Dr. McDougall's Online Discussion Board

Hi. After eating (almost entirely) according to the McDougall plan for eight weeks, I've lost more than 15 pounds. Yea!
But I compared some blood chemistry to when I started, and it doesn't seem great.

I'm wondering if anybody else has seen that.

Blood glucose is down a few points, but has always been under 100.
Total cholesterol is down considerably, but due to HDL dropping quite a bit (lowest its ever been), my total/hdl ratio is down and the "CHD risk" is up to 0.5 where it's always been in the "less than 0.5" bucket.
And my triglycerides are about 40% higher. That seems particularly bad.

I'm going to see how it is after another two months.

(Sorry for posting this elsewhere; thanks for moving it.)

I have had this same outcome since transitioning to a plant based diet. Since 2008 my triclycerides have shot up over 100 every time I have blood work done. When I ask why all I get from the doctor is that my cholesterol is great so I shouldn't worry. I have started having other difficulties that make me want to know if this is a factor that I should have pressed further over a decade ago.

Thanks for the reply.

With your situation and doctor conversations going back ten years, that might be understandable. But I think the leading thought nowadays is that the triglycerides are more important than the cholesterol.

I kind of wonder if that's related to the starch. I've increased the vegetables (not that I wasn't eating any before); I'll update when I do my next test.

Five or six weeks later, my blood glucose is down a bit more (90, all time low I think), total cholesterol down more (173 -> 133 -> 116), HDL up a bit so my CHD risk is back below 0.5. Triglycerides are back down to where they were originally (80). The only thing flagged now is my red blood cells are a bit under the threshold.

I'm down around thirty pounds now from when I started. Seems like things are good.

Ah! You hadn’t mentioned your cholesterol numbers before. When you have such amazingly low cholesterol, it only makes sense that your HDL will be low as well. You are doing excellent and having outstanding results. Keep it up!

Hi everyone,
We have been on this diet for about 4 years. But we have been "cheating" once a week with Chinese food or Indian food. My husband also has a glass of red wine with dinner almost every night. So my husband got his Lipid panel results back and so did I . Mine was normal. His was not too good. He has been on a Statin (Lipitor) 10mg 4 times a week because it is in his family. His lipids (VLDL etc. are usually out of range. I have 3 a week (LOL) and eat 2 servings of cashews a day.
Both of us have 1 serving of ground flax seed.

His results on the statin with mostly on the diet are:

Cholesterol: 155 Normal range <199
Triglycerides 189 Normal range <149
HDL: 35 Normal range >40
LDL Calculated: 82 Normal range <99
Triglycerides 189 Normal range <149
Cholesterol/HDL 4.4
Non HDL Cholesterol 120

Mine were:
Cholesterol: 157
HDL: 53
LDL: 90
Triglycerides: 109
Cholesterol Non HDL 104

I know we need to stop going out to eat on Saturday! and probably cut the wine. He is going to run more often. He jogs 3 days a week 30 minutes and now is going to do 7 days a week.

Any thoughts on this?
mkh9

mkh9 wrote:...He has been on a Statin (Lipitor) 10mg 4 times a week because it is in his family...

My first thought? He's not on Statins because it is in his family. He is on Statins because he inherited his family's diet. You've come to the right place. Decline the inheritance as soon as possible and take up this way of eating.

My thoughts: While exercise is good, it's not the exercise, IT'S THE FOOD (Dr. McDougall's website slogan.)

Hi,
Yes part of it is that we have gone off the diet on Saturdays. But minus one meal we are on the McDougall diet the rest of the time. I eat the same diet and mine results look good. I have always had a "A" lipid pattern while he had a "B" or worse. So his cholesterol was 220 now it is 150 on this diet with the 10mg of statin 4 times a week. But up until this year his triglycerides have never been abnormally high. I think it is a lack of exercise, wine and eating out on Saturday.

Having said that I am wondering if we are doing the diet wrong. We eat whole grain pasta on one day and accidentally found out now that It was two servings. We have equal amount of greens and starches. So maybe the starches are too much. We read that for some people that are sensitive the starches can cause high triglycerides. But, we haven't really changed our diet until about a year ago. We fell off the "wagon" by having the bad day out. Plus I eat nuts and he doesn't.

A typical breakfast and lunch for him is:
Coffee with almond milk and Stevia.
Cheerios (on the McDougall list of okay cereals).
Blueberries and a banana.

Lunch
Quinoa
brown rice
salad
fruit.

Dinner varies.
Sunday we have Whole grain pasta casserole with onion, garlic, carrots, yellow squash, mushrooms, tomatoes and veggie broth.
Monday: was Whole grain rice, black beans, 1 portion of wholly guacamole, salsa.
Tuesday: left over cassarole (spelling)? from Sunday.
Wednesday: Black beans and rice with guacamole and salsa
Thursday: Veggie burger with whole grain bun , guacamole, tomato and Broccoli.
Friday: potato and cauliflower curry with just veggie broth and spices. But that is 6 red potations between the two of us.
Saturday: eat out Chinese food or Indian food.

