Final Blood Pressure Push - Looking for Ideas and such

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Final Blood Pressure Push - Looking for Ideas and such

Postby schnyd » Wed Jan 16, 2019 8:09 pm

Hi Everyone,

I don't post much but I've been lurking here for almost 3 years. Some quick back story here:

-I had a heart attack almost 3 years ago (only 37 at the time.)
-Started McDougall Program 30 days later
-I've read all his book, articles, plus a lot of other material by other plant based doctors. (pretty much a full time plant based junky)
-Since my heart attack I switched doctors 3 times to find a match.
-Medication after heart attack: Statin (high dose) 2 blood pressure meds (High Dose) and aspirin.
-Current medications: Stain (low dose) 1 blood pressure (low dose) aspirin.

About 6 months ago I started to feel real crummy (dizzy, vertigo, tired) and after several doctor visits, medications being cut back and test (no issues found). I have requested to stop the last bit of blood pressure medication. I have reasons to believe they are the culprit). The doctor agreed and wants me to follow up in 30 days. My blood pressure is a tad high on the low dose so I expect it to go up in the short term. I would like to not only feel better in 30 days but to have my BP be either the same or slightly better.

What I'm curious about here is what steps have you guys taken to get that final last drop in you blood pressure. Please remember that I'm well versed in the McDougall way so I'm really looking for personal experiences not links to articles and such.

I look forward to reading the replies and thanks in advance.
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Re: Final Blood Pressure Push - Looking for Ideas and such

Postby Lyndzie » Wed Jan 16, 2019 9:14 pm

What about reaching out to one of the docs or Jeff? A phone consult would be a great investment (and probably would save you tons once you get rid of cost of meds).

A couple questions: what are you doing about sodium? Where is your blood pressure at now?
Last edited by Lyndzie on Thu Jan 17, 2019 8:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Final Blood Pressure Push - Looking for Ideas and such

Postby GeorgiaBuck » Thu Jan 17, 2019 3:38 pm

Hey there. I dont know how helpful this will be as you said you are well versed in the plan but this is my personal experience. My bp was averaging around over the course of the last year and my dr wanted to start me on a med but I convinced him to give me 3 months and then reevaluate. This happened back in October of last year. I committed strictly to the plan and definitely didn't add any salt to anything I was eating. I also made sure to get some exercises in each day in at least 3o min of HIIT and regular walking around (I stay on my feet a good bit). Within 2 weeks my bp was averaging around 110/70. After being in that area consistently for a month or so of observations, I dont even check it anymore. As I said I dont know if this will help but wanted to share that the plan definitely helped me.
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Re: Final Blood Pressure Push - Looking for Ideas and such

Postby schnyd » Thu Jan 17, 2019 7:26 pm

Hi GeorgiaBuck,

Thank you for the post, that was exactly what I was looking for. I have eliminated most of my sodium intake but I still sprinkle a little on top of my food and consume some in my the ketchup (maybe two servings max) i have on my breakfast potatoes. I stopped cooking with it a few months ago (FINALLY).

Exercise has been a bit more of a challenge due to the vertigo and dizziness but I still manage to get 20-40 minutes of walking in everyday. I'm hoping as stopping the last blood pressure med will get rid of the vertigo and I will be up for more exercise. I do love to jog.
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Re: Final Blood Pressure Push - Looking for Ideas and such

Postby Vegankit » Thu Jan 17, 2019 9:05 pm

My DH put his long standing vertigo into remission and got his blood pressure down to a low normal but being very, very careful to limit his salt. I follow Jeff Novick's 1:1 sodium/calorie guideline when I buy anything in a can (beans), box (Pomi chopped tomatoes) or frozen (veggies). We have a rule in our house, each day we have a choice to either add a little salt on top of one food, or can use a small amount of condiment - but not both on the same day. Both DH and I are very sensitive to salt. Following these rules we both maintain a low normal blood pressure.

