Blood sugar will not go down

[Atheria]

My eating less for lunch thing helped a lot. I didn't take a walk either, due to the annoying WINDY weather in NM right now. 2 hours post lunch I was 163...not perfect, but much better than 259. Perhaps eating smaller "meals" more often is the way to go to keep your sugar more stable. I can't afford to lose weight, so if I kept eating this little, and only 3 times a day, I'd end up dead.

Although I don't think obsessively checking your blood sugar is needed, I also don't believe in NOT checking your blood sugar. The reason diabetics end up in trouble is because they don't know they're diabetic until a lot of damage has been done. You know you have an issue and are actively trying to help yourself. Monitoring how your body behaves is a good idea.

Other things can cause your sugar to rise, also. Some people's blood sugar freaks out if they get sick, or if it's hot/humid weather. I knew a woman who ended up in a hospital for 5 days with dangerously high blood sugar because she'd gotten a cortisone shot in her bad knee. Steroids make your sugar go up. Then there's the whole "Sunrise Effect" that's odd.

Best wishes,
Atheria

I think if you are very thin and having high blood sugar, the issue might be more about not producing enough insulin--partial insulin deficiency But that's probably not the OP's issue. I think the OP will see the blood sugar numbers come down with weight loss. But the diabetes meds may be interfering with that, since they tend to cause weight gain. With his patients, Dr. McDougall goes by the morning fasting blood sugar number. He does not prescribe diabetes meds, except for long-acting insulin in some cases. Here's what he writes in the 2009 article I linked: "At the same time medication changes are being made, my patients begin strictly following the McDougall Diet and exercising daily (slowly at first). I ask them to monitor their blood sugars (fasting) every morning with their home measuring unit and report the results to me daily. Based on these blood sugar numbers their insulin injection dosage is either raised or lowered for that evening or the next day. The goal is to keep their fasting blood sugars between 150 mg/dL and 300 mg/dL. I discourage blood sugar measurements at any other time of the day unless they suspect hypoglycemia (too low a sugar). The finding of elevated sugars later in the day after eating just upsets the patient and does not add any useful information in deciding on the next dosage of insulin to be given."

Here's something about the sunrise effect. http://www.diabetes.org/living-with-dia ... menon.html

Hi Agnes,

What does OP mean? My history is like my now insulin dependent mother's....but....unlike her, I am trying to help myself via diet and exercise instead of meds. (Trust me, I'm VERY anti Big Pharma.) In 2010 I started off with my endocrine system "blowing" after a very high glycemic vegan Thanksgiving with too much wine. I became SEVERELY hypoglycemic and struggled with that for a few years. At one point, an endocrinologist said that my form of hypo usually became diabetes eventually. He said something about my pancreas probably shooting out insulin too late. My mom started off with sudden hypoglycemia in her 30s (it hit me at age 44....and I think being vegan bought me 10 years) but she kept eating crap food and gained a bunch of weight, and now is in bad shape at age 75. I'm 51. The past couple of years, my blood sugar is going too high more often than too low....so my body is trying to become diabetic. I just flat out refuse to let it win!

I am giving more credit to my fasting numbers than post meal numbers, but still....if my sugar is too high for quite a few hours of the day, that's not good either. When you are high, damage is being done. My goal is to keep my sugar as stable as possible. Now, it's possible that because I've only been back on high carb/low fat for a few days I need to give my body some time to adjust and stop freaking out.

I do think that for anyone with diabetes, any tortillas or bread are not the best options. I have an inherited gluten issue, so I can't have wheat (sniff....sniff....sob) and I've found that the gluten free breads are WAY worse than wheat bread. Rice breads, for example, are like pouring straight sugar packets onto my tongue. Even if the tortillas are made at home and don't have added fat (yes....flour ones from the store are usually high fat), someone who is struggling to get his/her numbers down shouldn't eat them. It sucks, but it's true.

Thank you,
Atheria

[AlwaysAgnes]

Hopefully I can whittle down the quotes without creating too much of a mess....

Hi Agnes,

What does OP mean? My history is like my now insulin dependent mother's....but....unlike her, I am trying to help myself via diet and exercise instead of meds. (Trust me, I'm VERY anti Big Pharma.) In 2010 I started off with my endocrine system "blowing" after a very high glycemic vegan Thanksgiving with too much wine. I became SEVERELY hypoglycemic and struggled with that for a few years. At one point, an endocrinologist said that my form of hypo usually became diabetes eventually. He said something about my pancreas probably shooting out insulin too late. My mom started off with sudden hypoglycemia in her 30s (it hit me at age 44....and I think being vegan bought me 10 years) but she kept eating crap food and gained a bunch of weight, and now is in bad shape at age 75. I'm 51. The past couple of years, my blood sugar is going too high more often than too low....so my body is trying to become diabetic. I just flat out refuse to let it win!

