ASW Weekend Update

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Re: ASW Weekend Update

Postby VeggieSue » Wed Feb 22, 2012 3:18 am

I haven't had time to watch the videos yet and it's been years since I read Eat to Live, but I remember Dr. F's plan being a *minimum* of a cup of beans daily, that more is better.

Dr. McD always limited beans to a *maximum* of a cup a day.


Did Dr. Fuhrman really say it's now limited to a half cup a day?
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Re: ASW Weekend Update

Postby Raytaupedi » Wed Feb 22, 2012 6:05 am

I too enjoyed the debate from home. I have read both Dr M and Dr F's books and feel they complement each other very well especially if you sprinkle in a little Jeff Novick. My personal approach is to try to eat as much vegetables especially leafy greens as I can stand and then eat potatoes rice beans etc to keep from being hungry. So far so good
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Re: ASW Weekend Update

Postby f1jim » Wed Feb 22, 2012 6:50 am

Because that is not the complete plan. Dr. Fuhrman says get those items in the diet and fill in with other things like starchy vegetables and his recommendation for nuts and seeds is generally 1 to 2oz.
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Re: ASW Weekend Update

Postby Starchyme » Wed Feb 22, 2012 7:00 am

Correct, Jim. Dr. Fuhrman does allow starchy veggies and taters, yams, squash, grains, legumes, etc. So I don't see how one could feel starved on his program. He greatly limits refined foods that cause many people to experience cravings. He calls it 'toxic hunger' I believe. But they can be eaten occasionally.

I've attended two of his getaways and food was in abundance. I never felt hungry. In fact could have done very well with 2 meals daily.

They both also recommend eating only when hungry and to stop before getting too full.
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Re: ASW Weekend Update

Postby greentea » Wed Feb 22, 2012 7:42 am

Did Dr Fuhrman say anything about white potatoes in the debate? I have his book "super immunity" and he lists white potatoes as one of the foods you should avoid. Does white potato include russets, yellow fleshed, yukon, new & red? I can see where people get confused. :)
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Re: ASW Weekend Update

Postby Lani Muelrath » Wed Feb 22, 2012 8:04 am

greentea wrote:Did Dr Fuhrman say anything about white potatoes in the debate? I have his book "super immunity" and he lists white potatoes as one of the foods you should avoid. Does white potato include russets, yellow fleshed, yukon, new & red? I can see where people get confused. :)


I too brought up the 'what white potatoes?' question in conversations. The only way I recall it being addressed in presentations was with sweet potatoes vs. white. Sweet potatoes always come out the champ.

I did have several conversations with 2 women there from PCRM. I asked them about it, because Dr. Barnard does limit 'white' potatoes. So I asked them his stance on 'what white potatoes?' because I, like you, wonder how the golds, the reds, the more 'waxy' types fit in.

The response was that the blood sugar response of the baked uber-white potatoes are Dr. Barnard's concern, yet the didn't have a definitive reply on the others. I mentioned that when I cook potatoes, they are usually steamed and the more waxy type, and their perception was that this might well be different.

But I have resource at PCRM who I will make it a point to write to today, and then report back in on my findings there, OK?

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Re: ASW Weekend Update

Postby Lani Muelrath » Wed Feb 22, 2012 8:31 am

Lani Muelrath wrote:
greentea wrote:Did Dr Fuhrman say anything about white potatoes in the debate? I have his book "super immunity" and he lists white potatoes as one of the foods you should avoid. Does white potato include russets, yellow fleshed, yukon, new & red? I can see where people get confused. :)


I too brought up the 'what white potatoes?' question in conversations. The only way I recall it being addressed in presentations was with sweet potatoes vs. white. Sweet potatoes always come out the champ.

I did have several conversations with 2 women there from PCRM. I asked them about it, because Dr. Barnard does limit 'white' potatoes. So I asked them his stance on 'what white potatoes?' because I, like you, wonder how the golds, the reds, the more 'waxy' types fit in.

