I Think I've Been Brainwashed

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I Think I've Been Brainwashed

Postby Kyon » Thu Jun 02, 2011 10:52 am

I am still working out, in a small group, with a trainer. He is really emphasizing proteins and carb cycling. He suggests that I drink a protein shake pretty much every 3hrs and a couple small meals consisting of 4oz of protein on a salad(or with 1/2 c rice, no added fat or oil). Now this is not working for me because I never do well on just liquids(which is most of the day), I just need to chew on something I guess. But I am now kind of afraid to start back on doing McD again. I did manage to take off some fat, though I weigh the same, and am afraid that I will undo whatever I have accomplished. Irrational fear I suppose but I have it anyways.
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Re: I Think I've Been Brainwashed

Postby Atom » Thu Jun 02, 2011 11:15 am

I hope it's not dairy (whey) protein or any animal protein for that matter that you are taking. It's food for cancer! :eek:
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Re: I Think I've Been Brainwashed

Postby Kyon » Thu Jun 02, 2011 11:24 am

Atom wrote:I hope it's not dairy (whey) protein or any animal protein for that matter that you are taking. It's food for cancer! :eek:


Of course it is animal based. I guess I should know better, I used to even be a vegan.
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Re: I Think I've Been Brainwashed

Postby blondie » Thu Jun 02, 2011 1:23 pm

I don't understand why fitness trainers feel qualified to give nutritional advice. :roll: It's never too late to go back to McDougalling -- I would certainly trust Dr. McDougall's advice more than I would ever trust some guy at the gym.
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Re: I Think I've Been Brainwashed

Postby greentea » Thu Jun 02, 2011 2:45 pm

I work out 3 times a week with a personal trainer. I eat Mcdougall all the time and mostly maximum weight loss as does my partner. We have both put on lots of muscle and have lost weight. We feel great & look great! :D

Don't feel pressured by what your trainer tells you. Do what you feel works best for you.
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Re: I Think I've Been Brainwashed

Postby Melinda » Thu Jun 02, 2011 4:13 pm

All you have to do is refer your trainer to Rip Esselstyn's book (Fire Engine2 Diet) where he talks about his triathlon days as a no added fat vegan athlete. And of course he is still in fabulous shape.
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Re: I Think I've Been Brainwashed

Postby patty » Thu Jun 02, 2011 5:24 pm

If you feel intimidated... just lie by omission and eat McDougall. There are four control dramas: intimidation, integration, aloofness and poor me. Find out what control drama you are matching and when do, you will connect to make a paradigm shift.

The more you defend yourself, the weaker your position becomes. Know you are the teacher/trainer as you have been there and done that and you know what works. Remember the story of the lion raised by sheep, and one day a older lion takes the loin to the river where the loin's reflection appears.

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Re: I Think I've Been Brainwashed

Postby Steelhead » Thu Jun 02, 2011 9:22 pm

patty wrote:If you feel intimidated... just lie by omission and eat McDougall. There are four control dramas: intimidation, integration, aloofness and poor me. Find out what control drama you are matching and when do, you will connect to make a paradigm shift.

The more you defend yourself, the weaker your position becomes. Know you are the teacher/trainer as you have been there and done that and you know what works. Remember the story of the lion raised by sheep, and one day a older lion takes the loin to the river where the loin's reflection appears.

Aloha patty

It's always a problem with physical trainers who just parrot what they have read in a supplement magazine masquerading as a fitness/health magazine.

The short answer is to eat all you want (while getting lots of variety) of any low fat, whole, unrefined plant-based food: starch based works.

The long answer is to educate yourself. An excellent nutrition text book that is balanced with respect to a strict vegetarian diet is the Ninth Edition, of Nutrition for Health, Fitness & Sport. This will explain in detail why a plant based diet is healthy and all the reasons why so little protein is needed even for athletes.

One important idea I learned in Dr. Campbell's plant based nutrition courses that I missed somehow after reading The China Study several times through is that protein powders are problematic regardless of whether they are rice protein, pea protein, hemp protein, soy protein, etc., or whey protein, egg protein, casein protein. Dr. Campbell pointed out that when he observed that plant protein does not cause chronic disease as does animal protein he was referring to the protein found naturally in plants -- not in a protein powder that is plant based but has the same percentages of amino acids as an animal based powder.

Dr. McDougall has amply discussed the sulfur based amino acids and how they are naturally low in plants, but if you look at the protein profile of so-called "plant-based protein powders" typically they match the profile in animal based protein powders: a refined amino acid is an amino acid regardless of its source and it is the same.

When the course covered this topic I was taken aback. I now understood why Dr. McDougall and Dr. Campbell teach that we just eat the natural plants. I once asked Dr. McDougall about my use of nutritional yeast. I was using nutritional yeast as a way to skirt the protein powder issue. Dr. McDougall told me I didn't need it. Well, I wasn't convinced until after I completed the plant based nutrition program and finally understood what the heck was going on.

I've written this before but I think it is worth reminding: when I was a teenager working summers on a farm, we had a plant-strong diet (very little animal protein -- lots and lots of potatoes since the farm was basically a 600 acre potato farm), we worked long and hard; we did not drink protein drinks after two hours of moving sprinkler pipe, or bucking bales of hay, and we gained weight and extreme strength. The only experience I had with whey back then was when I would drive into town as a 14 year old (yes, in Idaho a kid could get a driver's license at 14 to drive during the day) to the local dairy to fill about 10 50 gal. drums on the truck with free whey, which was then fed to the pigs to fatten them up. Things have certainly changed.

Anyway, stop the brainwashing and eat healthfully -- set an example for everyone so they too can start throwing away the protein drinks and start eating a plant-strong diet.
We have to do more than our best; we have to do what is required. Winston Churchill

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Re: I Think I've Been Brainwashed

Postby Adrienne » Thu Jun 02, 2011 9:39 pm

Steelhead:

Do you happen to remember which course and/or which lecture dr Campbell discussed protein powders?

