How important are leafy greens for success??

[Dying2Live]

Hello everyone,

I've read many many posts on here but this is my first writing here with my own question. And my question is, how important are leafy green vegetables to succeed in both the Starch Solution and Maximum weight loss?? Reason being, I absolutely love just about every single fruit and vegetable, but unfortunately many vegetables mostly, do not love me back as much and in such, I end up with terrible digestive and intestinal trouble with digestion, extreme bloating, gas, constipation(no matter the fiber content). Although I've seen many people on here have fabulous success, majority of them are doing so following the maximum weight loss strategies with using most of their plates or bowls filled with veggies, most of them green in nature or from the sulfuric family of veggies, and most of these bother me. I am still having a hard time wrapping my mind around being able to eat as much starch until satisfied without overdoing it and gaining a bunch of weight, despite many on here eating an abundance of potatoes, rice etc and having amazing results.

Some people consider green peas and carrots starchy, while others classify them as veggie servings and not part of the main starch component, so this can get confusing at times i find. So my question is, can someone still restore health, feel great and lose weight eating starch until satisfied with side dishes of things like peas, carrots, green beans, celery, tomatoes(all even combined in a veggie soup at times or eaten separate)?

Or do these things, especially weight loss happen only when incorporating most of your plate or bowl with leafy greens like spinach, swiss chard, kale, broccoli, cauliflower, brussels sprouts, cabbage etc? Is it possible to be just as vibrant and healthy , thriving on starches, carrots, peas, beans, corn, celery, tomatoes etc?

I realize the nutritarian diet and the starch solution or maximum weight loss are somewhat similar with regards to what to avoid, but there's such a huge emphasis on these super foods like the leafy greens and sulfuric family veggies by Joel Fuhrman, compared to hearing Dr. McDougall say to have green and yellow veggies on the side and not too much.

Obviously this is Dr. McDougall's website and forum, but I respect all the plant based doctors opinions and am searching to improve my health for myself and my family, so can anyone offer some information on how important these are for success in health and if so then just how much would be the ideal serving size to have of these green and yellow vegetables on the side?

Thank you very much in advance to first reading this the entire way through and also for taking the time to reply.

[whereamac]

Hi there

I'm new to this forum, so I may not have the best advice... but I came across a post from michaelswarm on this thread: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=61159

He talks about thinking about your gut as a muscle and training it by starting with certain foods - could you do that? Another option might be to follow Dr McDougall's Elimination Diet? I had a severe bout of trapped wind recently when I increased my cruciferous vegetables too fast (it was by mistake). When I went back to making sure I was eating well cooked starches and other vegetables, I felt much better.

Good luck!

[Dying2Live]

Hi there

I'm new to this forum, so I may not have the best advice... but I came across a post from michaelswarm on this thread: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=61159

He talks about thinking about your gut as a muscle and training it by starting with certain foods - could you do that? Another option might be to follow Dr McDougall's Elimination Diet? I had a severe bout of trapped wind recently when I increased my cruciferous vegetables too fast (it was by mistake). When I went back to making sure I was eating well cooked starches and other vegetables, I felt much better.

Good luck!

Thank you very much for your reply. I read the link you provided and it sounds very similar to Dr. McDougall's elimination diet protocol but also similar to the suggestions to help repopulate a healthy microbiome by starting slow with individual foods spaced evenly apart, which is essentially what I've had to do and it's odd to find that something simple like carrots , cooked they constipate me, raw they help keep me regular. The all mighty oatmeal (which I love) constipates me so I chose not to eat it. All Bran cereal however works wonderfully for me, I just pour hot water on it like I would oats. Absolutely love salads, even crave them some days, but I swear I can be still burping up undigested cucumbers days after eating them with or without the peel, I love all crunchy lettuce, but it's one of those veggies that causes me extreme pain and cramps, raw carrots speed things along, tomatoes seem ok, depending on the type, all cruciferous are delicious but near deadly for my intestines, but these are certainly the ones I feel the most guilty if I don't eat them. Winter squash constipate me but zucchini or summer squash don't..it's so odd, sweet potatoes constipate me too and lentils and beans again are hit or miss depending on the type, so I've been a walking experiment most of my life it seems..lol and don't even get me started on the laundry list of other internal organs that either no longer work on their own or are grossly distended and sometimes there are even hormonal surprises that arrive for me even though multiple blood work results show I don't have the hormones to produce those things, and yet surprise my body had another thought I guess
So when it comes to my diet, if there is ANYTHING that I can do to help myself in this area to physically which will help mentally feel well also because then i can just focus on living my life .

