Dr. McDougall on the Livin' La Vida Low Carb Show!!!!

[KittyMcKnitty]

I still have the LLVLC show in my iTunes podcasts just to see if a guest interests me, and today I see Dr. John McDougall! Wishes do come true.

I haven't listened to it yet, but the show description is a doozy:

... Considering I’ve interviewed other big-name vegan advocates before such as Dr. Dean Ornish and Dr. Neal Barnard, I fully intended to treat Dr. McDougall with the same respect and civility that I do with all of my invited podcast guests. That’s why it was disappointing when Dr. McDougall decided to turn hostile, shutting down any discussion that he didn’t want to engage in (i.e. he didn’t want to hear anything about the negative impact refined carbohydrates have played on the metabolic health of modern people) and personally lodging attacks against me. What I found most ironic was how he continued to cite me as an example of why people shouldn’t do low-carb, but then says I’m merely “a study of one” when I share how good my weight and health are. Too funny!

I should mention that he did not treat Dr. Ornish or Dr. Barnard with respect and civility. Dr. Barnard ignored the rudeness and Dr. Ornish finally politely ended the interview.

[Orange1]

Wait so there is no interview to listen to?

[annhett]

should people take advice from an overweight nutritionist?

[annhett]

you can listen here:
http://www.thelivinlowcarbshow.com/shownotes/

[f1jim]

It may seem unfair but that really is the right approach. Jimmy Moore has been heavy his entire life. For most of his adult life he has been heavy- not as heavy-heavy-etc. His "directions" for eating healthy have changed as well as his methods for monitoring his health.
Contrast this with Dr. McDOugall who has had an unhealthy start to life, then changed and for the last several decades has been trim, healthy, and stable. Hmmm. Who would I best listen to for dietary advice? That's not to say Jimmy Moore might not have an interesting viewpoint but if it's my life on the line I think I'll stick with a proven racehorse on this track we go around once on. I really don't feel like blowing in the wind with the changes Jimmy Moore has gone through and may yet again go through.
I am not sure what the situation with this interview was but I'll have to ask Dr. McDougall about it when time permits. Dr. McDougall doesn't waste a lot of time on things that are unproductive in getting the truth about health out and there is no telling what he saw as obstacles to getting that truth out. He is an adult knowing full well his time on this planet is finite. The work is seemingly endless and the message needs to go out to those that don't understand. If he felt his time was wasted on this individual it was probably a good call.
f1jim

[bbq]

That's really like TONS of stuff to do for those 40 patients

http://clinicaltrials.gov/ct2/show/NCT01381354

FYI - some links to MP3 downloads below

Interview with Barnard
http://traffic.libsyn.com/llvlcshow/llvlc415-dr-neal-barnard.mp3
http://llvlcshow.libsyn.com/dr-neal-barnard-on-vegetarian-and-vegan-diabetes-control-episode-415-

Interview with Ornish
http://traffic.libsyn.com/llvlcshow/LLVLC-657-dean-ornish.mp3
http://llvlcshow.libsyn.com/657-llvlc-classic-dean-ornish-on-the-common-ground-between-low-fat-and-low-carb

Interview with McDougall
http://traffic.libsyn.com/llvlcshow/LLVLC-686_John-McDougall.mp3
http://llvlcshow.libsyn.com/686-dr-john-mc-dougall-explains-why-everyone-should-be-eating-starchy-carbs

[KittyMcKnitty]

Wow. I'm listening to it now (whilst shoveling noodles and marinara into my face) and Dr. McDougall is doing really well. It is a little cringe-inducing, because Moore is forcing him to point out the obvious. For example, Moore will ask Dr. McDougall to explain how he (Moore) is thriving, forcing Dr. McDougall to point out the obvious.

Dr. McDougall is being somewhat combative, but as someone who has seen myself and others harmed by the diet Moore promotes, I applaud it.

[Kiki]

Wow, BBQ. Is that 16 supplements including a full spectrum multivitamin? (17 if you include coconut oil?) How can that study really be a study about the effects of diet with all that 'noise'?

*******

I listened to the interview. Mostly Dr. McDougall reiterates what he's been saying and writing for decades -- the starch-based diet is the diet of all large, successful populations in history and the one that modern people will continue to thrive on. I suppose for some low-carbers who haven't heard these arguments it might be new, but probably not for McDougallers.

Moore's biggest beef seems to be with Vegsource posting some videos accusing him of being fat and still struggling with his weight after years on his diet. The thing is Moore has lost some weight, which is good. But, he has also yo-yo'd and he still isn't thin even in his 'corrected' photos. I'm also not sure why he thinks he's healthy when his hair analysis showed several mineral deficiencies, his blood sugars seem to have gone from the low 80s to low 90s during the course of his ketosis, and I don't see info posted about his cholesterol, nitric oxide levels, etc.

Thanks for posting this though. I may look up the Dr. Barnard and Ornish interviews out of curiosity.

