated apart from the whole food in which they no doubt work in conjunction with the other nutrients makes supplements a whole different ball game.

didi

[darad]

Dr Esselstyn spoke in 2012, that Arginine supplements will increase risk of heart attacks. This was shown in a 2006 study, which was terminated due to this increase for post myocardial infarction (MI) patients. He says to generate nitric oxide via your gastrointestinal tract.

Lead author of the study, Dr Steven Schulman (Johns Hopkins Medical Institutions, Baltimore, MD), told heart wire that the results show that L-arginine should not be taken by MI patients. "This trial reinforces the [idea] that all treatments, even dietary supplements, need to be tested in randomized studies," he added.

Speculating on what might have caused the harmful effect seen in older patients in this study, Schulman suggested that increasing nitric oxide might not always be beneficial. He explained to heart wire that, in animal studies, increasing nitric-oxide levels has been shown to worsen outcomes in severe atherosclerosis and that, in the current study, the older patients could have had more severe atherosclerosis. But he warned that the increased mortality seen in older patients in this study was not definite. "Mortality was not our primary end point, and the stopping of the study by the data and safety monitoring board was a cautious move. We cannot, therefore, say this is definitely harmful. It is just a hypothesis-generating observation."

Interesting.

[heartchakra]

Why cant they state their hypotheses and positions more clearly !

Well, this study I see is for post MI patients and even out of those I read 2-3 of the 6 that died , died due to infection and not heart related.

And then there are other studies that speak highly of arginine's' benefits.

While I do understand following this way of eating is the best for for long term good heart health, I am wondering if this could be a good supplement for people who do not follow this way of eating fully.

[f1jim]

If one is determined to find better health in a pill one will never understand the concept of getting our nutrients in the complex and wonderful packaging nature provides. To try to compensate for a bad diet by consuming a lab produced, concentrated form of the nutrient, devoid of the other naturally occurring nutrients may possibly never be comprehended.
To understand the importance of nutrients, yet never grasp the best role in consuming them is like watching a dog chase his tail.
For some, they are forever learning but never coming to the truth.
f1jim

[bbq]

IMHO we're bound to fail as long as we still keep looking for that magic bullet called monotherapy.

Things just don't add up once we consider the disease itself should have been caused by multiple factors. That's basically a combination of things such as stress, eating habits, and the usual suspects.

"Sow a thought, reap an action; sow an action, reap a habit; sow a habit, reap a character; sow a character, reap a destiny," the maxim goes. (Stephen R. Covey)

We've been behaving ourselves into the mess we're facing. Do we really expect a single miracle could save the day? That miracle is called hitting the jackpot or winning the lottery. How many of us would actually get so lucky?

It does take a little while to get rid of that way of thinking while adopting a new way of eating. Such paradigm shift requires a different mindset from the mentality that's so prevalent in our popular culture these days.

Always an uphill battle while doing our best to be principle-centered rather than pleasure-centered. And not all of us could see the trap right after all that "pleasure" so to speak.

[baardmk]

IMHO we're bound to fail as long as we still keep looking for that magic bullet called monotherapy.

Things just don't add up once we consider the disease itself should have been caused by multiple factors. That's basically a combination of things such as stress, eating habits, and the usual suspects.

"Sow a thought, reap an action; sow an action, reap a habit; sow a habit, reap a character; sow a character, reap a destiny," the maxim goes. (Stephen R. Covey)

We've been behaving ourselves into the mess we're facing. Do we really expect a single miracle could save the day? That miracle is called hitting the jackpot or winning the lottery. How many of us would actually get so lucky?

It does take a little while to get rid of that way of thinking while adopting a new way of eating. Such paradigm shift requires a different mindset from the mentality that's so prevalent in our popular culture these days.

Always an uphill battle while doing our best to be principle-centered rather than pleasure-centered. And not all of us could see the trap right after all that "pleasure" so to speak.

Very well said!

I keep struggling to overcome that way of thinking.

[grannyguru]

I think it caused my shingles outbreak.

First I developed neuropathy, probably from statins, etc. I had some success getting the feeling back, but not complete. Read in different health forums about l-arginine and bought the book by the prize winner. seeking to help my toes with nitric acid boost.

Checked for side effects. Somewhere the discoverer said there are no side effects. I checked online to be sure. I was already using a lot of cashews, not knowing they were high in l-arginine. What did Dr Mcdougall say not to eat too many as they are rich........

I suddenly developed a huge case of shingles. I was using the discoverer's supplement and had just swallowed another dose while researching shingles when I discovered that shingles appears when lysine is overbalanced by l-arginine!

I stopped the l-arginine immediately and stopped eating cashews, but I must have really been overloaded with it. I noticed a shingles response in stopping the l-arginine, but I am still paying for it with the shingles aftermath.

I'd be careful about taking it. Or if you think you need it, get it from food.

Hmmmm.... maybe Dr Mcdougall is right when he says don't use supplements.... use whole foods.

I guess I won't be fooling around with any supplements anytime soon.