Mine is the same except I have had 1/2 cup of cashews, a protein shake (I know) but my weight lifting trainer keeps bugging me, salad and fruit.

So we are going to cut the meal out. have less carbs and more greens. Do you think that will help? Also, instead of the veggie burger I am making chop suey with brown rice (no oil). I need to wean off the nuts. LOL

mkh9

mkh9 wrote:
A typical breakfast and lunch for him is:
Coffee with almond milk and Stevia.
Cheerios (on the McDougall list of okay cereals).
Blueberries and a banana.

Lunch
Quinoa
brown rice
salad
fruit.

Dinner varies.
Sunday we have Whole grain pasta casserole with onion, garlic, carrots, yellow squash, mushrooms, tomatoes and veggie broth.
Monday: was Whole grain rice, black beans, 1 portion of wholly guacamole, salsa.
Tuesday: left over cassarole (spelling)? from Sunday.
Wednesday: Black beans and rice with guacamole and salsa
Thursday: Veggie burger with whole grain bun , guacamole, tomato and Broccoli.
Friday: potato and cauliflower curry with just veggie broth and spices. But that is 6 red potations between the two of us.
Saturday: eat out Chinese food or Indian food.

It sounds to me like you might need to increase your vegetables substantially. What does "salad" actually mean? Quinoa and rice together? I'd think it should be one or the other, and include some broccoli, beets, green beans, etc.

Hi lunch salad for us means lettuce, tomato, spinach, carrots, beets, 2 types of beans and 1 serving of quinoa.
He also has 1 serving of brown rice with lunch.

We always have at least one veggie for dinner. Generally we have cheerios with ground flax seed for breakfast.
The flax is for omega 3's and we also take DHA from algae. The latter was a recent addition.

mkh9

mkh9 wrote:The flax is for omega 3's and we also take DHA from algae. The latter was a recent addition.
mkh9

Hi mkh9, just wondering, were you both tested and found to have low levels of DHA?

mkh9 wrote:Hi,
Yes part of it is that we have gone off the diet on Saturdays. But minus one meal we are on the McDougall diet the rest of the time. I eat the same diet and mine results look good. I have always had a "A" lipid pattern while he had a "B" or worse. So his cholesterol was 220 now it is 150 on this diet with the 10mg of statin 4 times a week. But up until this year his triglycerides have never been abnormally high. I think it is a lack of exercise, wine and eating out on Saturday.

Having said that I am wondering if we are doing the diet wrong. We eat whole grain pasta on one day and accidentally found out now that It was two servings. We have equal amount of greens and starches. So maybe the starches are too much. We read that for some people that are sensitive the starches can cause high triglycerides. But, we haven't really changed our diet until about a year ago. We fell off the "wagon" by having the bad day out. Plus I eat nuts and he doesn't.

A typical breakfast and lunch for him is:
Coffee with almond milk and Stevia.
Cheerios (on the McDougall list of okay cereals).
Blueberries and a banana.

Lunch
Quinoa
brown rice
salad
fruit.

Dinner varies.
Sunday we have Whole grain pasta casserole with onion, garlic, carrots, yellow squash, mushrooms, tomatoes and veggie broth.
Monday: was Whole grain rice, black beans, 1 portion of wholly guacamole, salsa.
Tuesday: left over cassarole (spelling)? from Sunday.
Wednesday: Black beans and rice with guacamole and salsa
Thursday: Veggie burger with whole grain bun , guacamole, tomato and Broccoli.
Friday: potato and cauliflower curry with just veggie broth and spices. But that is 6 red potations between the two of us.
Saturday: eat out Chinese food or Indian food.

Mine is the same except I have had 1/2 cup of cashews, a protein shake (I know) but my weight lifting trainer keeps bugging me, salad and fruit.

So we are going to cut the meal out. have less carbs and more greens. Do you think that will help? Also, instead of the veggie burger I am making chop suey with brown rice (no oil). I need to wean off the nuts. LOL

mkh9

You seem concerned that on Friday you shared 6 red potatoes. Even if you get the biggest red potatoes possible, they tend not to be so large. I am not a dr. or nutritionist, but I wouldn't worry so much about the potatoes, but would be more concerned about the added fat from the guacamole. Maybe you just happened to have more that week because you had a container opened. But if you regularly consume guacamole/avocado as much or similar to this snapshot of days of meals, I'd be concerned, especially for your husband and his elevated triglycerides.

Have you ever considered oats in place of Cheerios? It would be less processed and save you a lot of sodium.

