Anyone with Ankylosing Spondylitis on the program.

[exercise_guru]

I posted here because I am transitioning my entire family to the Mcdougal Starch Solution. For myself I had been off of dairy for years and years. Recently I made the switch to no oil and whole grains, legumes,starchy vegetables and the good vegetables and fruit. I feel great after 6-8 weeks of transitioning. I can tell my gut is better and I have lost a bit of weight.

My husband has Ankylosing Spondylitis. I emailed and Dr. Lim responded that there were many patients using the Mcdougal program with Akylosing Spondylitis.

I would like to share my email and welcome any feedback or advice from you awesome people. Tips on what is working for you and I would welcome any mentorship.
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I am actively converting my family to the starch solution eating program. My husband has anklyosing spondylitis and there is some controversy of the consumption of starch specifically ( due to Klebsiella pneumoniae) and Gluten in general. I watched and read all of your books
presentations( via youtube) but could find no information on how to modify a whole foods plant based Vegan
diet for those with this specific Autoimmune disease ( specifically ankylosing Spondylitis) . My goal is to improve
everyone's health by introducing the foods in a way that will benefit my husband but also improve the overall health of myself and my children.

I would appreciate any suggestions you might have for
resources on how to better tailor the food in our home to most benefit my husband's condition. I would feel terrible if I unknowingly pushed grains and starches as well as gluten as a strong part of our diet unwittingly triggering his autoimmune condition. Especially if there are just a few foods I could leave out initially ( Grains seeds gluten
free pulses whatever) that would give him a better outcome.

As background information I have a strong grounding in quality Vegan nutrition myself but have not had my family take the leap completely.
They will eat what I make and so in the past we have consumed a high amount of vegetables and whole grains while minimizing meat, dairy and eggs. My husband(42 Mr. Phd. in analytical Chemistry) eats the spinach
and sprouts and does not consume processed food but does eat meat dairy and eggs as well as gluten. He tracks his fat intake to keep it below 30% and only allows himself 1 starch a day. He is on Naproxen twice daily and Humera or he would not be able to work. I am helplessly on the sideline watching his health continue to deteriorate. He would make lifestyle changes if there were clear scientific reasons and if the food tasted good. I have committed to be his private Mcdougall chef to help him but I am not clear how to move forward. I am more than willing to take one of your courses or to pay for a consult if you can be of any help but as of now I am meeting major resistance that starch is not going to injure him. Maybe my husband would come to the 10 day weekend but the literature on Ankylosing spondylitis has terrified him of trying a starch based diet. I would need some case studies or some information to convince him to try it. Do you have any literature or information that would be of help. I searched the website but cound not find Ankylosing spondylitis patients who might be willing to share their success with us? You should have seen the look on my husbands face at the idea of eating "starch" for fear it would fuse his spine.

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[Lyndzie]

Scott (Ltldogg) is very active on the boards. If you type in “Ankylosing spondylitis” in the search box at the top right of the page you’ll find more information as well. Here is one example: viewtopic.php?f=7&t=49175&p=589726&hilit=Ankylosing#p505691

[hoob]

I have AS and chose this program over the no starch diet pushed on AS specific forums. Is your husband aware that both approaches are anti-dairy?

Feel free to PM me if you want specifics but this program has given me a far better quality of life than before. My only tweak to McDougalling is avoiding gluten grains as I suffered prior to this diet, like most with AS, with accompanying IBS issues.

[exercise_guru]

I really appreciate the outreach. I watched a video from Scott (Ltldogg) It really inspired me to try and slowly persuade my husband to be more open to a starch based diet. I am not yet able to pm but I will as soon as the system allows me to.
Ankylosing is a very very difficult disease to be diagnosed with . I have read a lot of crazy theories and watched some whacko youtube videos. Its unfortunate because many many people need guidance with good nutrition.

I hope I am not being a bother and I too hope its ok to post such a long message. Thank you to anyone who will take the time to read this.

I will post about my personal story somewhere else but I hope to write here atleast once a week on the efforts I am making and how our food is evolving. I have a difficult time with many in the whole foods movement because in my case and my husbands we do not eat any processed food and haven't for 20 years. There is a curse and blessing in my husband having had such a "good" diet. He eats one serving of meat a day, no eggs other than in muffins. A huge salad with no oil for lunch and doesn't drink milk just sprinkles a bit of cheese here or there or has an occasional grilled cheese sandwich. His AS is really severe he did not realize he had it for 3 years. I only discovered it when I found he was going through a huge bottle of ibprophen in like 2 months. I confronted him and made an appointment to a spine specialist who immediately sent him to a rheumatoidologist. This was a little over 4 years ago and he has tried planning his food and doing all that he can on his own. I was diagnosed with Breast Cancer 8 months later. If I could turn back time I would have moved us all immediately to Mcdougal but cancer treatment is very consuming and we were eating a low fat reasonable diet.

