Blood sugar will not go down

[On The Road]

This is getting pretty frustrating,

6'6" 350lbs,57 years old

A1c 10, daily 225-300

Been abusing my body all of my life but have had moments of really working on things.

For the last month I have been what I call a weekday vegetarian and it does continue on the weekends as much as possible.

On the standard meds, metformin, glipizide, ect

Diet,

Breakfast: Oatmeal, raspberries, some almond milk and sliced almonds
Lunch: My big meal, two burritos that are a mix of red beans, onion, jalapenos, tomatoes, cabbage, and some cheese.
Dinner: lately, mostly just veggies, carrots, green peas, cauliflower, broccoli.


Weekends I try to stick to this but family pressures to go out hurt that.

Have done the starches before and honestly had better success, but docs are really giving me a bad time about that. Figured I would try this for a month or two and see what happens. So far not much is.

Walking 3-4 miles a week, taking the stairs whenever possible and feel I am getting stronger, but no real weight loss or drop in BS.

Feeling a little lost

Thanks
John

[landog]

Check this out:
https://www.drmcdougall.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=9455
Scroll down to "And here are the recommendations.."

I think that you might see progress if you go all in and follow these recommendations to the letter for a few months.

Notice the recommendation to follow the MWL plan.
Here are some guidelines: https://www.drmcdougall.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=26620

Go all in - weekdays only aren't going to cut it.
Stay out of restaurants!

[LuckyMomma]

If I am watching my sugar, it is helpful to test my blood sugar after each meal just to learn what my body can handle. For some people starchy food like oatmeal and tortilla can raises their blood sugar, so they gotta watch how much they eat. Eating more greens vegetables and limiting or avoiding sweet root vegetables like carrots would be helpful. Getting some exercise after a meal would help. It doesn’t have to be a workout, just some movement, a enjoyable walk. Later you can add more exercise if you feel like. Testing my blood sugar after i ate out helped me learn what I can get away with. If I’m gonna eat something starchy, it is best for me to eat it with something with lots of fiber like a salad. So instead of a burrito, I’d probably have a mexibowl salad with no cheese. I always have Persian cucumbers in my house. I can eat a lot of those when I am hungry and still lose weight. You may not notice your sugar coming down right away then all the sudden it drops.

[Sonia Raga]

This is getting pretty frustrating,

6'6" 350lbs,57 years old

A1c 10, daily 225-300

Been abusing my body all of my life but have had moments of really working on things.

For the last month I have been what I call a weekday vegetarian and it does continue on the weekends as much as possible.

On the standard meds, metformin, glipizide, ect

Diet,

Breakfast: Oatmeal, raspberries, some almond milk and sliced almonds
Lunch: My big meal, two burritos that are a mix of red beans, onion, jalapenos, tomatoes, cabbage, and some cheese.
Dinner: lately, mostly just veggies, carrots, green peas, cauliflower, broccoli.


Weekends I try to stick to this but family pressures to go out hurt that.

Have done the starches before and honestly had better success, but docs are really giving me a bad time about that. Figured I would try this for a month or two and see what happens. So far not much is.

Walking 3-4 miles a week, taking the stairs whenever possible and feel I am getting stronger, but no real weight loss or drop in BS.

Feeling a little lost

Thanks
John

Drop the almond milk, the almonds, the cheese and the tortillas. Stick to the Maximum Weightloss Guidelines and you might see changes pretty fast

[Dougalling]

Hi
You need to take care of yourself first in order to be able to take care of others.
Family pressure to eat out on weekends. Let them go without you. Or eat before you go and order a green salad just to have something in front of you and enjoy the company. If they say anything, let them know that you are under strict doctors orders on what you can and cannot eat. If they get angry at your for not eating, tell them you are there to enjoy their company. Ask them nicely if they would rather you stay home next time. Let them decide if they want your company or not.
You need to eat WFPB no SOS 7 days a week .
Exercise will help get your sugars down. Check out exercise videos on youtube .
Good luck.

[gracezw]

If you haven't watched ithrive, I highly recommend it. I watched the series.

https://go.ithriveseries.com/

The host, Jon McMahon, has filmed his own diabetes symptoms. He interviewed a number of regular whole foods plant doctors in the film too. The whole film is highly motivating.

Staying motivated is as important as doing all the right things.

[Atheria]

I've been eating a lower carb, much higher fat version of vegan for a while, and as of yesterday cut all the fat out and went back to high carb. But...

My blood sugar 2 hours after lunch was 259! I even took a walk after lunch, which "should" bring sugars down. Checked again 15 minutes later and it was 260. Argh! I'm trying not to panic, but this is concerning.

I wonder if the extra stress of pain (cracked my head open and re-injured an already constant pain inducing bad neck) and worry about my future and doctor bills could be making me go extra high? Can stress affect blood sugar?