The response was that the blood sugar response of the baked uber-white potatoes are Dr. Barnard's concern, yet the didn't have a definitive reply on the others. I mentioned that when I cook potatoes, they are usually steamed and the more waxy type, and their perception was that this might well be different.

But I have resource at PCRM who I will make it a point to write to today, and then report back in on my findings there, OK? I do want to add that I am like Dr. McDougall in that it is more important to 'win the war' rather than each battle. Potatoes are not going to be that which make or break. It's all the other stuff that we should be getting rid of.

Lani
Last edited by Lani Muelrath on Wed Feb 22, 2012 10:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: ASW Weekend Update

Postby Jellen » Wed Feb 22, 2012 8:35 am

VeggieSue wrote:I haven't had time to watch the videos yet and it's been years since I read Eat to Live, but I remember Dr. F's plan being a *minimum* of a cup of beans daily, that more is better.

Dr. McD always limited beans to a *maximum* of a cup a day.


Did Dr. Fuhrman really say it's now limited to a half cup a day?



Dr. Fuhrman takes into account the physical condition of an individual. For example, a person with a specific kidney or liver condition may be advised to limit beans to a half cup per day or split cup of beans between two meals. Otherwise, the cup of beans per day is the measure.
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Re: ASW Weekend Update

Postby Chimichanga » Wed Feb 22, 2012 8:46 am

Jellen wrote:
VeggieSue wrote:Dr. Fuhrman takes into account the physical condition of an individual. For example, a person with a specific kidney or liver condition may be advised to limit beans to a half cup per day or split cup of beans between two meals. Otherwise, the cup of beans per day is the measure.



I don't know for sure his position on person with Kidney disease, but to my knowledge he hasn't specifically said to limit beans to 1 cup. Do you have reference?
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Re: ASW Weekend Update

Postby patty » Wed Feb 22, 2012 8:56 am

BarbG wrote:He said he's weighed the same since high school, 148 lbs. I think. Hasn't gone up or down a couple pounds.


I have a feeling Dr. Fuhrman brain's physiology is able to calculate calories to energy. Dr. Fuhrman was a world class ice skating athlete. Doug Lisle shares in _How to Lose Weight Without Losing Your Mind_ about a World War II pilot that had supper excellent vision. He was able to see enemy planes before the other pilots. He used this story to share about the people who are able to eat and not gain weight. Their brain is able to calculate how many calories they need for energy. He shares hey aren't the norm, we are:)

Aloha, patty

I have to add, that I did very well on Dr. Fuhrman's diet... though I found myself transferring my addiction to money.. shopping, preparing, storing, etc. What I like about Dr. McDougall's plan is the satiety of the starch, the transferring of my addiction lightens up, and where in sharing with others I know it too is a possibility for them. Stress of having or not having enough is entangled with the stress hormone cortisol, which won't kill you, but creates a portal for disease.

Jeff Novick's _Calorie Density_ dvd.. makes the template of what to eat really clear as he shares the higher calorie density foods are the ones that are easy to overeat. With the satiety of the starch, the choices of how I eat/feel is up to my body, as I feel it is the best lab there is. The body doesn't lie. Food then becomes like air and water, where CR is a given.

Dr. Lisle's _How to Lose Weight Without Losing Your Mind_ is on Youtube.. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAdqLB6bTuQ The video can also be purchased through the store and is excellent to share, especially with people without a computer. Service is the ultimate end to all hunger and Dr. McDougall is the epitome of service:) where money is not like musical chairs, there is enough for everyone.
Last edited by patty on Wed Feb 22, 2012 9:28 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: ASW Weekend Update

Postby hastings » Wed Feb 22, 2012 9:27 am

greentea wrote:Did Dr Fuhrman say anything about white potatoes in the debate? I have his book "super immunity" and he lists white potatoes as one of the foods you should avoid.


