Being & Staying Skinny: the journal continues

[roundcoconut]

I'm not one to normally read journals ... especially after being WFPB for 7.5 years.

Drew, I'm so glad you stopped by. I really don't have nearly enough contact with folks who eat plant-based and are doing well with it, and in a solid groove. Really, I just always want to be like, "Why are there so few of us? Why are people not getting their groove like we got ours?"

I somehow think that we are teaching people wrong. glossing over the most important things (calorie dilute) while letting the profit motives emphasize the unimportant things (vegan! plant based! organic! gluten free!)

It reminds me of the skill of being/becoming bilingual, which a painfully low percentage of Americans ever manage to come by (apart from those who spoke a non-english language in the home and acquired English as a second language). And yet, entire countries of humans manage to be bilingual in this day and age, because they don't dick around (excuse my vulgar expression!). They know how many hours of execution are required to get their citizens to be bilingual, and they dedicate that.

And yet in America, we want to make things easier than they are -- less activity than we need for good health, more processed food than we need for good health, more empty calories than we need to hit our targets, and (in the case of language acquisition) far too little time spent in the foreign language, than would be needed to acquire that language.

So we set people up for failure by not being honest about what is required, and then people don't succeed, and then they say, "I tried that plant-based thing, and didn't get my miracle."

We need to teach people to aim for the right targets! (And do ample target practice.)

Those are my thoughts that I keep thinking these days! Get the calorie density right and then go from there.

Won't it be nice when other people begin to succeed at this as well?!?

[f00die]

if this requires veggies at $13+/day/person
its not accessible
its a feat

[roundcoconut]

Yeah, I think that is the thing — I just feel like I’ll do what it takes! Happily so.

I don’t know if the foods I buy are the cheapest way to go (nobody really NEEDS cherry tomatoes, and nobody really NEEDS to be at the lower end of a normal BMI), but I like both. And I can afford it.

But yes — when you pay for fresh vegetables, you are not paying for calories. You can get calories for so much cheaper!

When you pay for fresh vegetables, you pay for the calorie-dilute “medicine” that a long-overfed body needs. Many people take quickly to starches and they eat for quite cheaply — they attain their ideal weight, and they have a flat belly, and they do not go back for seconds once their hunger is allayed.

Me — not so mucch.

I think that even the humble starch offers a more concentrated source of calories than fruits or non-starchy vegetables do. And I think that this more concentrated source of calories can be a bit much for some people when eaten straight.

A loaf of bread has tripped many people up. (No huge surprise there, as bread is very high in calorie density). Also, mashed potatoes can get quickly out of hand. (And no big surprises there either, as this is kind of a “blended” food — a cross between eating your calories and drinking your calories). And as you go down the scale, the foods trip people up less. Boiled potatoes probably don’t trip a ton of people up, but calorie for calorie, I’d rather have a bowl of tomatoes, and stick to fewer starches.

Regardless of how “trippy” the starches are (raw corn doesn’t trip me up, but kidney beans do), starches are still a more concentrated source of calories than you would get from some lightly cooked asparagus.

My philosophy is to keep the calorie density lower than it would be on straight starches. So, yes, I am adding tomatoes in abundance, and zucchini in abundance, plus jiccama, apples, lettuce, spinach.

It is not free but I still think it is a bargain, for what I get!

That is a total ramble-fest, but I am really feeling it’s the sanest way to eat, to keep the calorie dilution where it needs to be, for someone who is 43, works at a desk, and doesn’t weigh a whole lot. Personalization at its finest.

[roundcoconut]

A joural entry for this morning:

I was remarking to myself yesterday, that part of what trips humans up, is that our emotions are so quick to change, and we find ourselves feeling discouraged, or fatigued, or rejected sometimes — at the drop of a hat, for no apparent reason, and without our permission.

Like, yesterday was a slow day at work for me, and my energy levels just TANKED, and suddenly I was in the dungeon emotionally.