I'm trying not to panic, but this is concerning. When I was eating less carbs and more fat/protein my blood sugar after meals was stunningly perfect (like 110). I'm active and thin and am eating whole foods. I am an all or nothing person.

I wish I could help you, John!

Peace,
Atheria

[countryfolks]

I agree with what Lucky said. I set an alarm on my phone for 2 hours postmeal just to check and see what my sugars are. I have a spreadsheet I use, in google docs, to keep track of which foods cause spikes. There aren't that many foods that do it. What usually causes spikes is when I over eat. I keep eating after I'm satiated. My uncle was a physician and used to say when eating, at some point you will sigh, and that's when you need to stop eating. WHen I do that, my sugars are okay, when I keep eating, sugar spike.

Also, I dont understand a family pressuring you to eat foods that are harmful. They love you, want you to be healthy. Explain you can't be tempted by those foods and they can enjoy your company when they get home from the restaurant. I don't eat out with mine because i KNOW I do not resist temptation. It isn't anyone pressuring me.. sure they ask, but I used to go along because I loved the food. I don't now. Once you've been in hospital with DKA you get serious, or at least I did.

I hope this helps. It is hard, but keeping sugars down is worth it. I like what I heard a celebrity with diabetes once say.. that cheesecake will cost me a foot.

[Atheria]

I agree with what Lucky said. I set an alarm on my phone for 2 hours postmeal just to check and see what my sugars are. I have a spreadsheet I use, in google docs, to keep track of which foods cause spikes. There aren't that many foods that do it. What usually causes spikes is when I over eat. I keep eating after I'm satiated. My uncle was a physician and used to say when eating, at some point you will sigh, and that's when you need to stop eating. WHen I do that, my sugars are okay, when I keep eating, sugar spike.

Also, I dont understand a family pressuring you to eat foods that are harmful. They love you, want you to be healthy. Explain you can't be tempted by those foods and they can enjoy your company when they get home from the restaurant. I don't eat out with mine because i KNOW I do not resist temptation. It isn't anyone pressuring me.. sure they ask, but I used to go along because I loved the food. I don't now. Once you've been in hospital with DKA you get serious, or at least I did.

I hope this helps. It is hard, but keeping sugars down is worth it. I like what I heard a celebrity with diabetes once say.. that cheesecake will cost me a foot.

I met this one diabetic woman married to a diabetic man. Their bodies responded to food totally differently. She did great with beans, but not rice. He did great with rice, but not beans. I joked that at least between the two of them they could split Mexican food. LOL

Atheria

[On The Road]

Thanks for the replies,

Going to look more into the MWL,
The other day I checked it first thing in the morning, then took 3 glipizide waited 30 min and it went up 50 points, no food. ate, checked it 30 min after it was down and didn't spike over the next 3 hours. I had checked it a few times during those 3 hours and no spike, it made no sense. I have checked it before bed, then in the morning checked again before eating and it's still the same.

It's pretty clear that what I am doing now is not working. I know the next time I have my phone appointment with the diabetes nurse she is going to want me to start insulin. Really don't want to do that but sometimes I think I may have to.

Any alternatives to tortillas? That is my main meal. Same with the Almond milk, back to dairy? I can see dumping the cheese.

Thanks

[Atheria]

With your situation you should definitely avoid ALL flour products like tortillas, bread, etc. Instead of a burrito, think bowl of brown rice, beans, salsa, and veggies. I am suspecting (with my body's reaction to stuff) too, that like what someone else said...eating too much at one time will make you spike no matter what you eat. I ate more than normal yesterday for lunch and went high. I'm going to eat something similar for lunch today, but less of it, and see if there is a difference. I'm betting my sugar will be improved.

Peace,
Atheria

[AlwaysAgnes]

Thanks for the replies,

Going to look more into the MWL,
The other day I checked it first thing in the morning, then took 3 glipizide waited 30 min and it went up 50 points, no food. ate, checked it 30 min after it was down and didn't spike over the next 3 hours. I had checked it a few times during those 3 hours and no spike, it made no sense. I have checked it before bed, then in the morning checked again before eating and it's still the same.

It's pretty clear that what I am doing now is not working. I know the next time I have my phone appointment with the diabetes nurse she is going to want me to start insulin. Really don't want to do that but sometimes I think I may have to.

Any alternatives to tortillas? That is my main meal. Same with the Almond milk, back to dairy? I can see dumping the cheese.