My husbands daily menu is as follows. He does not drink milk like some people do. He also doesn't care for fast food. He never has. He was raised in a family with a big garden and his mom made everything from scratch. He does like muffins and such with eggs and oil in them but I think we could transition them from fat. I have seen him eat eggs in a waffle or pancake but no one in my house cooks eggs and eats them.Its just not our thing.He really likes that kind of stuff. I could make it without oil and eggs but gluten free would be a very very big challenge. Don't get me wrong I have cooked gluten free in the past. To be honest if I had to choose between a gluten free muffin or no muffin I just skip the muffin. This would not be the case for DH.

Breakfast
Black drip filtered coffee light roast.
overnight oatmeal with soymilk ( no oil) its actually with some oat bran and gluten free oats. I do a different fruit on top daily. I also do send him out the door with an apple or some other fruit.

Morning snack
At work he takes 1 sprouted wheat (store bought bread) almond/PB and jam sandwich ( this is my husbands ONLY guilty pleasure and there is no way I can get him to go gluten free unless I find an amazing way to make a PB&J gluten free.

Lunch
Giant salad no oil with some cranberries and sunflower nuts sprinkled on it. There is a very very good salad bar at his work that he can make a giant salad for 2 dollars and so he maxes it out. This has been that way for years. I never suggested it. He adds spinach and everything you can imagine. I have seen pictures it is definitely Mcdougal approved.

Dinner
He eats what I make because I work from home so I am transitioning towards a SOS high vitamin Mcdougal meal and just placing a bowl of shredded meat and shredded cheese on the side . I only do this because I have two picky picky children who are not used to eating combination food. I have a son who hates potatoes, rice and puts parmesan on all noodles. My husband would not let me take them completely Vegan at this time and the push back from them would be extreme. My strategy is too just slowly crowd this out of their diet with legumes, starch. I would have to find an oil free Tortilla because my kiddos eat a ton of flour tortillas.

the upside is everyone in my family loves Broccoli sprouts and salad. Shockingly none of them eat oil on it. I put ranch on the table but it doesn't even get opened. My son likes it on a wrap sometimes.


Ok I post this for those of you with AS because truly I will take any suggestions, criticism etc but really I am a problem solver. I have read everything from Mcdougal, I have watched everything from Dr. Gregger.

I made the transition to Mcdougal 8 weeks ago and before I was eating 1 serving of meat a day and had already been eating whole grains and beans for about 6 months. I am also familiar with Victer Longo as I fasted 5 days with a water fast during all 6 of my Chemo sessions.

My husband believes that Beans and grains do not bother his digestion. He gets some indigestion and has had a lot of dental infections in the past two years. He would be a good candidate for True North Fasting or the Longo Fasting Kit because as of right now he has so much pain that he can not function without Napraxon and Humera. I think the pain from the AS makes it difficult to identify Trigger issues as everything hurts all the time.

Please share what you think and give me some suggestions to try for this next week. On my own I could get him to try a 100% Mcdougal food plan as its only dinner that he would be getting meat in any way.


If anyone will eventually pm me good youtube videos or sites for AS I would appreciate it because everything I have read thus far is pretty out there and crazy. The whole foods community is unsympathetic. The don't seem to understand what an insidious form of inflammatory disease this is. It doesn't seem to respond to a Mcdougal starch free diet within 10 days. I mean my husband would do anything for 30 days if he could notice significant improvement then he might stay with it if he felt he was making progress.

Did you ever have a day where your pain was cut in half from the mdougal eating plan. What I would very much like to do is over the course of 3 months lower his inflamation enough that he would like to try fasting for a few days. What do you think? My dream would be to get him off Humera because it scares me.

[hoob]

I see your long post and raise you a longer one.

I feel for your husband, I really do. He is lucky though to have a good wife who looks out for him though, as am I.

With that said, if I was new to this and looking to get started I would do the Longo 1 week fast for the first week and the McDougall plan immediately following with all the foods I am comfortable with. Fasting can usually stop a flare in its tracks and seems to reboot things.

