Concerned about insulin levels on this way of eating

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Concerned about insulin levels on this way of eating

Postby bounce08 » Thu Sep 17, 2020 6:07 am

I've read lots of articles that say raised insulin levels are linked to inflammation and eventually contribute to various health issues - that the longer our bodies have raised insulin levels, the more inflammation is occurring.

I'm aware that this program/way of eating is heavy on starches which are known for raising insulin levels to high levels fairly consistently - potatoes being a big one but also fruits.

I have two questions relating to the above:

1. Isn't the constant consumption of starches leading to frequently high insulin levels and therefore high inflammation and poor health?

2. I am pre-diabetic. If starches are known for increasing blood sugar levels and insulin, how will that affect people like myself with pre-diabetic blood sugar levels?

3. I've read that Dr McDougall isn't keen on the concept of the Glycemic index/glycemic load and wrote it off in an article as "not yet ready for prime time". Lots of well respected organisations including most country's national health authorities mention GI/GL when giving advice about blood sugar. Has Dr McDougall changed his stance, and if not, why should I view Dr McDougall's dismissal of GI/GL with more credibility than various national health organisations?

Thanks
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Re: Concerned about insulin levels on this way of eating

Postby Lyndzie » Thu Sep 17, 2020 7:58 pm

When I was pregnant I monitored my blood sugar regularly when following this way of eating. The highest it would go is 120. My A1C was 4.7. I do not believe that level is associated with poor health.

Diabetes is not caused by starch. It is the result of an unhealthy diet. If you follow a healthy diet, your body will function as it should. No one got diabetes because of sweet potatoes and broccoli.

I personally have found Dr. McDougall’s reasoning for disregarding the glycemic index reasonable. Most of the guidelines for managing diabetes completely contradict his dietary advice as well. I would give him more credibility because he has the district pleasure of actually reversing diabetes in his patients, instead of just managing it.

It is hard to wade through various different doctors and all the stuff on the internet and figure out what to do. Give it a shot for 3 weeks, no cheating, and see if it works for you. If you are testing your blood sugar, only do so upon waking (fasting). Keep track of it and see where it goes. Good luck!
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Re: Concerned about insulin levels on this way of eating

Postby michaelswarm » Fri Sep 18, 2020 6:05 pm

There are essentially 2 different theories about what causes Diabetes (type 2, specifically the underlying insulin resistance)
1. Fat
2. Sugar

Dr McDougall and others (Dr Barnard, Cyrus Khambatta) show the science is clear that fat, and specifically fat within cells that are not designed to hold fat (Intramyocellular Lipids), those of muscles and liver, is the cause of insulin resistance and diabetes. Eliminate the insulin resistance, and even large amounts of sugar are handled quickly and efficiently without harm.

This way of eating helps the body clear the fat from within those cells by:
1. Eating foods low in fat. Can’t store what you don’t eat.
2. Eating foods high in starch. Even excess starch is difficult to convert into fat and store. High satisfaction.
3. Eating foods moderate to low in calorie density. Reduce overall calories, without hunger.

In animal models insulin resistance is achieved by feeding fat. Research going back to discovery of insulin 1920s-1930s show carbohydrate increases insulin sensitivity, and fat produces insulin resistance.

Dr David Jenkins, inventor of the glycemic index, who himself eats and recommends whole food plant based, was influenced by Dr Denis Burkitt (Dr Fiber), also one of the key influences on Dr McDougall.

bounce08 wrote:1. Isn't the constant consumption of starches leading to frequently high insulin levels and therefore high inflammation and poor health?


Without Intramyocellular Lipids, consumption of starches or sugars leads only to normal insulin levels that are rapidly cleared. The McDougall Program clears intramyocellular lipids and restoring insulin sensitivity, as above.

bounce08 wrote:2. I am pre-diabetic. If starches are known for increasing blood sugar levels and insulin, how will that affect people like myself with pre-diabetic blood sugar levels?


See above.

bounce08 wrote: 3. I've read that Dr McDougall isn't keen on the concept of the Glycemic index/glycemic load and wrote it off in an article as "not yet ready for prime time". Lots of well respected organisations including most country's national health authorities mention GI/GL when giving advice about blood sugar. Has Dr McDougall changed his stance, and if not, why should I view Dr McDougall's dismissal of GI/GL with more credibility than various national health organisations?


Dr McDougall has been consistent for decades. For me, credibility comes from proof of remission or reversal, something the other authorities have consistently failed to show. His practice is backed up by fully referenced scientific sources.

Two reads I have found especially helpful are:

Feb 2004 Newsletter (Type 2 Diabetes: Expected Adaptation to Over-nutrition) Explains purpose of both insulin resistance (avoid becoming too fat) and sweet urine (avoid too much blood sugar).
http://www.nealhendrickson.com/mcdougal ... abetes.htm

Diabetes Reconsidered
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=61302

And of course everything here:
https://www.drmcdougall.com/health/educ ... /diabetes/

By now thousands, maybe tens of thousands (millions?) around the world, have reversed diabetes (and pre-diabetes) following whole food plant based diets. The best way to know is run your own experiment. Fully commit for one month. See for yourself what happens.
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Re: Concerned about insulin levels on this way of eating

Postby KillSwitch » Tue Jan 12, 2021 6:53 pm

michaelswarm wrote:There are essentially 2 different theories about what causes Diabetes (type 2, specifically the underlying insulin resistance)
1. Fat
2. Sugar

Dr McDougall and others (Dr Barnard, Cyrus Khambatta) show the science is clear that fat, and specifically fat within cells that are not designed to hold fat (Intramyocellular Lipids), those of muscles and liver, is the cause of insulin resistance and diabetes. Eliminate the insulin resistance, and even large amounts of sugar are handled quickly and efficiently without harm.

