Q on recommended supplements for PB

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Q on recommended supplements for PB

Postby Raquel1002 » Thu Dec 13, 2018 12:29 pm

Hi all,
My Functional Medicine doc says that I'm getting enough B-12 in my Life Extension, two-per-day multi (with the methyl... ingredient) which totals 300mcg per day, so I'm not supplementing with B-12. My last blood test 09/2018 showed B12 was 991 which is above the range but my doc says those ranges aren't necessarily accurate, though he's fairly certain I don't need to supplement. I don't have any sx's of B-12 deficiency. He's doing more tests cuz the blood work from a few weeks ago showed borderline anemia (though again, no sx's!)

I say 'no symptoms' of anything yet I've been sick with a chronic, low-grade flu-like condition that came on suddenly some 20 years ago, with no known cause or cure. I feel worn out and tired all the time, but have boundless energy swimming, running up stairs, lifting weights. It's a total contradiction and most have concluded it's psychosomatic, this despite I feel as though I've resolved all my emotional burdens from my past! Mystery! Yes I've ruled-out Hypothyroid, Lyme Disease, etc) The best description I can give is pretend you have the flu but without a sore throat, runny nose, or cough or body aches; just that 'yucky' feeling you have in your head when you have the flu, or severe jet lag.

Back to supplements, I've also heard that folks eating PB should take the following supplements daily:
1,000 B-12 (Currently not taking though wonder if I should be)
2,000 D-3 (I'm taking 5,000 + a bit more that's in the two-per-day)
DHA 600 or so and EPA 300 or so, (though I've also heard I should be taking more EPA than DHA so that's another question!)
I think I read somewhere that Jeff recommends 'adequate in Omega 3's and not excessive in Omega 6' which is why I'm not sure if I'm getting too much of either, and/or should switch to taking more EPA than DHA which is what Life Extension recommends. I take Omega Zen from NuTrue cuz I haven't been able to find a vegan DHA/EPA that doesn't have a lot of questionable ingredients. Omega Zen is expensive, but 'clean'. If anyone has found another brand that comes more highly recommended I'd be interested in hearing about it.

I started taking Zinc 50mgs given my blood work showed I was low. I also take Calcium x500/day (I eat a ton of veg!); Magnesium x1000/day; Vit C x1000/day; Vit D3 with Sea Iodine x5,000/day. That's all I take. I eat a ton of veg (more than 3 pounds most days!) and my main sources of protein are beans, tofu, tempeh, bean spagetti from Explore Cuisine, nuts/seeds, veg burgers.

Feedback sorely welcomed!!
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Re: Q on recommended supplements for PB

Postby f00die » Thu Dec 13, 2018 7:40 pm

Raquel1002 wrote:Hi all,
My Functional Medicine doc says that I'm getting enough B-12 in my Life Extension, two-per-day multi (with the methyl... ingredient) which totals 300mcg per day, so I'm not supplementing with B-12. My last blood test 09/2018 showed B12 was 991 which is above the range but my doc says those ranges aren't necessarily accurate, though he's fairly certain I don't need to supplement. I don't have any sx's of B-12 deficiency. He's doing more tests cuz the blood work from a few weeks ago showed borderline anemia (though again, no sx's!)

I say 'no symptoms' of anything yet I've been sick with a chronic, low-grade flu-like condition that came on suddenly some 20 years ago, with no known cause or cure. I feel worn out and tired all the time, but have boundless energy swimming, running up stairs, lifting weights. It's a total contradiction and most have concluded it's psychosomatic, this despite I feel as though I've resolved all my emotional burdens from my past! Mystery! Yes I've ruled-out Hypothyroid, Lyme Disease, etc) The best description I can give is pretend you have the flu but without a sore throat, runny nose, or cough or body aches; just that 'yucky' feeling you have in your head when you have the flu, or severe jet lag.

Back to supplements, I've also heard that folks eating PB should take the following supplements daily:
1,000 B-12 (Currently not taking though wonder if I should be)
2,000 D-3 (I'm taking 5,000 + a bit more that's in the two-per-day)
DHA 600 or so and EPA 300 or so, (though I've also heard I should be taking more EPA than DHA so that's another question!)
I think I read somewhere that Jeff recommends 'adequate in Omega 3's and not excessive in Omega 6' which is why I'm not sure if I'm getting too much of either, and/or should switch to taking more EPA than DHA which is what Life Extension recommends. I take Omega Zen from NuTrue cuz I haven't been able to find a vegan DHA/EPA that doesn't have a lot of questionable ingredients. Omega Zen is expensive, but 'clean'. If anyone has found another brand that comes more highly recommended I'd be interested in hearing about it.