Thanks

You could drive yourself crazy constantly checking your blood sugar. Dr. McDougall talks about how he treats diabetes here: https://www.drmcdougall.com/misc/2009nl ... abetes.htm He also discusses diabetes drugs and treatment in this newer article: https://www.drmcdougall.com/misc/2017nl ... abetic.htm

The problem with the tortillas used for burritos is that they typically are made with oil/shortening/lard. Are you making them yourself? You could use corn tortillas and make tacos with your bean/veg filling. Omit the cheese. (You could make a veg cheese sauce, if you wanted. Or add a little nutritional yeast for the cheesy flavor.) Another option would be to eat your filling on a bed of whole grains or rice or potato or greens or a combo. Burrito bowl. I don't see a problem with putting the almond milk on your oatmeal unless it contains added oil. Any kind of plant milk (not coconut) that doesn't contain added oils probably should be okay, though I think McDougall generally recommends low-fat soy or rice milk.

Videos:
Cure Type 2 Diabetes With Sugar & White Rice - Dr. McDougall https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1cl2IX94GCI
Diet, Drugs and Diabetes - One Hundred Years of Missed Opportunities https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iosoXlr3ZVI
The Latest Scams from the Diabetic Industry https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UgE2IdL6tMw

[Atheria]

My eating less for lunch thing helped a lot. I didn't take a walk either, due to the annoying WINDY weather in NM right now. 2 hours post lunch I was 163...not perfect, but much better than 259. Perhaps eating smaller "meals" more often is the way to go to keep your sugar more stable. I can't afford to lose weight, so if I kept eating this little, and only 3 times a day, I'd end up dead.

Although I don't think obsessively checking your blood sugar is needed, I also don't believe in NOT checking your blood sugar. The reason diabetics end up in trouble is because they don't know they're diabetic until a lot of damage has been done. You know you have an issue and are actively trying to help yourself. Monitoring how your body behaves is a good idea.

Other things can cause your sugar to rise, also. Some people's blood sugar freaks out if they get sick, or if it's hot/humid weather. I knew a woman who ended up in a hospital for 5 days with dangerously high blood sugar because she'd gotten a cortisone shot in her bad knee. Steroids make your sugar go up. Then there's the whole "Sunrise Effect" that's odd.

Best wishes,
Atheria

[GeoffreyLevens]

I can't afford to lose weight, so if I kept eating this little, and only 3 times a day, I'd end up dead.

Is it possible you need to convert some of the weight you do have into skeletal muscle? It is very possible to be very low BMI, even too low, and still be carrying a lot of extra fat. I am 5'3" and now weigh about 125. A few years ago I got down to 104 and looked like a hat rack with joints but I had significant insulin resistance (high post prandials) from visceral fat that did not show and possibly extra fat in amongst the muscle tissue. Switched it around mostly by getting more resistance exercise and gaining muscle gradually while burning off some of the fat...

[AlwaysAgnes]

My eating less for lunch thing helped a lot. I didn't take a walk either, due to the annoying WINDY weather in NM right now. 2 hours post lunch I was 163...not perfect, but much better than 259. Perhaps eating smaller "meals" more often is the way to go to keep your sugar more stable. I can't afford to lose weight, so if I kept eating this little, and only 3 times a day, I'd end up dead.

Although I don't think obsessively checking your blood sugar is needed, I also don't believe in NOT checking your blood sugar. The reason diabetics end up in trouble is because they don't know they're diabetic until a lot of damage has been done. You know you have an issue and are actively trying to help yourself. Monitoring how your body behaves is a good idea.

Other things can cause your sugar to rise, also. Some people's blood sugar freaks out if they get sick, or if it's hot/humid weather. I knew a woman who ended up in a hospital for 5 days with dangerously high blood sugar because she'd gotten a cortisone shot in her bad knee. Steroids make your sugar go up. Then there's the whole "Sunrise Effect" that's odd.

Best wishes,
Atheria

I think if you are very thin and having high blood sugar, the issue might be more about not producing enough insulin--partial insulin deficiency But that's probably not the OP's issue. I think the OP will see the blood sugar numbers come down with weight loss. But the diabetes meds may be interfering with that, since they tend to cause weight gain. With his patients, Dr. McDougall goes by the morning fasting blood sugar number. He does not prescribe diabetes meds, except for long-acting insulin in some cases. Here's what he writes in the 2009 article I linked: "At the same time medication changes are being made, my patients begin strictly following the McDougall Diet and exercising daily (slowly at first). I ask them to monitor their blood sugars (fasting) every morning with their home measuring unit and report the results to me daily. Based on these blood sugar numbers their insulin injection dosage is either raised or lowered for that evening or the next day. The goal is to keep their fasting blood sugars between 150 mg/dL and 300 mg/dL. I discourage blood sugar measurements at any other time of the day unless they suspect hypoglycemia (too low a sugar). The finding of elevated sugars later in the day after eating just upsets the patient and does not add any useful information in deciding on the next dosage of insulin to be given."

Here's something about the sunrise effect. http://www.diabetes.org/living-with-dia ... menon.html