McDougall versus Fuhrman

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McDougall versus Fuhrman

Postby tangelo » Tue Sep 30, 2008 8:54 pm

I'm just wondering if anyone else is following Fuhrman's ETL program along with McDougall. I find that I can do ETL for a few days and start feeling very deprived without some additional grains and starchy vegetables. Also, it seems that the main difference in the two is ETLs focus on lots and lots of green vegetables. Healthwise, is one more beneficial than the other?
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Postby Steve » Wed Oct 01, 2008 7:33 am

Tangelo,

Nothing wrong with Furhman's theory. The big difference is that McDougall is based on following pretty much some very successfully proven real world diets. Or in other words we know a billion chinese can thrive on rice, south american cultures can survive on sweet potatoes, Europeans in the not too distant past survived on Barley and other grains. Not sure who is the example of surving on spinach.
You say it yourself that you can do ESL for a couple of days before feeling deprived.
IMO McDougall is right. However, if you can follow ESL there are great rewards comming. McDougall is proven and does not lead to percieved deprivation, so McDougall is the one to keep. Have fun with your couple of days here and there with ESL, couldn't hurt, I guess.
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Postby tangelo » Wed Oct 01, 2008 8:34 am

Thank you for the links. I'll check them out. I think that your take on the long term is very helpful too.

For the time being, I think I'll add the starches but also try to rev up my green vegetable consumption.
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Postby slugmom » Thu Oct 02, 2008 4:32 pm

geoffreylevens wrote:
Steve wrote:Not sure who is the example of surving on spinach.


I believe that would be Popeye!


LOL!
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Postby Daffodil » Thu Oct 02, 2008 6:08 pm

If Popeye was surviving on super salty canned spinach, I do believe he would have croaked by now.
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Postby Faith in DC » Mon Oct 06, 2008 2:02 pm

no picking on popeye- he's my idle since he eats his spinach. Really he was my favorite carton when small, and I always loved spinach (all kinds). I eat it daily.
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Postby landog » Mon Oct 06, 2008 6:57 pm

Faith in DC wrote:no picking on popeye- he's my idle since he eats his spinach. Really he was my favorite carton when small, and I always loved spinach (all kinds). I eat it daily.

What kind do you eat?

Seriously, until recently I only knew frozen spinach. Now, I've been introduced to "baby spinach leaves" - that is a welcome addition to salads. But, when we steam a whole lot them, they shrink into just a fork-full.

So, how do you love spinach? Please - count the ways!

Thanks,
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spinach

Postby ncyg46 » Mon Oct 06, 2008 7:03 pm

i like the baby spinach leaves in salads...I buy the regular stuff for veggies but an entire bag wilts to dinner serving....

forget it with the csa stuff, at least for now...it is filthy, they give you the entire plant and I have to stand there for an hour making a bag of 'baby spinach" :D was not happy with the last baskets, will drink it all in a smoothie tonite since I'm not the least bit hungry!!! Have leftover leaf lettuce, watermelon and will throw in a few strawberries to get rid of it all....
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Postby Faith in DC » Wed Oct 08, 2008 11:55 am

oh gosh here is a recipe for one way with spinach. It's my recipe too.

Spiced Lentils w/Spinach
1 cup petite lentils, or standard ones but it’ll take longer
2-1/2 c. broth
28 oz can crushed tomatoes
1 clove garlic minced
Small onion, couple carrots, 2 inner stalks celery, all chopped
½ tea. Allspice, cumin, corriander
1/4 tea cinnamon
Salt and Pepper to taste
1/8 tea cayanne and tumeric
Juice of ½ lemon
Pinch of sugar
Small box of chopped spinach, thawed

1. Sauté Onion, garlic, carrots, celery for a few minutes.
2. Throw everything in the crockpot cook low 8 hours, high 4 hours until lentils and carrots are done. Of course, can be simmered on top of stove too. Serve over brown rice

I’ve been enjoying it without the rice too. Really I think I like it better without the rice.

Now, yes, I eat a salad each day, and it usually has spinach along with leaf and romaine.

Frozen spinach, I like it the way it is. There is one brand, called Allen's which has my man Popeye on it. I get it at a market called Harris Teeters. That is the best frozen spinach I've ever had. It's so fresh tasting. Heck I pinch and snack on it. But really I throw it on my taters and under a rice dish. But try that recipe, and don't skip any ingredients. It's not hot.
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Postby Karen in FL » Wed Oct 08, 2008 1:44 pm

Faith - Sounds delish! I'll copy it. Do you happen to have any nutritional info for it?


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Postby starchcurious » Wed Oct 08, 2008 9:12 pm

Lentil and spinach soup/stew is great. :cool:
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Postby Dale Jackson » Thu Oct 09, 2008 7:36 am

I have read all the major low fat vegan diet programs--McDougall, Fuhrman, Barnard & Esselstyn and don't see all that big of difference. While Dr. McDougall says make starch the main thing, Fuhrman says make salad the main thing but neither denies people of either starch or salad. In fact Fuhrman says eat AT LEAST a cup of beans a day while McDougall now says LIMIT beans to only one cup a day, so it doesn't really look like Fuhrman is drastically limiting starches. Both doctors agree that the more green and yellow veggies you eat, the faster you will lose weight. The main difference that I see is that Dr. McDougall doesn't think people will be satisfied with fewer starches. Now Furhman does make allowances for those people who just can't seem to give up meat. (that would be my husband). He allows some chicken and fish. On the other hand, he thinks that those who are really serious about weight reduction and better health should plunge into a vegan diet "feet first." The one low fat guru that is way different is Ornish because he allows for all kinds of fat free dairy products. Even then he like the others believes that fat should be limited to 10% o a person's calories per day or no more than 2 g. per packaged products. Although I haven't heard any of these doctors in person, I have heard that there is some controversy, but I don't know why their followers should be divided into separate camps thwn most of these doctors are on the same page about so many things.
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Postby Faith in DC » Thu Oct 09, 2008 10:49 am

Karen in FL wrote:Faith - Sounds delish! I'll copy it. Do you happen to have any nutritional info for it?


Karen


sorry Karen, no I don't. I kind of made it up when I had the dish at a vegan restuarant outside Baltimore. It was so good I went to work the next day trying to copy it.
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Postby ladynnred1 » Sat Nov 01, 2008 5:35 am

I've tried the Eat to Live site twice but left both times b/c I just felt everything was about charging and being told people didn't get it. While I think a lot of us are incredibly unrealistic about how much exercise we get regularly and about our goals (note I said a lot of us) but Dr. Fuhrman's notes to his board members were exceedingly curt and I had this image of his rushing from one thing to another to increase what he was in revenue.

I think the thread several months ago by Jeff and others about how hard it is to eat adequately to satisfy one without starches was powerful. I lost weight on the salads and know I could always eat more greens but found it a hard way to face the rest of life.

To echo others, thanks to the McDougalls for the free information and support. This board alone is amazing.[/b][/u]
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ditto

Postby ncyg46 » Sat Nov 01, 2008 8:39 am

I completely agree with both posts. I was on the Fuhrman member site for about 9 months....yeah I was 10 lbs lighter, looked anorexic, couldn't store that many fresh veggies or even find them to buy in an rv refrigerator and was extremely testy!
Fuhrman acted like a narcissistic b*****d, was nasty not only to me but in most of his answers to people. I just gave up and said I wan't gonna pay for it anymore!

I thank and appreciate Dr. McDougall for all the wonderful info and this site :D
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