I started taking Zinc 50mgs given my blood work showed I was low. I also take Calcium x500/day (I eat a ton of veg!); Magnesium x1000/day; Vit C x1000/day; Vit D3 with Sea Iodine x5,000/day. That's all I take. I eat a ton of veg (more than 3 pounds most days!) and my main sources of protein are beans, tofu, tempeh, bean spagetti from Explore Cuisine, nuts/seeds, veg burgers.

Feedback sorely welcomed!!

functional medicine
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Functional_medicine
Functional medicine is a form of alternative medicine[1] which proponents say focuses on interactions between the environment and the gastrointestinal, endocrine, and immune systems[2], but opponents have described it as "pseudoscientific silliness"[3] and quackery.[4] Practitioners develop individual treatment plans for people they treat.[2] Functional medicine encompasses a number of unproven and disproven methods and treatments.[5][6]

The discipline of functional medicine is vaguely defined by its proponents.[4] Oncologist David Gorski has written that the vagueness is a deliberate tactic which facilitates the discipline's promotion, but that in general it centers on unnecessary and expensive testing procedures performed in the name of "holistic" health care.[7]

dr mcd (a real regular doctor) says not to take any supplements
except b12 if strictly in the diet for 3+ years
some relevant reading:
https://www.drmcdougall.com/health/educ ... pplements/
good luck
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Re: Q on recommended supplements for PB

Postby Raquel1002 » Wed Dec 19, 2018 11:44 pm

Hi fOOdi~!
I can't even believe what I just read in your post, and when I clicked on the link. I don't have time to read all the links within the article I clicked on, but hopefully will over the holidays. Looks like this is another area I'll be saving a ton of money on.

Do most folks following the McDougall plan also only take B12 supplement? This is astounding to me. Not even the EPA and DHA?
My functional medicine doc also has me on Pregnenolone and DHEA stating my blood work shows both are low.

I look forward to reading the other articles. Thank you!
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Re: Q on recommended supplements for PB

Postby Lyndzie » Fri Dec 21, 2018 2:50 pm

Dr. McDougall recommends B-12. All supplements should be regarded as you would medications, and only taken if there is a medical need and under the supervision of a medical professional.

For example, my iron was low during my last pregnancy. My midwife advised supplementation. I managed to correct the deficiency through diet, but then became too lax and my iron dropped again, so I decided to supplement at the end of my pregnancy. If you have a medical need AND you can’t correct it through lifestyle modifications, then by all means, supplementation is an option.

I think there are some articles about DHA stating what some people call “low” is actually sufficient. More is not necessarily better, you know? You just need enough.
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Re: Q on recommended supplements for PB

Postby viv » Fri Dec 21, 2018 8:44 pm

My labs came back low for B12 and D so in addition to taking B12 I take D now that its winter in the north east. I also take a daily calcium with magnesium as I get feet and leg cramps. Before McDougalling I used to take all sorts of supplements, but now just those three.

My advice is to buy the Starch Solution and follow the McDougall Diet. Its easy, that's all you have to do. As the English will say "don't get your knickers in a twist", just follow the plan. Stick with Dr. McDougall, forget the rest, his advice will give you the best chance of a long and healthy rest of your life.

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Re: Q on recommended supplements for PB

Postby Raquel1002 » Sun Dec 23, 2018 12:05 pm

Lyndzie and Viv - thank you so much!! I too get leg cramps and have found mag supplement helpful. My zinc was 'low' so I'm supplementing with that. I probably don't need a daily multi given I eat a ton of veg and good sources of protein and whole grains and fruits. And I'm noticing nausea since I brought on the DHEA and Pregnenonone. I think I'll stop these. I'm considering ending with my Functional Medicine Doc. It's been so confusing cuz his interpretation of blood work when comes to 'normal range' is not the same as traditional docs, or even endocrinologists. For example, I had 2 opinions from 2 different Endo Docs after my Functional Doc said I had hypothyroid and put me on Naturethroid. Both interpreted many months of blood work as out of range once I went on the Naturthroid, and told me to stop immediately which I did do. Then several months later my functional med doc tested my blood and he said it no longer showed hypothyroid (!) He had no explanation for this which should've been a red flag for me. Needless to say, I've never shown any signs or sx's of Hypothyrod other than low grade flu like sx's I'm still trying to figure out, that weren't resolved on the Naturethroid. I might stay with him just to monitor my hormones since he has me on estrogen and progesterone (bio-compatible) and I'm sold on HRT from what I've read.