For anyone who has ever dipped their toe into cognitive behavioral therapy, I think that approach really has something to offer us:

When you are in the dungeon, refute, refute, refute.

I believe that at times, emotions lie to us. They present us with a lens for seeing our current situation, that does not serve us. They say, “Isn’t this depressing”, instead of saying, “You could see this as depressing or you could see this in five other ways — you tell US how you wanna feel.”

Part of the challenge of being a human, is that sometimes we are at the grocery store under the influence of bad vibes, and we just think stupid things when we are down in the dungeon emotionally. The thing to do is to recognize (“Oh, here I am, in the freaking dungeon. Good heavens.”) and refute, refute, refute.

For me, I always talk to myself — like, “Girl, we gotta get you outta here. I don’t care how many yellow squashes you wanna put in your cart, and I don’t care if you wanna buy four bags of brussel sprouts, but let’s get you into the sunlight where you can’t do anything stupid.”

I try to “take the knife away” from the girl in the dungeon. And start offering myself options that bring me out of the dungeon and back onto the surface of Planet Earth.

OK, I’m going to leave it at that for now. Use your imagination!

[roundcoconut]

Strategies that I want to share:

I have gotten a lot of mileage recently out of using calorie-dilute raw foods as the delivery mechanism for richer more flavorful, cooked or starchy foods.

You can put almost ANYTHING into a mushroom cap, and enjoy it. Who the heck doesn’t like eating off of a mushroom?

This is one way to make something seasoned and cooked to go in the middle, but leave the actual mushroom cup plain or only lightly cooked. Do i need to point out that this drops the calorie density of the meal by a MILE?

D188DCD9-3C30-430C-992C-78213A37E19B by Pretty Buttercup, on Flickr

90186244-DDF9-4079-A786-97F4724B6278 by Pretty Buttercup, on Flickr

Raw or cooked, this is going to catapult you to awesomeness.

[roundcoconut]

Another strategy I’ve been using lately for executing calorie dilute meals (enjoyably!):

Loading up a wedge of lettuce and eating off of that. Check out some pretty pics (these are NOT my pics, because obviously I’m lazy):

39FE8211-403C-48DB-839C-A9D6B9F5D2BA by Pretty Buttercup, on Flickr

See how this works? Round up some food and shout, “Get on the boat!”

993F435C-2C00-4D52-903E-A81ED4192596 by Pretty Buttercup, on Flickr
Here’s another one. Fruit and nuts look prettty. “All aboard!”

461DBF03-7A2D-4D26-908E-E471937F0CC9 by Pretty Buttercup, on Flickr
I like the idea of lentils sliding into the cracks, too. I can’t find a picture where anyone executed that plan, but shouldn’t someone do that? Or, you could make a 1/4 cup of hummus go really far, but stuffing it into the cracks of a few lettuce boats, and have shredded carrots on top, or sliced cucumbers.

Honestly, lettuce boats are messy A.F.! I constantly put too many goodies on the boat, and then it all dribbles back onto the plate. But y’know what? I am able to stretch my calorie dense foods, over 1/2 a head of lettuce, and enjoy it, and as long as I’m not on a date, who the heck cares if half the corn I pile onto my lettuce winds up on the floor?!

[roundcoconut]

I honestly believe that enthusiasm and positive energy are the Magic Sauce, that makes us succeed at becoming a different person, in terms of our health habits, our eating patterns and our food preferences.

If we will not bring the enthusiasm and positivity to what we're doing, who will? Santa Claus?

I mean, nobody EVER got good at anything by doing it grudgingly, with a heavy heart, and wishing they could be doing something else instead.

So -- yes -- if you don't think rafts of lettuce, or boats of mushrooms are fun, then what IS fun to you about this way of eating? Do THAT.

I feel like it's our job to Lead With The Fun. Lead with what excites you, and get everyone on board with that. If it excites you to throw your effing CPAP machine out the window, then figure out a way to make it so. If it excites you to think of buying dresses and feeling sexy in them, then make that your leading vision. I mean, without the fun, how we do power the engine. Y'know?