I completed the program almost 2 years ago. I was among the first group to complete all three courses. The subject of protein powders and manipulating plant proteins to resemble animal proteins never came up in any of the lectures (though in a webinar he briefly mentioned something about changing the amino acids in wheat to resemble animal proteins and how that was problematic). I am certain of this because I regularly read over the transcripts. I wonder how the program has changed over the past few years and what else I am missing out on...
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Re: I Think I've Been Brainwashed

Postby rijman » Thu Jun 02, 2011 9:55 pm

Kyon wrote:I am still working out, in a small group, with a trainer. He is really emphasizing proteins and carb cycling. He suggests that I drink a protein shake pretty much every 3hrs and a couple small meals consisting of 4oz of protein on a salad(or with 1/2 c rice, no added fat or oil). Now this is not working for me because I never do well on just liquids(which is most of the day), I just need to chew on something I guess. But I am now kind of afraid to start back on doing McD again. I did manage to take off some fat, though I weigh the same, and am afraid that I will undo whatever I have accomplished. Irrational fear I suppose but I have it anyways.

Rip Esselstyn was a triathlete for many years on a plant strong diet. Carl Lewis reported he had his best athletic results on the McDougall diet. Watch the Forks over Knives movie and that should allay your irrational fears.
I may be naive.
But I still believe the truth will be revealed if enough light is shined on the subject.
Right now we are dealing with massive ignorance.

John McDougall, MD
(McDougall Discussion Board, posted 7/2/13)
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Re: I Think I've Been Brainwashed

Postby Kyon » Fri Jun 03, 2011 3:45 am

I bought basmati brown rice and some salsa yesterday. So happy to be back to having rice and potatoes instead of some unnaturally pink colored liquid. It looked like Pepto, it was that pink!

Today I have rice, pinto beans, and salsa. Also some roasted brussel sprouts and carrots(just pop into oven and sprinkle with garlic salt, toss occasionally as they roast). Such good food. Dinner will have to be quick since I am headed out to see a play.

Thanks for alleviating my fears, I don't know what I had been thinking. I did this before and lost weight, I'll now finish and keep it off.
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Re: I Think I've Been Brainwashed

Postby noelalexis2000 » Fri Jun 03, 2011 6:10 am

Is it good to build so much muscle and if you decide not to build muscle do you turn to flab. I guess my question is does it make a flab problem worse when you quit training? :?:
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Re: I Think I've Been Brainwashed

Postby Steelhead » Fri Jun 03, 2011 6:52 am

Adrienne wrote:Steelhead:

Do you happen to remember which course and/or which lecture dr Campbell discussed protein powders?

I completed the program almost 2 years ago. I was among the first group to complete all three courses. The subject of protein powders and manipulating plant proteins to resemble animal proteins never came up in any of the lectures (though in a webinar he briefly mentioned something about changing the amino acids in wheat to resemble animal proteins and how that was problematic). I am certain of this because I regularly read over the transcripts. I wonder how the program has changed over the past few years and what else I am missing out on...

I think you may be referring to what I was referring to -- the course doesn't make a big deal of this but it does mention it. For example, here is a portion of a transcript from a telephonic conference during the 503 course with the moderator that mentions what I am referring to -- I'll have to review the other materials:

"Yes, regarding complete protein, Dr. Campbell's work (and that of others) has demonstrated that as long as a protein is "incomplete" - low in one or more of the essential amino acids as compared to the 'eater' - it does not typically promote cancer. However, when you "complete" the protein by adding to it the "limiting" amino acid(s) (to create an amino acid profile similar to that of the consumer), it begins to behave like casein: "Wheat protein, unlike casein for example, did not stimulate cancer development but when its limiting amino acid, lysine, was restored, it acted just like casein." (Dr. Campbell)"

"But this is not a problem for plant based diets for 2 reasons: (1) plant based diets based on whole foods, will be about 8-12% protein, not high enough to cause a cancer effect and (2) even if these diets go as high as 14-15% (lots of protein rich plants), we should not expect to see increased cancer because, simultaneously, we are increasing our consumption of antioxidants and complex carbohydrates (e.g., fiber) and other anti-cancer components that counteract any theoretical increase caused by this extra 4-5% protein. The only time when a plant based diet rich in protein might be a problem is when an isolated protein, as with an antioxidant-poor soy product is fed at levels perhaps as high as 18-20% or higher--there actually is evidence for this effect. Protein is increasing without the compensatory antioxidant compounds. (Dr. Campbell)"
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Re: I Think I've Been Brainwashed

Postby Steelhead » Fri Jun 03, 2011 6:56 am

noelalexis2000 wrote:Is it good to build so much muscle and if you decide not to build muscle do you turn to flab. I guess my question is does it make a flab problem worse when you quit training? :?:

If you keep eating as much as you ate while gaining muscle mass, then you will get fat after you stop training. The human body is efficient and if a muscle is not being used it will atrophy, the reduction in mitochondria lowers your metabolic rate, and the body cannibalizes the muscle protein as calories; hence, you really have to cut "weigh" back on what you eat when you stop strength training to avoid piling on the fat. Of course, we should never stop strength training -- we don't need to necessarily get stronger but we should at minimum maintain the muscle we have.
We have to do more than our best; we have to do what is required. Winston Churchill

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Re: I Think I've Been Brainwashed

Postby Adrienne » Fri Jun 03, 2011 9:12 am

Thank you Steelhead.

Yes we were referring to the same thing. I took notes during that webinar but not in extensive detail.

Just to add the subject of protein powders is not mentioned in the China Study so you didnt somehow miss anything.
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