Prior to this, my DH was eating this way, but eating lots of condiments with salt and suffered vertigo for many years. The difference is he now is very, very, very careful, very strict to limit it. It's very easy to add a little more soy sauce, a little more ketchup, to use canned beans with salt along with canned tomatoes with salt in a recipe. It doesn't look like much and it may not taste all that salty - but it all adds up in our bodies and can have a big effect.

I don't know how much sodium you're eating, but you may be like us - very sensitive and as others suggested , lowering your sodium intake may make the difference. I hope you can put your vertigo into remission and get your blood pressure down.
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Re: Final Blood Pressure Push - Looking for Ideas and such

Postby Wonderbugg » Fri Jan 18, 2019 11:13 am

This may sound silly little tip but, heard this from a Dr.
When getting b/p at Dr office don't sit on that table with legs dangling.
Can make pressure read a bit higher.
Do you have a home monitor?
Keep a record for a few days.
Take it different times of day after different activities and eating.
Are you hydrated enough?
Are you stressed certain times of the day?
This can help the Dr.
Take your monitor to visit and check it against theirs.
Will probably vary by a few points but shouldn't be great.
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Re: Final Blood Pressure Push - Looking for Ideas and such

Postby calvin » Sat Jan 19, 2019 11:05 pm

schnyd wrote:...to get that final last drop in you blood pressure...


Just a reminder that, as Nathan Pritikin pointed out and other experts are aware, reducing dietary fat is ten times more effective than reducing salt. Dr. McD is speaking about salt here

The Truth About Salt

but listen to what he says at 00:50.

When it comes to blood pressure (among many other health issues), it's the fat, folks. The fat is the elephant in the room.
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Re: Final Blood Pressure Push - Looking for Ideas and such

Postby schnyd » Sun Jan 20, 2019 12:52 pm

Vegankit -- Great call on the link between salt and vertigo. I actually had come across that some months ago but I had forgotten about it. I shoot for as low salt as I can stand. I estimate that on most days I'm around 1000mg. I can push it lower if things don't resolve themselves, but it will be a bit of a mental challenge.

Wonderbugg- What is really odd for me is my blood pressure at the home and at my primary care doctor is always higher then when I go to the cardiologist. Another interesting thing is as my BP meds have been cut back my blood pressure has dropped with it. A few days into taking no BP medication and my BP was well within McDougalls guidelines.

calvin - Thank you! I will take a listen, I really. Side note I really enjoy his interview with Pritikin. I really wish there was more from him.
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Re: Final Blood Pressure Push - Looking for Ideas and such

Postby Drew_ab » Sun Jan 20, 2019 8:55 pm

Are you still consuming caffeine? Even small amounts from coffee, tea, or cocoa can elevate blood pressure in some people (myself included).
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Re: Final Blood Pressure Push - Looking for Ideas and such

Postby draperbr » Tue Jan 22, 2019 11:29 am

I struggle with my BP as well. For a decade or more I was on multiple BP medications. I also weighed close to 350 lbs. After losing much of the excess weight (I'm currently at 152lbs) I was able to get off my BP meds, and for awhile my BP was hovering around 110/70.

However, over the last year or so, my BP started to rise again, and I don't know why, and it's very frustrating. It is now regularly around 130/85. Not outrageously bad, but I really want to bring it down. I cut out all caffeine and that seemed to nudge it down a few points, but was not a radical change.

I will confess to using salt. I've made a few efforts to cut it out, and never make it more than a few days before I cave. Food just loses all it's appeal to me with no salt. I have definitely cut back, but still consume too much of it.

In reference to the other poster, it's not fat for me. I have been 99%+ oil free for over a year (that other 1% is the rare meal at a restaurant where they may slip some oil in). I am 100% oil free at home where I eat virtually all my meals. Not saying that if I ate oil it wouldn't be worse, but just cutting out oil alone did not solve the problem.