Oh well. So, the thing I want to say here is, I am happy to share with you MY enthusiasm for what I am doing what and what really jazzes ME up about this way of eating. But I get it -- lettuce boats maybe aren't your thing, and you maybe don't give a CRAP about looking cute on the treadmill.

But YOU get to do YOU. With passion. With enthusiasm. And bring all the success in the world, into your own life.

[bunsofaluminum]

Hi coconut,

I've just skimmed over the past couple of pages of your new journal, the posts about calorie density, getting in those vegs primarily and not quite so much starchy.

Here is a life hack from years ago, from a guy on these forums, PinkRose. He lived in (I think) China with his wife who is Chinese, and their kids. And he was a healthy BMI with a good activity level, and he explained a few times how he ate his starches "for dessert." That is, he always fixed a meal of steamed vegs and roasted sweet potato (that was his primary starch) and he always ate the veggies first, and the starch after the veggies were gone, and ate until satiated. This got him to, and kept him at a healthy BMI. He was maintaining when I knew him on these boards.

Your ideas remind me a lot of PinkRose.

[roundcoconut]

Bunso, yes, I LOVE pinkrose’s approach! Thanks for mentioning that.

I sometimes feel as though I get seen as the crazy beauty-obsessed chick around here, for not being starch-heavy in my meals, or freewheelin’ about my calories. But! Other people have adopted similar approaches with similar (good!) results, who are dull middle-aged men. (Ha! I say this TOTALLY affectionately, because I think it’s funny.).

So in other words, I feel like the Rodney Dangerfield of plant-based eating. I get no respect!

But y’know, it’s so funny, because I really feel that it’s not the dry, dull scientists who make a difference in the world, but those of us who have no idea what thermogenesis is, but can EXECUTE this way of life, and can point the way to others.

So in the end, YES, it is neither here nor there whether Dr McDougall knows my name or even if he would think that I am a bad poster child (heaven forbid), because I think it is the boots on the ground, where we can help each other get good at what we’re doing here.

So if anything good rubs off on you, from my manic ramblings, then good! And if not, no biggie, because you can draw inspiration from other places.

[roundcoconut]

I am kind of obsessed with how we can use vegetables as our delivery mechanism, as a way to bring our calorie density down.

In other words, there are people who are massively athletic, who need to bring their calorie density UP, and goodie for them, because they are going to loading up their food onto toast, or onto potatoes, or on avocado boats (gasp). All that dense food is not for me!

For those of us who need a calorie dilute delivery mechanism, it just so happens to be true that anything that can stuff a baked potato, can also stuff a tomato. Genius, no?

In fact, nearly anything that can be eaten with a spoon (except soup), can be eaten in a tomato.

Here’s what this could look like, to painlessly eat less filling, and eat more tomato:

51DB1EA0-68F3-4F49-945B-8D4DB4E2E661 by Pretty Buttercup, on Flickr

A dressed chopped salad, served up in a tomato!

02C89640-77BF-4379-8CD2-8B0644641E2F by Pretty Buttercup, on Flickr

This is if you’re trying to spread out a smaller amount of your hummus-based dressing, over a larger portion of fresh veg.

E9F6608D-BB80-4F4A-A46A-B0D168DADC11 by Pretty Buttercup, on Flickr

Also like this could work!

I mean, ANYTHING cooked could go into a bite-ish sized raw tomato with the goopy part scooped out. I think that basil is particularly good in the mix. About two bucks for a small container of basil, and that’s all you need to have wonderful flavor.

EC14CB9C-29C2-4449-B5CD-3D8F5646EFC1 by Pretty Buttercup, on Flickr

The magic is, you can be sloppy. It doesn’t have to be precious. Just use tomato as a delivery mechanism, to eat more veg and less whatever. (Less quinoa, less corn salad, less whatever is being served inside the tomato.).

There’s my third in a series of reposting pretty pictures from other people’s blogs!

[roundcoconut]

We like eating to be easy.

We like eating to be fun.

