Vegetarian diet 'weakens bones'

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Vegetarian diet 'weakens bones'

Postby vgnwitch » Thu Jul 02, 2009 9:53 am

Thu Jul 2, 6:31 am ET

SYDNEY (AFP) – People who live on vegetarian diets have slightly weaker bones than their meat-eating counterparts, Australian researchers said Thursday.

A joint Australian-Vietnamese study of links between the bones and diet of more than 2,700 people found that vegetarians had bones five percent less dense than meat-eaters, said lead researcher Tuan Nguyen.

The issue was most pronounced in vegans, who excluded all animal products from their diet and whose bones were six percent weaker, Nguyen said.

There was "practically no difference" between the bones of meat-eaters and ovolactovegetarians, who excluded meat and seafood but ate eggs and dairy products, he said.

"The results suggest that vegetarian diets, particularly vegan diets, are associated with lower bone mineral density," Nguyen wrote in the study, which was published Thursday in the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition.

"But the magnitude of the association is clinically insignificant," he added.

Nguyen, who is from Sydney's Garvan Institute for Medical Research and collaborated on the project with the Pham Ngoc Thach University of Medicine in Ho Chi Minh City, said the question of whether the lower density bones translated to increased fracture risk was yet to be answered.

"Given the rising number of vegetarians, roughly five percent (of people) in western countries, and the widespread incidence of osteoporosis, the issue is worth resolving," he said.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20090702/hl ... liavietnam
When you trust your television, what you get is what you got. 'Cause when they own the information, they can bend it all they want. ~ John Mayer
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Postby erin » Thu Jul 02, 2009 10:42 am

the solution is simple. weight-bearing exercise.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7747001

~ erin
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Less dense, not weaker

Postby AnnaS » Thu Jul 02, 2009 11:15 am

Less dense does not equal weaker, necessarily! How about some epidemiology showing fracture rates in Australia vs Vietnam??? Sigh.
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Postby LJ » Thu Jul 02, 2009 11:15 am

erin wrote:the solution is simple. weight-bearing exercise.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7747001

~ erin


You got that right. Also, they fail to mention that meat eaters are heavier, so they're bones get more of work-out just moving their own bodies. I read something to that affect before, wish I could remember where so I could post the link.
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Re: Less dense, not weaker

Postby serenity » Thu Jul 02, 2009 11:46 am

AnnaS wrote:Less dense does not equal weaker, necessarily! How about some epidemiology showing fracture rates in Australia vs Vietnam??? Sigh.


Exactly what I was thinking. In fact, I think there was a recent study that found that though vegan's bones tended to be less dense, they had significantly less fractures.
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Postby HealthFreak » Thu Jul 02, 2009 12:13 pm

Here is the first paragraph from a study in the latest McDougall Newsletter.

A Vegan (No Milk) Diet Is Healthy for Bones

Veganism, bone mineral density, and body composition: a study in Buddhist nuns by L.T. Ho-Pham published in the April 2009 issue of the journal Osteoporosis International found, “…although vegans have much lower intakes of dietary calcium and protein than omnivores, veganism does not have (an) adverse effect on bone mineral density and does not alter body composition.” This study examined 105 postmenopausal Mahayana Buddhist nuns, and compared them to 105 omnivorous women (average age of women in both groups was 62 years-old). The nuns were randomly sampled from monasteries in Ho Chi Minh City, Vietnam; they had been on a vegan diet, on average, for 33 years. The density of the nuns’ lumbar spine and femoral neck (hip) bones were found to be similar to those of the animal-food-eating women (omnivores).
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Jeff has hashed this out before...

Postby f1jim » Thu Jul 02, 2009 12:19 pm

When you look at fracture rates for those not consuming dairy the are either equal or better than dairy consumers. If that were not true most of Asia would be afflicted with crumbling bones!
Most of the time these studies come to us partly or wholly funded by a particular industry. Care to guess which one?

If I never got anything more out of the McDougall program, it's to look at what passes for research out there. It's really PR for the dairy industry, meat industry, egg industry, etc.