FYI, all the AS related forums are 95% anti-starch with an emphasis on paleo or keto type diets. A lot of those people swear by it too, but it never seemed like a sensible way of eating (for me anyway) to restore gut health, which I believe to be the root cause of AS. Speaking of gut health, the NSAIDs and coffee will be a constant hindrance to healing your husband’s gut. For now, I’d be more interested in weening him off the nsaids more so than the Humira. Other things I’d be wary of are white flour and refined sugars which may or may not be in his muffins. All the other stuff will get cleaned up if he believes the McDougall way is for him and he follows the plan.

From my own experience with adopting the McDougall approach, relief comes quickly. Flare pain abates, stiffness is relieved, and sleep is restored. Good days outnumber the bad ones and the bad ones are a shell of their former selves. The key is never forgetting and getting complacent with diet.

It’s not all roses for me as AS did a pretty good number on me before I was diagnosed. Sometimes I can’t tell if I am experiencing flare pains or war wound damage pain. In those times I’ll take an Enbrel shot and things clear up again. It equals to about 4-6 shots a year. I’d rather boast I never take anything, but it’s much better than the prescribed 52. It might be a way your husband could use Humira in time.

Good luck. I hope he gives this a shot. Maybe watch Forks Over Knives with him too as a pep rally.

[exercise_guru]

Thank you very much for this post I asked my husband to read it because it's difficult for him to find others who are intelligently trying to manage this disease. He found your Insight very helpful and also I think it helped him to feel that I really am sympathetic about this condition and trying to help him.

One comment he made that I'm curious what your thoughts are is the Naproxen. He mentioned that the only study that has been shown to slow down AS are NSAIDS. he also thought The fasting idea was very interesting and worth considering. I think my strategy is just to find a gluten free bread recipe. then my plan is to just keep moving everyone in that direction of gluten-free McDougall and hope that he sees improvements. Dan has his mind opens maybe he will consider doing the longo fast.

I am curious about a few ingredients I did want to ask your opinion on. I am not sure if you are familiar with doctor Greger? He had a post on nutritional yeast and AS. I actually really like to use nutritional yeast in recipes but because of that post I decided not to anymore. Have you had any experience with that ingredient?

the other question I had is regarding just fat in general like nuts and avocados. I know Dr McDougall is not a fan if you're trying to lose weight but do these fat seem to aggravate your AS? have you ever been able to trace down any trigger foods or did you just choose to avoid gluten because of the potential challenge of it.

I personally object to the NO starch diet because it seems like it would be incredibly inflammatory.

The hardest part of converting my family to McDougal is that I enjoy spicy creative piles of vegetables on some kind of grain or Bean. It doesn't look appetizing to everyone else in my family.

are there just any foods that you and your wife make that you really enjoy maybe I could start there.

[Lyndzie]

Here is some great info on easy foods and meals from Jeff: https://www.drmcdougall.com/pdf/Advance ... t_3-13.pdf

[Kaye]

You might find this interesting - its a clip from a lecture at a Plant Based Health Professionals UK conference. The GP is giving a talk about preventing heart disease but talks about his own experience of AS from 1:39 to 5:40 on the video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IaXsMLWkkmU

[hoob]

exercise_guru,,

Even if the NSAIDs slow down AS pain or ease a flare, regular use will keep the gut in an unhealthy state and keep the AS around. The best defense against inflammation is to not eat foods that are inflammatory. That is what is so nice about McDougalling.

I have never had issues with avocados or nuts and I eat them all the time. I also still use nutritional yeast in recipes that call for it, but it isn't very frequent.

Dr. Greger is not among my fave of plant based doctors. He often gets random plant based items in his crosshairs, like nutritional yeast, and will nit pick it to death until you're overthinking the way of eating that he tried to sell you on in the first place. My wife likes him though.

[viv]

Everything you need is in the book the Starch Solution. Don't overthink it, just open the book and follow the diet. Keep it simple, every meal eat starch with the addition of fruits and vegetables. No animal products, no oil. That's it. A single meal of animal products triggers inflammation, once they are eliminated the healing can begin.

Good luck!
Viv

[exercise_guru]

I appreciate the posting. Kaye that was very very helpful I am trying to find more and more small clips and videos to better understand how to manage this disease.