What if eating this way could be BOTH fun and easy?

I don't mean forced ancillary fun like going to hear Alan Goldhamer speak at a VegFest, and he makes good jokes and is an entertaining speaker.

I guess what I'm thinking is that I don't mean "fun" in the sense of silliness, or jester hats, or knock-knock jokes with potato punchlines.

I mean, "fun" in the sense where you get engaged in a project, and you start to get good at it, and it starts to come along and take shape, and you just want to get back at it, with every spare second you have.

I don't EXACTLY know how to make that happen for anybody else, but I know that it absolutely can happen.

One of the pieces of the puzzle, is when you have that Magic Sauce -- that excitement, that enthusiasm, that passion.

Preceding that, I think, is that you feel you have the kind of coaching that can take you all the way. you can't feel like you don't have the tools. You have to somehow feel a sense of traction, before it starts to feel fun, TRULY fun.

And then I think, YES, this gets easy.

Small wins -- a series of them -- make this start to be fun, and start to feel easy. The trips to the grocery store are easy. Heating up your lunch in the office kitchen is fun. Shopping for new clothes is fun. Getting up in the morning is even fun (because healthy people sleep so well).

I can't describe why I have been coming to these boards for over five years, and just sharing, sharing, sharing, but part of it is because everything related to this way of eating is interesting to me.

(I don't wanna overstate that -- the people who come to these boards dragging the burdens of their own sh*tty attitudes -- I don't find that fun AT ALL, and actually want nothing to do with that. Like, there's absolutely nothing fun about that. I click on very few links in the Lounge anymore, for that reason.)

I like being in contact with hard workers who want to "earn their health back" as Dr Fuhrman puts it. I like people who want to stand out, and be success stories, and are happy to set aside levels of calorie richness that were keeping them sick, and pick up levels of calorie dilution that give them renewed vitality and radiance.

Wait, where was I going with this post?

Oh yeah. Easy, because it's fun. And success makes it fun. And engagement makes it fun. And having access to good information gives you the toolkit. There y'go!
-

[roundcoconut]

I just read another mainstream article about eating disorders, and yet again, the article does very little to distinguish between healthy ways of getting right with your BMI & calorie density, versus people who do destructive things to their body because they are coming from a dark place emotionally.

One reason I want to mention the distinction between a true eating disorder, and articles in the mainstream that call EVERYTHING an eating disorder is this:

I honestly think that many people do quite well on this way of eating, until they start to feel a sense of scrutiny (real or imagined) from their peers about what they are doing. So in an effort to prove that they are not “going too far” or “obsessed” with their weight or their food, they agree to eat sweets, or pizza, or oily restaurant food — thus re-toxifying their body with calorie-rich-and-processed food, and then sliding down the slippery slope back into their SAD eating and their SAD diseases.

So, I’m curious — how do we think clearly about this?

For starters, we ARE allowed to be passionate about our health, and we don’t have to have a heart attack in our past in order to “justify” our food choices to anybody. It’s my life, and it’s my body. And nobody else really gets a vote.

We really don’t have to agree to be “moderate” (olive oil) or “good sports” (birthday cake), just because that would make other people more comfortable. Especially if those people are adopting the language of starting to accuse of us of extreme eating (“I think you’re taking this way too far.” Or “I think you look fine. You don’t need to lose weight to like yourself.”

I’m sure that we have every right to be extremely attentive to our health — including refusing food that has oil in it (yes, even olive oil) and including declining offers of other people’s food. We are grown-ups and can eat perfectly good food that’s in line with our health goals & in line with our desired body weight.

I keep thinking — society (at least some people within it) are so deeply worried about us being anorexic, that they cannot tolerate any eating patterns that are different from theirs, without feeling that we are doing damage to ourselves emotionally by being so “strict”. To them, any devoted athlete could be accused of having an “unhealthy obsession” with their sport, and every focused innovator could be accused of having a “dangerous fixation” on success, and every passionate dancer could be accused of “being compulsive” about their life.