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Postby HealthFreak » Thu Jul 02, 2009 3:59 pm

I'm starting to realize exactly what you are talking about. For example look at the beginning of my post about soy (in the lounge) and the end of the post. Just like this post, two "research articles" saying the exact opposite thing. I trust McDougall and PCRM.
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Postby BarbG » Thu Jul 02, 2009 4:30 pm

After I was at McDougall's live-in program I returned home interested in diet, nutrition and health. So I started reading various articles and such. I soon found myself confused from "information" that was all over the map. I had a moment when I thought I should just give up, because how did I know what the truth was. Then I realized how to solve my dilemma. I made the decision that I was going to obtain my diet, nutrition and health information from Dr. McDougall. End of story. I am satisfied with the quality of his research, with the sense his information makes and with his motives. I now notice all the NUTTY diet plans and nutrition/health theories on bookshelves. People who want to sell books can write anything. Literally anything, no matter how radically untrue. I'm sticking with Dr. McDougall.
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Chosing McDougall

Postby langerangersquared » Fri Jul 03, 2009 9:59 am

Hey username, good choice. Just look at the list of references he puts up on his newsletter pieces. He's not out in the ether, but cites published papers for what he says. "good eatin," Don
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Postby Steve » Fri Jul 03, 2009 10:33 am

I guess Dr. McDougall will be answering this silly study. I am sure the Doc will explain that bone mineral density does not equate to healthy strong bones. The Doc may point to the drugs that increase density and result in more fractures. A more dense brittle bone is not the solution. I believe the Doc has pointed out elsewhere that the true measure of bone health is the incidence of hip fracture (largest bone). The BMD is a scam to push pills. The result you want is healthy bones. Sorry for the rant. I will wait on the Doctor's response. I am sure the study is flawed.

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Paid for by Dairy Interests

Postby John McDougall » Fri Jul 03, 2009 11:17 am

This article published ahead of time in the American Journal of Clinical Nutrition was by the same authors as the vegan osteoporosis article I published in my June 2009 newsletter. The article I reported on received little press worldwide and showed results very favorable for a vegan diet and bone health. http://www.drmcdougall.com/misc/2009nl/jun/fav5.htm.

This study showing negative effects of a vegan diet was a meta-analysis and these kinds of studies are notorious for showing bias and are easily manipulated by the choice of studies included or excluded in the analysis. There are many other criticisms that could be directed to this publication but the most important question to ask is why did this article get so much attention and the other one by the same authors published at the same time received almost none?

One fact you should know is the meta-analysis article suggesting vegan diets may be bad for the bones (slightly lower BMD) was funded by a AMBeR alliance incorporated in Malaysia, which owns Amber F&B Nutrition Sdn Bhd, a dairy products producer and wholesaler.

You can write the authors at: [email protected] ask your questions about the studies and why the one paid for by dairy money received so much world attention.

Reference to financial ties: http://www.alacrastore.com/deal-snapsho ... Bhd-462633
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Postby Clary » Fri Jul 03, 2009 11:37 am

username wrote: I'm sticking with Dr. McDougall.

That's my solution, too, username. :nod:

I envy your trip to the live-in program and hope to be able to attend at some time in the future.

Can you share some of your experiences and insights from your stay at the program?
"LIFE always begins again." --Edmond Bordeaux Székely
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me too

Postby ncyg46 » Fri Jul 03, 2009 5:50 pm

and I bounce well...went flying over a 3 foot wall with a barrel cactus in the dark and hit my head. Got up and walked home....I was 5'5" at 18 and 5'5" at 62 so I guess my bones are okay!
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His earlier study suggested just the opposite

Postby alazzia » Sat Jul 04, 2009 6:07 pm

Delurking to post this link to an earlier study by the same guy (same name and institute, at least) in which he found that the bones of vegans and non-vegans had identical density:

Here

Also of interest, one of the founding bodies of the Garvan Institute is CRC for Innovative Dairy Products.

Quote from the earlier study:

“Bone health in vegetarians, particularly vegans, has been a concern for some time, because as a group they tend to have a lower protein and calcium intake than the population at large.”

“In this work we showed that although the vegans studied do indeed have lower protein and calcium intakes, their bone density is virtually identical to that of people who eat a wide variety of foods, including animal protein.”

Edited to add link.
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