Liv you are right if you can eat very basic food and have very simple tastes, the starch solution does it all. I have a very easy time following the Mcdougal program for myself. Its converting other people( spouse with AS and kids) that is tough. We also have a complicated health situation in our house( not just with my husband but with myself and my kiddos). I am convinced if I can just keep it slow and steady over the next year everyone will come around and their health will improve as well. I switched over with minimal bumps but pulling everyone along is gong to take some time. Also I have my own food sensitivities I don't eat dairy , soy , eat gluten maybe once a week because I hate pretty much everything gluten is in and don't crave it. My goal is to find 7 recipes we can all eat and rotate them so we can learn to like and eat more simple food. The worst part is that when I cooked for the last 14 years I just cooked Whole30 which is meat and lots of vegetables with a bit of starch . my kids have never seen things mixed together because I didn't make casseroles and combination foods. Now they are freaking out with some of those recipes and they have their own food biases for example my son( eats 10 servings of veggies and fruits a day but has decided to hate potatoes and rice. While my daughter loves rice and potatoes but isn't a fan when I add veggies to them. They will get there because I am tenacious and I can outlast their little food spats.

The challenge is my husband. He is frozen in a state of fear with this AS.
Ankylosing spondylitis has an entire army of people who hate starch. they are sure it is evil so I have to somehow persuade my husband that it is not going to fuse his spine. My strategy is to just start making the mcdougal foods. Let my husband slowly open his mind as he sees my results and hopefully his own health improves. That is why I am trying to make the foods healthy without trigger foods that might aggrevate him. If he feels worse ( because of the yeast or gluten) he might blame it and put up a wall. We love squash so I am planning on making that the center of a lot of meals.

I get the analogy that Dr. Mcdougal has about just taking the faucet off the well and ending the cholorea epidemic and yes this will improve my childrens health and my own. Unfortunately with AS I suspect Gluten and likely Yeast are also a trigger. My husband comes from a family who 3 of 6 kids have AS and his mom has severe ulcerated colitis. She grew up downwind of the nuclear testing and so its likely the GENES are not great. I agree with Dr. Campbell that GENES load the gun but diet/stress pulls the trigger. Even Vegans get cancer and disease I do not believe that the Mcdougal diet will cure AS but if it can help my husband have a better quality of life I am all for it. Sometimes AS hits people harder even with a reasonably good diet. In a person with better genetics my husbands family would probably be disease free. Guys they did not eat the SAD food growing up. It was a lot of starch and vegetables with a small amount of meat NO DAIRY and eggs only in whole wheat muffins and waffles. They had a half acre garden and more berries than you can imagine. Three freezers full of good stuff and canned everything else. It really turns my husband off of the whole foods movement because too much blame is put on the extreme eaters and that eating poorly caused their disease. My husband just can't relate to that.

So I deeply appreciate you guys and gals allowing me to pick your brain about ways to solve these issues and allay his fears.


hoob
I get what you are saying about Greger. I personally love the guy because I have a scientific medical viewpoint but I get that he can really annoy others with his laser like focus on specific foods. Dr. Mcdougal has always said KISS ( keep it simple) Its the food! He is right in encouraging people to just bake a potato.

These are the two videos If you can watch them sometime I would be forever grateful to hear your take on this yeast thing. I am also working on the gluten thing because I would like to see my husband feel better. This disease has wrecked his health. It has aged him to an 80 year old man and he has lost so much of his vibrancy and sense of humor. He tries to stay active and positive for our family but I can see that it is just weighing on him.

Dietary Cure for Hidradenitis Suppurativa ( they talk about yeast and AS in that one)https://nutritionfacts.org/video/dietary-cure-for-hidradenitis-suppurativa/
and Does Nutritional Yeast Trigger Crohn’s Disease?( Chrons is in the same pathway as AS and given his families problems I would like to use NS in gravies but I don't want to kill the guy) https://nutritionfacts.org/video/does-nutritional-yeast-trigger-crohns-disease/


I ask my husband if he has ever noticed a flare up or trigger. His responce was " I certainly have some days that are way worse but I can't link that to what I am eating its more based on my stress level. " He doesn't believe how he feels is a good indicator of whether his spine is fusing so I think he is logically determined that the NSAIDS are preventing the fusing of his spine. Maybe it will take awhile for his mind to open. Since I have make 100% of what he eats almost its fairy easy for me to shift bad foods out and good foods in. It sounds like it is worth keeping an eye on Gluten and maybe yeast. Anything else that seems to be an AS trigger?

[hoob]

I tried to answer you as succinctly as possible, but the words kept piling up.

First, I watched the videos. I agree with the info too. It was good stuff. As an aside, Dr. McDougall attributes dairy as a main catalyst for AS which the videos also mentioned. I've also read where he had mentioned there might be something to gluten and autoimmune issues.