[f1jim]

After listening to the whole interview it's clear Dr. McDougall wanted to talk statistics and data. Jimmy Moore's response was Dr. Wahls, who hasn't published anything and himself because he is doing fine at this very moment(we think). Seems like a highly unbalanced set of facts but if you want your meat, dairy, or oils I guess it might sound good.
I also appreciated the banter about the best diet which sounds like a lot of the banter on these forums where individuals maintain that we are all different, hence , different diets for different people. That flies in the face of not only observable history but clinical evidence as well. There is a healthy diet for all humans, it doesn't change like personalities. All humans can and will thrive on a McDougall type starch diet. Using Jimmy Moore as evidence against that statement will never make sense if the data and the research either scares you or is not to your liking. I wonder just how many people really came to the conclusion Jimmy Moore did will in this interview?
f1jim

[didi]

In his most recent lecture in Australia, Mr. Moore said his cholesterol was well over 300 and his ldl was well over 200 but it doesn't matter because he is healthy. His HbA1c is under 5 he says. He also uses something called Glycosolve to lower his blood sugars.

According to him in this particular lecture, he started to gain weight after about a year and a half on Atkins and after nine years went on a "nutritional" ketosis diet because he had gained so much weight. What he did not emphasize in this talk was that over those years he continued to espouse his low carb diet, give "help" to folks who wanted to follow his low carb way, broadcast his opinions on his blog and show and I assume write a book or books.

Now this diet did not do the trick for him but he said that we all have to adjust if a particular diet does not work for us, thus the new 85% fat ketosis diet. Evidently protein was the culprit causing his weight gain and higher sugars so he lowered protein, continued even lower carbs and drastically increased fat.

It is incumbant upon us to remember that Jimmy Moore is about 41 years old and artery damage occurs over many years. And of course, if he wants to continue making money from his diet advice he must find ways to convince people that black is white, up is down and other hard to believe "facts" in order to be credible. What amazes me is his ability to sell snake oil and keep old admirers and perhaps gather new ones.

I have not listened to the interview with Dr. McDougall. I did start to listen to the you tube debate between Ornish and Taubes (and possibly a third person) but did not get very far because although Ornish was a gentleman, Taubes repeatedly interrupted asking for facts and studies that Ornish had already presented and in general said nothing to enhance his ideas but engaged in nonsense. So I did not watch very much. I do not think Taubes would last five minutes on a highschool debating team. They have rules.

If doctor McD is somewhat combative in a debate then he is the perfect person to debate the irrepressibly rude and illogical but arrogant Taubes. Jimmy Moore is small potatoes.

didi

[Lacey]

I thought that Dr. McDougall did an excellent job of holding his ground while Moore kept trying to change the discussion to one about refined carbs. Dr. McDougall wouldn't let him do it. It is hard for me to think that even Moore's regular listeners thought that Moore did a good job defending his position.

I normally wouldn't bring this up as I don't want to sound catty, but, just as the VegSource video pointed out that those who are advocating a low-carb or so-called "paleo" diet are themselves overweight, the picture of Gina Ryan (whose ad runs at the beginning of the broadcast) shows a woman who is herself overweight. It is only head and shoulders but she looks overweight and I assume if she had a picture that made her look thinner she would be using it.

[Tom Dylan]

Greetings,


Low Carb apologist Jimmy Moore got confronted with the cold hard facts by Dr. McDougall. He deserved it--his type of misinformation is costing lives. We can't afford to sugar-coat it!

I myself was diverted by the Atkins approach, and spent twenty years unsuccessfully struggling to lose weight.

I don't think Jimmy Moore is a bad guy, just sincerely mistaken. To his credit, he gave Dr. McDougall plenty of leeway in the interview, and took the personal criticism fairly well.

Unfortunately, Mr. Moore is compromising his health in an effort to lose weight and keep it off, and has little chance of long term success. Such a diet requires a lot of willpower; I know from experience! Hopefully someday he will stop struggling and start living The Starch Solution!

[groanofthewind]

I'm surprised he didn't bring up his cholesterol. Jimmy says his health is fine but his blood lipids indicate extremely high risk.

I was into low carb/paleo/primal for several years and only had a decline in health. I used to follow jimmy moore and all the podcasts and blogs and bought into it all.
I think the only people that benefit from that type of diet is the people that came from SAD or had a very poor vegetarian or low fat diet.

Ditching that silliness and concentrating on whole starches has made me feel so much better. I would love to see jimmy give it a proper attempt one day. There's been tonnes of people with worse "metabolic derangement" than he has had which healed on a starch diet. Yet he's swallowed the hogwash that he's stuck and stranded in low carb. Which is guess he is financially and image wise, but definitely not physiological.

[healthyvegan]

outstanding interview. I think Jimmy Moore was very respectful. I hope he listens to Dr. McDougall. He seems like he could flip and get himself healthy.

[didi]

There is an intelligent and knowledgeable fellow on the web md diet debate group whose diet is very low carb and more than 80% fat. He has been on this diet since the late nineteen nineties and is healthy and I think, slim. He was not doing well on a diet that contained fruit and more carbs, nor is he someone who would eat a diet high in refined carbs and not acknowledge that it was the cause of his health problems. I believe his diet is called the optimal diet and was espoused by a Polish doctor. However, there are no long term follow ups of the people who were supposed to have improved their health on this diet.

If someone has been on this diet for several years--more than 15-- and is healthy, one cannot argue that for him this is not working. For myself, I prefer to go with the abundant evidence in favor of eating a whole plant food diet and eliminating meats and especially dairy and eggs. One has to choose and you can't have it both ways. Jimmy Moore is his own argument against an Atkins diet but time will tell about his "nutritional" ketosis diet. (What does nutritional ketosis mean, anyway?) Arriving at a state that resembles starvation while still eating?

didi