Just a few thoughts.... By the way, your homemade chop suey sounds delicious! When's dinner?

After watching all the movies, reading over a half dozen books, I am convinced this new lifestyle is the way to go. As a past Health Education teacher, I feel I have been misled by the food industry and I am very motivated to get this right and save the planet in the process. I joined the on-line cooking school, I have been posting my 12 pound weight loss over the past 9 weeks, which I am so excited about and My BMI is finally in the "healthy" range after the past 5 years. I feel awesome I have more energy than I know what to do with. I have converted 6 people to this program and we all have been motivating one another, sending food recipes etc.

But....My world came crashing down yesterday after I got my blood levels back. This is a major set back for me. I'm actually depressed and have no motivation. For me, this was like getting on a scale after running a marathon and you've gained 10 pounds. I still believe in this program. Please help motivate me to keep going with this and I want to continue being the cheerleader for these other 6 individuals. I am so frightened by the direction these number are going. I pulled together the last 9 years of lab results. They have been pretty consistent except for 2018 where my numbers creeped up and I was overweight. My 2018 numbers were cholesterol 226 (I know not horrible but I'm a perfectionist), HDL 59, LDL 147, Triglyercides 100. After 9 weeks on the program, (BTW, I am female 56 years old) my weight is now 151, BMI 24.56, my cholesterol was 225, HDL 44, LDL 159, and Triglerides 109. Most levels got worse, not better. Am I overreacting? I'm most worried about the HDL and the LDL. I have asked to go back in 6 months for a follow up.

Thank you in advance.

When a person loses weight, their blood numbers can take a while to normalize. You are losing a dramatic amount of weight quickly. Give it three months to six months and check again. Congrats on all the other successes!

diastole wrote:After watching all the movies, reading over a half dozen books, I am convinced this new lifestyle is the way to go. As a past Health Education teacher, I feel I have been misled by the food industry and I am very motivated to get this right and save the planet in the process. I joined the on-line cooking school, I have been posting my 12 pound weight loss over the past 9 weeks, which I am so excited about and My BMI is finally in the "healthy" range after the past 5 years. I feel awesome I have more energy than I know what to do with. I have converted 6 people to this program and we all have been motivating one another, sending food recipes etc.

But....My world came crashing down yesterday after I got my blood levels back. This is a major set back for me. I'm actually depressed and have no motivation. For me, this was like getting on a scale after running a marathon and you've gained 10 pounds. I still believe in this program. Please help motivate me to keep going with this and I want to continue being the cheerleader for these other 6 individuals. I am so frightened by the direction these number are going. I pulled together the last 9 years of lab results. They have been pretty consistent except for 2018 where my numbers creeped up and I was overweight. My 2018 numbers were cholesterol 226 (I know not horrible but I'm a perfectionist), HDL 59, LDL 147, Triglyercides 100. After 9 weeks on the program, (BTW, I am female 56 years old) my weight is now 151, BMI 24.56, my cholesterol was 225, HDL 44, LDL 159, and Triglerides 109. Most levels got worse, not better. Am I overreacting? I'm most worried about the HDL and the LDL. I have asked to go back in 6 months for a follow up.

Thank you in advance.

Diastole,

How has your compliance been for the past 9 weeks? Some people go all in, and others take baby steps. Even so, understanding and implementation is not always perfect. Some oil, junk and animal foods might still remain, hide or creep into your routine. The numbers from the 10 day immersion are impressive, but people are also in “food jail,” as the McDougall staff prepares all the meals exactly according to the program, and no slips or cheats. The numbers from the 10 Day Program are half pound of weight loss per day.

McDougall Newsletter Dec 2004
https://www.drmcdougall.com/misc/2004nl/041200pulose.htm

Do you have any blood tests from 2019 or just before your recent 9 weeks? I don’t think you mentioned any, except the 2018 tests. Do you think it possible that some levels were even higher in 2019?

After 9 weeks, you have evidence in weight loss, and assurance you are eating a more health promoting lifestyle. You should be feeling positive self esteem for the effort made, and some confidence from the weight loss. With time and adherence the evidence should continue to accumulate and be ever more visible to yourself and others.

With BMI of 24.56 I assume you still have some way to go toward your ultimate weight goals. When I started my BMI was 25.8, and it dropped to 20.3 within the first 12 months, and remained there ever since. Ideally you want to be in the lower half of the healthy BMI range. (https://www.drmcdougall.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=6916)

Don’t be overly concerned about sub-categories of cholesterol markers. For lots of reading details on cholesterol and measurement, you can do a advanced search on the term “choldesterol” in just Jeff Novick’s forum.

It might also be better for visibility and other comments to start a separate topic thread.

Review of markers:
2018
cholesterol 226

Now (2020)
BMI 24.56 (lost 12 lbs)
cholesterol 225 (9 weeks WFPB)