Still trying to understand why I'd follow recommendation to supplement with B-12 when both my regular doc and the Functional Doc say blood work shows it's in range.
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Re: Q on recommended supplements for PB

Postby Ltldogg » Sun Dec 23, 2018 12:46 pm

Take B12 so that long-term you are not deficient and have serious problems. Skip other supplements, including Vit D (scam). Here is Dr. McDougall on Vit D:

https://www.drmcdougall.com/2015/03/31/ ... ne-health/
https://www.drmcdougall.com/misc/2007nl/sep/vd.htm
https://www.drmcdougall.com/misc/2010nl/mar/vitd.htm
https://www.drmcdougall.com/health/educ ... uidelines/

Cheers,
Scott
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Re: Q on recommended supplements for PB

Postby Raquel1002 » Sun Dec 30, 2018 2:20 am

Thanks Scott. Are most folks taking the B 12 in the form of the methyl....however it's called?

Also: I finally started reading the articles on supplementation (and look forward to reading the ones on Vit D you posted above; thank you!)

The following was written about Zinc: Zinc and iron supplements may also increase the risk of death from heart disease.5,7

My q: My most recent blood work showed I'm low in Zinc so I'm not taking 50mgs daily at the recommendation of my Functional Medicine doc (whom I'm considering stopping).

I just looked up Zinc on line and here's what I found: The best way to ensure you are getting enough is to eat a varied diet with good sources of zinc, such as meat, seafood, nuts, seeds, legumes and dairy.

I just recently slowed down on the nuts (was eating 1oz raw mixed in the am, and 1oz raw sesame and sunflower with lunch...now I'm just eating 1oz per day, alternating seeds/nuts). And I learned that the zinc from legumes isn't always absorbed well (think it said due to heating). So what to do if I'm not getting sufficient amount of zinc by what I eat, evidenced by blood work? I read to keep beans to no more than 1 cup per day.

Is there one brand of Vit B 12 some prefer over others? A few years ago when I did Medical Medium's plan (Anthony William) I was taking a ton of B 12 and my levels went off the charts! But it was a really good brand and unfortunately I can't recall the company.

Re: Vit D. I'd seen a really interesting documentary on Frontline (PBS) a few years back, all about supplementation, and it cautioned about Vit D supplementation esp in the recommended 5,000/daily. But everyone I talked to said that no, 5,000 was the recommended dose and good for you!! It's remarkable how brainwashed even the most well respected docs are, and alternative docs who most think highly of. I look forward to seeing how much money I spend this coming year as I no longer include supplements in my regimen.
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Re: Q on recommended supplements for PB

Postby Lyndzie » Sun Dec 30, 2018 7:30 am

Hi Raquel. Asked a similar question about zinc recently, which Jeff answered. viewtopic.php?f=22&t=57141&p=574988&#p574988

Anymore, I just search for information on this website. I don’t trust the rest of the internet, and don’t know enough to filter out bad information.
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Re: Q on recommended supplements for PB

Postby Raquel1002 » Sun Dec 30, 2018 10:53 am

Hey Lyndzie,
Thanks for the link. I just read Jeff's response.

He said, "I am still curious as to what test they used, what range they used and what the number was."

I'm looking at my blood work from 12/3/2018:
Number: 57
Range: 60-130 (but my Functional Med Doc said his range is 90-130)
Test: Developed and the performance characteristics determined by Ward Medical Lab, regulated by CLIA but not approved by FDA. William G Finn, MD

Jeff if you read this post, do you have any responses?
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Re: Q on recommended supplements for PB

Postby Lyndzie » Sun Dec 30, 2018 2:16 pm

Raquel, you are super close to the “recommended” range, but if serum zinc does not indicate deficiency, then does it matter?

To quote Jeff from the post linked above: “low serum zinc does not necessarily indicate a dietary deficiency of zinc.”
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Re: Q on recommended supplements for PB

Postby Raquel1002 » Mon Dec 31, 2018 10:39 am

Yes, that's a very good point! And I don't have an answer. Wondering what Jeff has to say, if he reads this.

And interesting is that the Functional Med doc uses very different ranges to interpret blood work, so according to him, my read of 57 is way under his bottom range of 90.

I just looked up signs/sx's of zinc deficiency and have none of them.

I also looked up the sources of zinc and I eat plenty of them: beans (especially garbanzo and kidney), peas (not all the time), oatmeal (every day for b-fast), and nuts including raw cashews (1oz mixed nut daily).

Hmm....I'm starting to think I don't need to supplement with Zinc after all!! (My standard medical doctor didn't say I was deficient, and she looked at the same blood work the FM doc did. This isn't to say she's an expert in nutrition and supplements; not!)

Thanks for the feedback.
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Re: Q on recommended supplements for PB

Postby Raquel1002 » Mon Dec 31, 2018 10:42 am

Also just read:

However, since a decrease in the serum concentration is only detectable after long-term or severe depletion, serum zinc is not a reliable biomarker for zinc status.[1]

Maybe this is why Jeff says the out of range read doesn't necessarily indicate deficiency.
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