I'm grateful to have found this site and I'm hopeful that i did not come upon it by fluke but that I was meant to find it, so that I can not only heal from a lot of this, but can be a witness for someone else who is lost with their pain and physical ailments.
Thank you again for sharing and I hope that your journey here is beyond helpful and you succeed in all that you've set out to accomplish for yourself.

[LuckyMomma]

I eat lots of leafy greens of all types but my adult daughter is not able to. Her stomach would feel unwell and affects her digestion. I think we are just different. She can handle a small amount of delicate greens with maybe 2 leaves of kale at best. She does smoothies. She has been animal free for a while. We use a product by garden of life, raw organic perfect food. It has 70 percent daily vitamin K. Vitamin K is found in dark leafy greens.

[Creaky]

I have issues eating raw vegetables, especially large salads. My digestive tract doesn't enjoy it at all. So I mainly eat cooked vegetables, very well cooked vegetables. I tired eating small amounts to raw vegetables and they do make me hungry more than the well cooked vegetables.

[Dying2Live]

I eat lots of leafy greens of all types but my adult daughter is not able to. Her stomach would feel unwell and affects her digestion. I think we are just different. She can handle a small amount of delicate greens with maybe 2 leaves of kale at best. She does smoothies. She has been animal free for a while. We use a product by garden of life, raw organic perfect food. It has 70 percent daily vitamin K. Vitamin K is found in dark leafy greens.

Thank you LuckyMomma for your reply. I totally agree that we're all different and require personal tweaks to our diets and our lives in order to find and achieve peace within our physical bodies and our mental states. So knowing our bodies is obviously the first step towards achieving perfect health. But you and your daughter are perfect examples especially where you're so closely related and for someone with your blood and dna running through her, your own daughter is finding larger portions of vegetables bothersome to her intestinal health and you yourself could possibly be thriving on them. Hopefully your daughter is listening to her body and not to everyone else who tells her to eat her veggies anyway, that they're so healthy and will be what gives her longevity, so if she suffers with the same mentality as what I struggle with , which essentially feels guilty or as if you're a failure if you're not doing what so many others say is best for you.
it's taken me a very long time and a lot of confidence to listen to my physical body crys and not a laundry list of super foods and must have ingredients. So I hope both you and your daughter find your own personal health recipe and you prosper and grow in perfect healthy gracefully.

[Dying2Live]

I have issues eating raw vegetables, especially large salads. My digestive tract doesn't enjoy it at all. So I mainly eat cooked vegetables, very well cooked vegetables. I tired eating small amounts to raw vegetables and they do make me hungry more than the well cooked vegetables.

Thank you Creaky for your reply. I've read that cooking some vegetables helps our body better break down and absorb the minerals and vitamins . But there are a lot of raw foodists out there who swear by raw fruits and veg are what saved them and what they feel they're best on, so again I guess it comes down to knowing your body, listening to the signs and signals or what your body thrives on and what's causing it harm.

I would eat the largest salad I could make in my largest mixing bowl and it would still leave me wanting something more, no matter how over stuffed my stomach was or looked and a lot of the raw veggies would give me extreme stomach pain. Same thing goes with some cooked veggies as well though. I absolutely love all veggies, so I don't fuss in adding them and eating them all. However, some things no matter how cooked either, cause me stomach pain or they constipate me which then would lead to stomach pain and discomfort also. And these could be super food greens that most people say help their stomach's and help them digest and have easy bowel movements, but for some reason, for me something simple like spinach say, raw kills my stomach and constipates me and cooked very well spinach just sits there and later leads to constipation also. I love the taste and the thoughts of how healthy it's supposed to be for people but how could I reap the benefits if it's causing such distress for me? These are the things i needed to stop worrying about and start to only eat the foods that let me feel at ease, no matter how much I had to and still have to fight my mind in telling me I should be eating all the super foods and in abundance too.

Thank you for sharing your story. I'm happy you've come to see and find what does and doesn't work for you. I wish you all the very best in health and well being for many more days to come.