So, someone who is hypersensitive about eating disorders would — by the same standard — think that EVERY person focused on high levels of success (in a sport, in an artform, in a career) is “trapped” and needs to be rescued. But why in the world would this be true? Can’t people choose to pursue something with great effort, without it being pathologized by society?

In some ways, an eating disorder is an addiction to starving oneself. Just as an alcoholic may feel trapped in their addiction, and may in fact need a helping hand not to keep getting sucked into a viscious pattern that they do not wish for themselves, someone who is anorexic may feel trapped in patterns of self-starvation, and may feel that if they do not get help, they will get sucked into that vortex again and again.

So that seems to be one distinction — does a person feel trapped in behavior patterns they do not wish for themselves.

Certainly, an innovator like Steve Jobs or somebody doesn’t LONG to quell the fires of their passion, so that they can learn to be happy as a 9-to-5 proggrammer rather than actualize their fabulous goals for themselves. Society can’t just decide see any flames (of passion! of greatness!) and call the freaking fire department.

Oh well, that’s an incomplete post. But I’m seriously thinking — how do we refute accusations that what we’re doing is “too extreme” and “emotionally unhealthy”? Versus, doing something that’s importat to us, that does not end in death or destruction, as eating disorders do.

More on this later!

[roundcoconut]

Back to:

What is REALLY an eating disorder, and who are the REAL people in our society who feel trapped in eating patterns they do not wish on themselves?

So — I think this is going to be really useful in opening up good dialogues with people around us:

Let’s start with the idea that anorexia is an addiction to starving oneself. Or we could say, compulsive behavior patterns of starving oneself, malnourishing oneself, purging any nourishment one DOES take in, and attaining/maintaining a body weight associated with discomfort (chronic or near-chronic hunger), fatigue, and coldness.

With this as our framework for what anorexia really is, it makes sense that an anorexic may find themselves trapped in their addictions to inflicting starvation on themselves — their addiction is causing all kinds of destruction in their lives (dental problems, inability to continue in activities they used to be good at, self-imposed isolation) — but even with things falling down all around them, the anorexic feels they cannot stop the cycle of self-starvation and the compulsion to malnourish themselves.

I think the pattern mirrors what happens with an alcoholic — the alcoholic incurs marital trouble (or divorce), job trouble, legal trouble (e.g. DUI), but they are addicted to intoxicating themselves so life spirals down the toilet until they can get into some type of program of sobriety.

My point is, what we’re doing here — EVEN me who spends $13 at the grocery store to buy more tomatoes than a person really “needs” — is definitely not a pattern of “Our world is crashing down around us, but we cannot seem to escape the destructive addiction to eating this way.”

(Isn’t that hilarious when you look at it that way?)

In fact, the standard of eating disorder really DOES describe an addiction to stuffing oneself (the reason many people start a plant-based diet), more than it would ever describe a plant-based diet itself. Get this:

- Many people (with and without extreme weight problems) feel addicted to stuffing themselves
- They feel trapped in behaviors related to inflicting food overages on themselves — they swear they want out but feel they cannot escape the destructive addictio to eating this way.
- The person incurs inflammation, low energy levels, discomfort in their own body, disturbed sleep, compromised fitness — but they are addicting to stuffing themselves, so life spirals down the toilet until they can get themselves into some type of plan of caloric equilibrium (rather than constant calorie overage).

So really, our society is riddled with people who have an addiction to stuffing themselves, and can see that it is harming them, but feel trapped in behavior patterns of “stuffing”. Yes, there is a minority in our society who is addicted to starving themselves, but that minority does not include you or me or Caldwell Esselstyn.

[roundcoconut]

A word about being more radiant & youthful by eating healthfully:

One thing about eating this way is that I feel awesome and full of life, and (in my own eyes at the very least), I also look happy, youthful and radiant.

There’s a downside to this:

I often assume I am much younger than someone, when in fact, the other person is actually younger than me or the same age as me. (Awkward.)