I am giving more credit to my fasting numbers than post meal numbers, but still....if my sugar is too high for quite a few hours of the day, that's not good either. When you are high, damage is being done. My goal is to keep my sugar as stable as possible. Now, it's possible that because I've only been back on high carb/low fat for a few days I need to give my body some time to adjust and stop freaking out.

I do think that for anyone with diabetes, any tortillas or bread are not the best options. I have an inherited gluten issue, so I can't have wheat (sniff....sniff....sob) and I've found that the gluten free breads are WAY worse than wheat bread. Rice breads, for example, are like pouring straight sugar packets onto my tongue. Even if the tortillas are made at home and don't have added fat (yes....flour ones from the store are usually high fat), someone who is struggling to get his/her numbers down shouldn't eat them. It sucks, but it's true.

Thank you,
Atheria

OP means Original Poster. I didn't want to get sidetracked too much from the OP's individual situation (or Dr. McDougall's recommendations). I think your issues are more T1.5 than T2. In your case, the pancreas is damaged and not producing enough insulin. In the OP's case, I think the pancreas is probably producing enough insulin. That's my impression, anyway, for what it's worth.

Here's something about hypoglycemia:
https://www.drmcdougall.com/health/educ ... oglycemia/

You can look at the food suggestions in this https://www.drmcdougall.com/misc/2004nl ... abetes.htm and see that Dr. McDougall doesn't eliminate all flour products in his dietary recommendation for T2 diabetes. Of course that doesn't mean people ever have to eat any flour products if they choose not to for whatever reason.

I don't think you'll ever find me cheerleading on the anti-milled grains ever bandwagon. I think that "no flours" is fine for some people with some health issues, but I also think the regular McDougall program works very well, and most people will see results on it (proportional to the degree that they follow it). I also think people have been grinding/processing grains since they figured out they could eat grains. Historically, diabetes wasn't a common disease. It's one of the diseases of kings and queens, a disease state brought on by too many animal products and fats, not by milled grains. Again, I don't know exactly what the OP's tortillas were made from. If they were made using whole grain flour without added oils, I'd be surprised. Fatfree whole grain tortillas are just rare birds not often seen in these wilds of America. And the cheese thing. It's just bad juju. I'd say try to avoid it as much as possible.


https://www.drmcdougall.com/misc/2009nl/dec/nyr.htm :
Category IV -- Health-Supporting Foods

These foods are health-supporting. They allow your body to attain and maintain its naturally intended state of good health. They should account for the greatest share (at least 90 percent) of your calories if you are healthy and for all of them if you are still working to regain your health.

1. Whole grains, such as wheat, rice, barley, millet, rye, oats, corn, and popcorn.

2. Milled grains, such as whole-wheat flour, corn meal, brown rice flour, rye flour, oatmeal, and bulgur.

3. Starchy vegetables, such as white potatoes, sweet potatoes, yams, and cassava.

4. Green and yellow vegetables, such as spinach, kale, zucchini, broccoli, cabbage, carrots, and onions.

5. Sprouted seeds and beans, such as alfalfa, radish, wheat, mung bean, and lentil.

6. Beans, peas, lentils, such as kidney beans, white beans, garbanzo beans, pinto beans, split peas, and red lentils. (These legumes are high-protein. They should be restricted to about one cup of cooked food on average daily and restricted even more for people with osteoporosis, kidney stones, and liver or kidney failure.)

7. Fresh fruits. (All edible varieties of these are suitable; however, most people should limit them to about three per day. They contain simple sugars that are largely protected by fiber. People trying to lose weight and people with high triglycerides should consider further limitation.)

There's also this. https://www.drmcdougall.com/misc/2010nl/jun/sugar.pdf

[Atheria]

I agree that the OP (now I know new lingo!) seems to be a classic Type 2, as opposed to me. He MAY need to limit all flour products right now though, until he gets stabilized. I know rice bread (since I can't eat gluten....whining again) makes my blood sugar jump and then plummet like a rock. And, yep, I've not seen a flour tortilla that doesn't have fat in it. That's what makes them so soft and yummy. LOL - I've never loved corn tortillas, which usually don't have fat added. They are dry to me, blech.

Because the OP's body is being stubborn, I do think someone else's suggestion that he stick to more of the Maximum Weight Loss plan...with more veggies than starches...may be a good idea for now. Once his weight is lower and his blood sugar is running lower, he can probably up his starches.

I do love how the body, in its wisdom, CAN heal...when given the right fuel. My fasting number this a.m. was great at 87. Each day I stick to low fat, my numbers are lowering.

When I was having SEVERE low blood sugar attacks years ago all the time, it was to the point you would have thought I'd taken insulin shots or something. It wasn't just, a headache, feeling crabby, etc. It was severe shaking, passing out, diarrhea, vomiting, body going numb, pale, heart racing, sweating, etc.....think ERs. Some people think that can only happen to diabetics on insulin, but, nope.

I am just thrilled that John IS trying to help himself instead of relying on typical Western Medicine ways of Big Pharma and outdated dietary advice.