The one other thing I've found that has a significant impact on my BP (and I think is the root cause of my increasing BP) is cardiovascular exercise. And for me it has to be fairly intense cardio. Walking isn't enough - I need to jog. And I detest running. But when I do it, I see the results very fast in my BP. Over the last year or two I have really been slacking on that front and that's the same period that my BP rose. Guess I need to suck it up and join the gym. A brand new gym opened right by my house. It's $10/mo. Must be a sign, LOL.

Anyway, I know you said you had some issues preventing you from jogging right now, but I just wanted to share my experience and what has worked for me.
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Re: Final Blood Pressure Push - Looking for Ideas and such

Postby anne57 » Tue Jan 22, 2019 12:43 pm

...
Last edited by anne57 on Mon May 06, 2019 11:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Final Blood Pressure Push - Looking for Ideas and such

Postby JeffN » Tue Jan 22, 2019 1:17 pm

Of course, too much saturated fat & cholesterol and too little fruits, vegetables, whole grains and beans and the dyslipidemia and atherosclerosis they produce contribute to the development of HTN. And the calcified major arteries seen in most high meat and dairy consuming societies play a significant role in the development of isolated systolic HTN in older people

However, there are those who no matter how closely they have limited fat and follow the guidelines, can't get their BP down to healthy levels until they pay close attention to limiting salt, some to under 1000 mg/day. The reason is, the resistance to flow that is responsible for most hypertension is a result of vasoconstriction in small arterioles along with an increase in blood volume caused by too much sodium.

There are those who can't lose weight till they incorporate all the recommendations for the MWL Program and calorie density. There are those who can't get their triglycerides inline till they avoid all added sugars and limit fruit. And yes, there are those who can't get their BP inline till the pay close attention to limiting salt.

I have seen firsthand the results of this again and again over the last few decades.

In Health
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Re: Final Blood Pressure Push - Looking for Ideas and such

Postby Drew_ab » Wed Jan 23, 2019 8:13 pm

JeffN wrote:Of course, too much saturated fat & cholesterol and too little fruits, vegetables, whole grains and beans and the dyslipidemia and atherosclerosis they produce contribute to the development of HTN. And the calcified major arteries seen in most high meat and dairy consuming societies play a significant role in the development of isolated systolic HTN in older people

However, there are those who no matter how closely they have limited fat and follow the guidelines, can't get their BP down to healthy levels until they pay close attention to limiting salt, some to under 1000 mg/day. The reason is, the resistance to flow that is responsible for most hypertension is a result of vasoconstriction in small arterioles along with an increase in blood volume caused by too much sodium.

There are those who can't lose weight till they incorporate all the recommendations for the MWL Program and calorie density. There are those who can't get their triglycerides inline till they avoid all added sugars and limit fruit. And yes, there are those who can't get their BP inline till the pay close attention to limiting salt.

I have seen firsthand the results of this again and again over the last few decades.

In Health
Jeff


This is a very powerful statement. And it's stated in such a clear and concise manner that really hits home. It's worth quoting to get posted again just for extra emphasis.
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Re: Final Blood Pressure Push - Looking for Ideas and such

Postby schnyd » Sat Jan 26, 2019 2:36 pm

JeffN wrote:limiting salt, some to under 1000 mg/day.


Pretty sure that is me.
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Re: Final Blood Pressure Push - Looking for Ideas and such

Postby Mom+Me » Sat Feb 02, 2019 2:45 am

I know I've read that Dr. McDougall says for most people, following his plan will bring people's blood pressure into a normal range. But for those in dire straits (close to death), following the Rice Diet under medical supervision may be needed. Please don't quote me.

Okay, I just looked for the article + found it. Here are Dr. McDougall's own words:
"I find myself recommending the Rice Diet several times a year to the few patients I see who are on the verge of complete heart or kidney failure. Otherwise, I recommend the McDougall Diet (a starch-based diet with fruits and non-starchy-vegetables along with some salt and sugar for flavorings) to almost all of my patients."

And here's a link to the article from which I got the above quote: https://www.drmcdougall.com/2013/12/31/ ... rice-diet/
"Eat your heart out (of trouble)!"--Dr. John A. McDougall
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