So just follow the starch solution sans gluten grains/breads.

I avoid gluten grains, but I had severe IBS issues as well before I started eating this way. Since I rarely if ever eat bread or baked goods I manage to avoid yeast as well. Fruit is great as I've always had a sweet tooth but I abstain from processed sugars too, like vegan desserts, unless they come out of a cookbook like Straight Up Foods which uses dates and oat flour. (also a great cornbread recipe in here) Sometimes talked about on these forums that I would stay away from is liquor. I did have had one flare up about 2 1/2 months into the starch solution. I'd be guessing as to why I had a flare, but I will confess I wasn't being 100% compliant about the oils. I also quit my coffee habit at this time as well. So I guess i'd say definitely oil is a trigger and coffee is a leaky gut aggravator so I avoid that too. Basically, like viv said, just follow the starch solution plan to a fault and let the food do the rest.

As for the NSAIDs, I'm 47 now and was diagnosed late when I was 45. I started the starch solution shortly after the diagnosis, but prior to that I popped NSAIDS daily for years and my SI joints are fused, my thoracic region is fused, and my neck is partially fused. NSAIDs did not prevent anything fusing for me. I couldn't even tell you when the fusion took place it was all so gradual. I believe if I had been diagnosed sooner and started the program sooner I could have avoided the damage.

When you said "This disease has wrecked his health. It has aged him to an 80 year old man and he has lost so much of his vibrancy and sense of humor. He tries to stay active and positive for our family but I can see that it is just weighing on him" I get it. When AS is on you it is the most grim thing I have ever experienced. I'm telling you though, the starch solution changed that for me. Even though I now have some mobility issues, I feel vibrant and healthy inside and am in waay better shape than my coworkers and family and friends.

Other advice: I hope he works out and keeps everything moving. Stability balls are great. Elliptical machines for the hips. Weights, restorative yoga, pilates, hospital gyms that also have therapy pools, whatever. Find something but keep moving. More importantly, it's the food. Take the plunge already. Oh, and recipes will work themselves out after the taste buds recalibrate.

[KaylynBartlett]

I have spondyloarthritis. I was diagnosed in April after pain for several months. My joints are almost completely normal now, before adopting a WFPB diet I couldn't bare weight on either foot and I couldn't lift my shoulders, or use my left hand from really bad swelling in my middle finger. And sleeping through the night...forget about it! Oddly enough I was WFPB for around 2 years for GI problems until I got married and wanted to be normal. October 2017 I started eating meat and dairy again, and oil and sugar- not in high amounts, but more than I did the previous two years. Within a month the arthritis started and grew until I was about to go to the ER from pain. I wanted to die from the pain. I prayed to God every night He would let me pass in my sleep so I didn't have to deal with the pain anymore. I refused to take NSAIDS because I knew they were bad for my gut, so I just worked through the pain. I cut down my hours at work, went through many tests and the doc diagnosed me with spondyloarthritis.
Right after the diagnoses I went high raw vegan for 3 months- not fully but high raw, most days raw, adding fats and sweet potatoes flared my joints. After 3 months of that detoxing I was able to add more foods in. I am now eating mostly starch based but some flax and chia or raw almond butter 1-3 times a week doesn't' seem to make things worse. I did reintroduce coffee 2 months ago after quitting it in January before my diagnosis but after reading the Paddison Program- a man reversed his RA with this style of eating. Anyway I cut the coffee again and stick to green tea because I had a a lot of tenderness in my feet and small aches I figured I didn't need to worry about- It hasn't been a full week coffee free yet but my ankle swelling and stiffness is diminished, I also cut my fat down but did just have some almond butter because I tend to feel extremely exhausted with no overt fats. Also I'm a female and lost my period for 6 months when eating no overt fats to heal up my body from arthritis. Now I need to include it but not every day and not in the amounts I used to have it.
I jog about 4 miles a week, I work on my feet all day as a personal trainer, and I don't take any meds for my arthritis, never have. I hope this helps your husband, I know I wouldn't be as happy as I am, working at the job I love, or the best wife I can be for my husband if I wasn't eating a starch based diet.
My breakfast is a green smoothie of spinach, mango, ginger, and turmeric with water.
My second breakfast is oatmeal with blueberries and cinnamon.
My lunch is usually sweet potatoes and broccoli.
My dinner is usually sweet potatoes and broccoli again or some sort of veggie soup with maybe some lentils.