Atheria

[Atheria]

John,

You are going to hate me, but you need to UP your exercise too. Walking is GREAT, but 3-4 miles a week won't cut it regarding getting your health on track. Try a mile a day...then 2 miles a day. If you have to break walking up into different sessions, that's fine. If you can get to 3 miles a day, which at 15 minutes a mile is only 45 minutes (an hour at 20 minute miles), I have a feeling you'd see big improvement.

Also, if I were you, I'd mush your lunch and dinner together....meaning, instead of the 2 burritos (keep in mind I think you'd be better off with a "burrito bowl" that doesn't have tortillas) at lunch and only veggies at dinner, have 1 burrito at lunch with extra veggies....and another burrito at dinner with veggies. Even out your food intake. I do also think you'd be better off with more often, but smaller snacks/meals. There are mixed views on the 3 meals a day vs. 5-6 snacks a day thing, but I've personally noticed that my blood sugar does better with eating smaller amounts more often.

Best wishes,
Atheria

[Willijan]

If you weigh 350 lbs. you have serious problems, and not just blood sugar. And I am just now reading something that might be helpful to you. It gave me a new perspective on eating. I have a tendency to want to eat too much.
I have been on the McDougall diet about 6 years, and now have a BMI below 19, so I don't need this right now, but just out of curiosity I am reading The Rice Diet Report by Judy Moscovitz, which someone on this forum recently mentioned. It is an account of the Kempner rice diet, which is to some degree similar to the McDougall diet. It is written by someone who went from 275 lbs to 119 lbs on the rice diet, during the 1980s.
I was rather appalled by the diet, but I was impressed by the discipline that people on it have. And according to Dr. McDougall, it worked--at least according to reports published by Kempner.
You need to be on McDougall Maximum Weight Loss, in my opinion. Your family needs to start taking your health needs seriously and supporting your diet rather than sabotaging you. Ignore them if they don't support you, and start eating to stay alive and have a good life, and incidentally, to improve their lives. Read the Moscovitz book and you may get inspired by what can be done. Then go on MWL because it works and it is a lot more pleasant and healthy.
You can get the book used on Amazon.

[Atheria]

If you weigh 350 lbs. you have serious problems, and not just blood sugar. And I am just now reading something that might be helpful to you. It gave me a new perspective on eating. I have a tendency to want to eat too much.
I have been on the McDougall diet about 6 years, and now have a BMI below 19, so I don't need this right now, but just out of curiosity I am reading The Rice Diet Report by Judy Moscovitz, which someone on this forum recently mentioned. It is an account of the Kempner rice diet, which is to some degree similar to the McDougall diet. It is written by someone who went from 275 lbs to 119 lbs on the rice diet, during the 1980s.
I was rather appalled by the diet, but I was impressed by the discipline that people on it have. And according to Dr. McDougall, it worked--at least according to reports published by Kempner.
You need to be on McDougall Maximum Weight Loss, in my opinion. Your family needs to start taking your health needs seriously and supporting your diet rather than sabotaging you. Ignore them if they don't support you, and start eating to stay alive and have a good life, and incidentally, to improve their lives. Read the Moscovitz book and you may get inspired by what can be done. Then go on MWL because it works and it is a lot more pleasant and healthy.
You can get the book used on Amazon.

I totally agree. I worked with an overweight woman years ago who actually admitted to me that she was making her boyfriend gain weight so that he wouldn't leave her. The family sabotaging is NOT okay. And yes, even on a healthy diet, you can overeat and stop it from working.

Atheria

[AlwaysAgnes]

I found this pdf online. I think it's images from one of Dr. McDougall's lectures. http://www.pcrm.org/sites/default/files ... e-Good.pdf

The interesting thing about the talk about Kempner and MWL is that those are basically opposites. Kempner was largely refined rice, fruit juice and sugar. MWL avoids those things. And yet people can see results with both. They can also see results on the regular McDougall program or on Dr. Barnard's program or on Fuhrman's program. https://www.pcrm.org/media/art/download ... idfoods-to https://www.drfuhrman.com/library/eat-t ... r-diabetes

[f00die]

I found this pdf online. I think it's images from one of Dr. McDougall's lectures. http://www.pcrm.org/sites/default/files ... e-Good.pdf

The interesting thing about the talk about Kempner and MWL is that those are basically opposites. Kempner was largely refined rice, fruit juice and sugar. MWL avoids those things. And yet people can see results with both. They can also see results on the regular McDougall program or on Dr. Barnard's program or on Fuhrman's program. https://www.pcrm.org/media/art/download ... idfoods-to https://www.drfuhrman.com/library/eat-t ... r-diabetes

the thing all these diets have in common is being very low fat.
fat availability in the ancestral environment was very low.
i believe dr. mcd caught my attention first when he said somewhere
that dietary cholesterol and free oils were primary poisons.
i had never heard anyone express their harmfulness in
such unequivocal terms.
cant say how grateful i am that he didnt mince his words