This way of eating helps the body clear the fat from within those cells by:
1. Eating foods low in fat. Can’t store what you don’t eat.
2. Eating foods high in starch. Even excess starch is difficult to convert into fat and store. High satisfaction.
3. Eating foods moderate to low in calorie density. Reduce overall calories, without hunger.

In animal models insulin resistance is achieved by feeding fat. Research going back to discovery of insulin 1920s-1930s show carbohydrate increases insulin sensitivity, and fat produces insulin resistance.

Dr David Jenkins, inventor of the glycemic index, who himself eats and recommends whole food plant based, was influenced by Dr Denis Burkitt (Dr Fiber), also one of the key influences on Dr McDougall.

bounce08 wrote:1. Isn't the constant consumption of starches leading to frequently high insulin levels and therefore high inflammation and poor health?


Without Intramyocellular Lipids, consumption of starches or sugars leads only to normal insulin levels that are rapidly cleared. The McDougall Program clears intramyocellular lipids and restoring insulin sensitivity, as above.

bounce08 wrote:2. I am pre-diabetic. If starches are known for increasing blood sugar levels and insulin, how will that affect people like myself with pre-diabetic blood sugar levels?


See above.

bounce08 wrote: 3. I've read that Dr McDougall isn't keen on the concept of the Glycemic index/glycemic load and wrote it off in an article as "not yet ready for prime time". Lots of well respected organisations including most country's national health authorities mention GI/GL when giving advice about blood sugar. Has Dr McDougall changed his stance, and if not, why should I view Dr McDougall's dismissal of GI/GL with more credibility than various national health organisations?


Dr McDougall has been consistent for decades. For me, credibility comes from proof of remission or reversal, something the other authorities have consistently failed to show. His practice is backed up by fully referenced scientific sources.

Two reads I have found especially helpful are:

Feb 2004 Newsletter (Type 2 Diabetes: Expected Adaptation to Over-nutrition) Explains purpose of both insulin resistance (avoid becoming too fat) and sweet urine (avoid too much blood sugar).
http://www.nealhendrickson.com/mcdougal ... abetes.htm

Diabetes Reconsidered
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=61302

And of course everything here:
https://www.drmcdougall.com/health/educ ... /diabetes/

By now thousands, maybe tens of thousands (millions?) around the world, have reversed diabetes (and pre-diabetes) following whole food plant based diets. The best way to know is run your own experiment. Fully commit for one month. See for yourself what happens.


Great post Michael. If you fully commit for let's say one month and things don't improve or possibly deteriorate, would you then say give it more time? I have always been puzzled by the outliers sometimes. Most ppl get great results but not all ppl it seems. Is it possible that maybe some ppl have just done too much damage from too many years of unhealthy eating and there is this PONR (point of no return). IDK....just asking tho.
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Re: Concerned about insulin levels on this way of eating

Postby Lyndzie » Wed Jan 13, 2021 2:12 pm

The people who I’ve heard of not getting results were most frequently failing to fully understand and implement the recommendations. Like, including nuts, avocados, tofu, etc, or eating vegan food and thinking that was ok on the program. The recommendations for reversing diabetes are different than those for someone training for a marathon, and that can confuse some people.

Another issue is McDougall+, when a person takes the guidelines and adds to it, usually either portion control or glycemic index. Not only have they overly complicated things, they are setting themselves up for failure with all the different rules.
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Re: Concerned about insulin levels on this way of eating

Postby michaelswarm » Fri Jan 15, 2021 9:32 pm

KillSwitch wrote:If you fully commit for let's say one month and things don't improve or possibly deteriorate, would you then say give it more time? I have always been puzzled by the outliers sometimes. Most ppl get great results but not all ppl it seems. Is it possible that maybe some ppl have just done too much damage from too many years of unhealthy eating and there is this PONR (point of no return). IDK....just asking tho.


Dr McDougall has helped thousands of patients through his 10-Day Program immersion. When the food and environment are controlled everyone gets results, and there are no outliers.

Learning yourself, even with documentaries, videos, podcasts and books, still seems to be a hit and miss process. Some people miss the no oil thing. Some eat too many nuts and seeds. Some eat processed packaged vegan foods. And some eat too calorie dense. Even though they swear they are following 100%, or 90% if they are more honest.

But with time and practice all of this can be just a learning experience on the journey to good health, as long as one is open to correcting misunderstandings and sticks with it. It just might take a little longer to understand everything.

There is real variation. People have different gut microbiome. Different past diets and current conditions. Not everything is a diet problem. And there is damage that once done that seems irreversible: type 1 diabetes, advanced solid tumors, Alzheimers.

But in most cases our bodies make great effort to heal if we stop injuring them. General health and quality of life is good for everyone, even when specific conditions can not be helped.

My own journey started whole foods, then vegetarian, then mostly McDougall, then 99% McDougall by buying the McDougall DVDs and attending the 10 Day Program. It happened over 6 month period or longer as I learned more and refined what I was doing at home. I would not limit myself to 1 month, because my own learning curve might be longer, and because this is really a lifetime effort.
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