[michaelswarm]

Leafy greens are just one kind of vegetable among many kinds of vegetables. If you don’t like them, or they don’t like you, then eat something else. Or eat them as you like, in reasonable amounts.

For my family of 5, my weekly shopping lists includes 2 bunches of spinach and a head of lettuce. Divide that by 5 people and 21 meals. The spinach is likely to go into a pasta dish or green curry. The lettuce a couple leafs at a time onto a sandwich or taco.

For more of the nutrition science Jeff Novick’s forum is a gold mine of information.
For example, advanced search for Leafy Greens in just Jeff’s forum has these 2 gems:

Clarification on How Much Greens
viewtopic.php?f=22&t=49524&hilit=leafy+greens

Esselstyn’s Recommendations on Greens [nitrates]
viewtopic.php?f=22&t=59243&hilit=leafy+greens

As always, the starches are the main dish, and your primary energy source. The vegetables are just side dishes, for flavor and variety.

[Dying2Live]

Leafy greens are just one kind of vegetable among many kinds of vegetables. If you don’t like them, or they don’t like you, then eat something else. Or eat them as you like, in reasonable amounts.

For my family of 5, my weekly shopping lists includes 2 bunches of spinach and a head of lettuce. Divide that by 5 people and 21 meals. The spinach is likely to go into a pasta dish or green curry. The lettuce a couple leafs at a time onto a sandwich or taco.

For more of the nutrition science Jeff Novick’s forum is a gold mine of information.
For example, advanced search for Leafy Greens in just Jeff’s forum has these 2 gems:

Clarification on How Much Greens
viewtopic.php?f=22&t=49524&hilit=leafy+greens

Esselstyn’s Recommendations on Greens [nitrates]
viewtopic.php?f=22&t=59243&hilit=leafy+greens

As always, the starches are the main dish, and your primary energy source. The vegetables are just side dishes, for flavor and variety.

Thank you very much again michaelswarm! I know I've thanked you already on my other thread from your other post made to me, but I read that one first before reading this reply to me and I just wanted to say that after reading this one, it has certainly sent me down the rabbit hole and I've certainly been like a mad woman on a mission and I am not going to stop or slow down until I reach my goal of finding the truth and not only helping my health but also to offer my story and back it up with all this knowledge, studies and findings that you all have so kindly directly me too and have been continuously providing a wealth of their own experiences and knowledge. And to you and everyone else here, I'm grateful to you all for taking the time to help someone like me, someone they've never come to meet or know and yet, are above and beyond generous with their time, patience and knowledge to help spread the word and save a life. So again to you all, Thank You and I promise you I will not let all this go to waste! xo

[debknott]

One concept that may help you feel better is to keep in mind that the McDougall way of eating is predominantly starch based. As a result leafy greens are not nearly as important as people outside McDougall circles think them to be. The Starch Solution advocates for loads of starch with the addition of a few other vegetables and a little fruit.

So, if leafy greens don't agree with your digestive system you don't need to worry about it. With your starches eat a few non starchy veggies that your body reacts well to and call it good.

[Dying2Live]

One concept that may help you feel better is to keep in mind that the McDougall way of eating is predominantly starch based. As a result leafy greens are not nearly as important as people outside McDougall circles think them to be. The Starch Solution advocates for loads of starch with the addition of a few other vegetables and a little fruit.

So, if leafy greens don't agree with your digestive system you don't need to worry about it. With your starches eat a few non starchy veggies that your body reacts well to and call it good.

Thank you debknott! Just having that reminder, almost like being given permission to eat way more starch than i was and that I will be ok, even healthier for it, is such a sigh of relief and certainly helps alleviate the stress of trying to always eat the rainbow and put emphasis on low calorie veggies out of fear of possible weight gain. And then there's the pressure from other's that it's proper etiquette to eat your veggies and not over indulge in the more calorie "rich" starches.

I guess unless you're a hormone raging adolescent , people are always going to have an opinion. In which case we need to decide whats really important here and remind ourselves that we're the ones living in this body and our health or lack there of, often dictates just how much "living" our bodies will allow.

Thank you very much again. I wish you all the very best in your health and every additional day your good health allows you to have and enjoy.

[debknott]

Dying2Live, Wow! Thanks for all your kind words.