What is his rationale for avoiding white potatoes? Avoidance implies that they actually carry a detrimental impact on health that outweighs their benefits. I'd like to understand what those "dangers" are.
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Re: ASW Weekend Update

Postby LoriLynn » Wed Feb 22, 2012 11:11 am

hastings wrote:
greentea wrote:Did Dr Fuhrman say anything about white potatoes in the debate? I have his book "super immunity" and he lists white potatoes as one of the foods you should avoid.


What is his rationale for avoiding white potatoes? Avoidance implies that they actually carry a detrimental impact on health that outweighs their benefits. I'd like to understand what those "dangers" are.


He showed slides of charts that indicated white potatoes had relatively few phytonutrients compared to other veggies. He is also big on the glycemic index scale in which white potatoes don't fare well either. It wasn't that they were "detrimental". It's just that there are a lot of other superior choices in his opinion.

Does anyone have a link to where I can purchase a dvd of this past weekend's ASW? My husband wants to see it.
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Re: ASW Weekend Update

Postby f1jim » Wed Feb 22, 2012 12:04 pm

No DVD. The only way to see it is to purchase it online here on the website. Purchasing it allows you to view it for 6 months.
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Re: ASW Weekend Update

Postby hopeful_guy » Wed Feb 22, 2012 12:42 pm

Ok I love and respect the work of both DrM and DrF.
A couple of false statements have been said about fuhrman
Way of eating. Its not 1/2 cup beans a day. Beans
Are unlimited. He says limit other starch to 1 cup a day.

So most of your calories wont come from nuts, that would
Be unhealthy. He says 2 ounces max a day of nuts and seeds.
He also says 4 to 6 servings of fruit a day not 3.
He says he would rather have people eat berries than
Grains that sort of thing. His idea is look if we want to be
Healthy and live 90+ years we have to eat more nutrient
Dense foods than rice. its a fair argument. I follow mcdougall
Mostly but respect what fuhrman says. A few days a month
I eat fuhrman way :). I love the change.
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Re: ASW Weekend Update

Postby Katydid » Wed Feb 22, 2012 1:14 pm

The one cup of starch limit is ONLY during the initial six weeks of E2L. This is the E2L equivalent of MWL. After six weeks you can eat as much starch as you like - provided you also eat the one pound of raw veg., one pound of cooked veg, 3-5 fruits, min. of 1 cup of beans and 1-2 oz. of nuts. The idea being you will be too full on fruit and veggies and beans to overeat on starches.

As for white potatoes, I think based on the ASW, other videos, books and my own research, its more matter of philosophy. Dr. McDougall believes that switching to a low-fat starch-based diet will bring your health in line with those raised in traditional cultures - peruvians, rural chinese, rural mexicans, etc. Dr. Fuhrman believes that it may be too late for such moderate changes. Because we haven't been living as rural chinese all our lives, but as SAD Americans, he believes we have already done serious damage to our bodies and require very high nutrient rich foods to repair our cells and DNA.

Most people will eat the same amount of food 'bulk' every day. A typical McDougall meal might be two baked potatoes, salsa, maybe some black beans. Green and Yellow veggies are encouraged, but not really emphasized. Its a starch-based diet. But 25% of your plate as vegetables won't do on the Furhman plan. According to Dr. F, if you fill up on white potatoes (or rice or bread) instead of greens, onions, mushrooms, eggplant, beans, seeds, etc. you aren't getting sufficient antioxidants or phytonutrients to fight that sneaky cancer tumor growing somewhere quietly in your body. But so long as you eat all those high nutrient dense foods you can add in whatever starch you like to fill in the gaps.

As a person who comes from a family with a large amounts of breast cancer (including a sister dead at 51) I respect both Dr. McDougall's and Dr. Fuhrman's views. For me, a very high vegetable diet with moderate amounts of starch suits me very well. Basically E2L without all the damn nuts, or MWL with >50% green and yellow veg.

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