I was talking to an awesome co-worker of mine yesterday who I guessed to be five or six years older than me. We were commenting on my fondness for late80s/early90s music, and I said to him, “My high school graduating year was ‘92, so I just have a fondness for that kind of stuff. You can’t be much older than me, right?”

Well, I was expecting him to say he was in his late 40s (I was expecting him to say Class of ‘87 or something), but as it happens, he is just a year older than me. Wow.

The way people eat can take its toll and possibly make people seem older than they really are. What do we call the opposite of a Peter Pan effect? (Not a trick question — I don’t have a good term for it. Pipe in, if anyone can suggest terminology.) SAD eaters often have that aged look.

I’m not positive how many other plant-based eaters have a little bit of a Peter Pan effect going for them, but I definitely feel that we at least do not look OLDER than we actually are.

That’s my frivolous comment for this morning!

[bunsofaluminum]

Back to:

What is REALLY an eating disorder, and who are the REAL people in our society who feel trapped in eating patterns they do not wish on themselves?

So — I think this is going to be really useful in opening up good dialogues with people around us:

Let’s start with the idea that anorexia is an addiction to starving oneself. Or we could say, compulsive behavior patterns of starving oneself, malnourishing oneself, purging any nourishment one DOES take in, and attaining/maintaining a body weight associated with discomfort (chronic or near-chronic hunger), fatigue, and coldness.

With this as our framework for what anorexia really is, it makes sense that an anorexic may find themselves trapped in their addictions to inflicting starvation on themselves — their addiction is causing all kinds of destruction in their lives (dental problems, inability to continue in activities they used to be good at, self-imposed isolation) — but even with things falling down all around them, the anorexic feels they cannot stop the cycle of self-starvation and the compulsion to malnourish themselves.

I think the pattern mirrors what happens with an alcoholic — the alcoholic incurs marital trouble (or divorce), job trouble, legal trouble (e.g. DUI), but they are addicted to intoxicating themselves so life spirals down the toilet until they can get into some type of program of sobriety.

My point is, what we’re doing here — EVEN me who spends $13 at the grocery store to buy more tomatoes than a person really “needs” — is definitely not a pattern of “Our world is crashing down around us, but we cannot seem to escape the destructive addiction to eating this way.”

(Isn’t that hilarious when you look at it that way?)

In fact, the standard of eating disorder really DOES describe an addiction to stuffing oneself (the reason many people start a plant-based diet), more than it would ever describe a plant-based diet itself. Get this:

- Many people (with and without extreme weight problems) feel addicted to stuffing themselves
- They feel trapped in behaviors related to inflicting food overages on themselves — they swear they want out but feel they cannot escape the destructive addictio to eating this way.
- The person incurs inflammation, low energy levels, discomfort in their own body, disturbed sleep, compromised fitness — but they are addicting to stuffing themselves, so life spirals down the toilet until they can get themselves into some type of plan of caloric equilibrium (rather than constant calorie overage).

So really, our society is riddled with people who have an addiction to stuffing themselves, and can see that it is harming them, but feel trapped in behavior patterns of “stuffing”. Yes, there is a minority in our society who is addicted to starving themselves, but that minority does not include you or me or Caldwell Esselstyn.

So much of this addictive way of eating...one which many obese people are spiraled into...is reversible. Either by making it fun by using a slab of iceberg lettuce as a rasher for our serving of food (thus making it much more doable to follow this whole McDougall thing) or by somehow being self-disciplined enough to forego between meal snacking and seconds. IOW, allowing one's stomach to empty out between meals, and not overstuffing DURING meals. I know it worked for me, granting me food sanity that I've never experienced, when I adopted the discipline of "No S'ing" ...it really is a good thing to "Save your appetite for dinner".

As for those who look upon "us" and say "You'll make yourself sick" ... well, I've seen people who balk at working on weight loss because they don't want those horrible flaps of skin...IOW, having 250 lbs (or more) of TOO MUCH FAT on your body is preferable to taking it off and dealing with saggy skin? But any excuse in a storm, I guess