Is millet a grain or pseudograin

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Is millet a grain or pseudograin

Postby Dr Sues » Sat Jun 15, 2019 3:55 pm

Hi, just nosing around for gluten free grains. I know quinoa is labeled a “ pseudograin “ but I see conflicting thoughts about millet. Paleo folks seem to list it as a pseudograin, but other (more objective?) places call it a grain. Anyone know?
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Re: Is millet a grain or pseudograin

Postby sirdle » Sat Jun 15, 2019 10:42 pm

Dr Sues wrote:Hi, just nosing around for gluten free grains. I know quinoa is labeled a “ pseudograin “ but I see conflicting thoughts about millet. Paleo folks seem to list it as a pseudograin, but other (more objective?) places call it a grain. Anyone know?

I don't know if it is a grain or not, but according to The China Study Solution by Thomas Campbell, MD, wheat, barley and rye should be avoided by people with celiac disease. Small amounts of oats may be okay for some people. These four are on a common genetic branch when looking at a 'family tree' of 'grains'.

Foods which are okay include: rice, corn, millet, sorghum, and teff.

Not exactly what you were asking, but I hope it helps.

Cheers, :-P
"Before Enlightenment chop wood, carry water. After Enlightenment chop wood, carry water." -- Zen proverb
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Re: Is millet a grain or pseudograin

Postby vegman » Sun Jun 16, 2019 6:54 pm

I am not aware of any practical difference for consumers between grains and pseudograins, and both are normally regarded as "grains."

Here is a list of whole grains/pseudograins, with the latter identified as such. Millet is apparently a true grain.

https://wholegrainscouncil.org/whole-grains-101/whole-grains-z

I avoid gluten, and recently decided to avoid rice and wild rice due to arsenic (although since it's in vegetables, too, I don't know how significant this is). I have never liked millet and have long liked buckwheat. I've recently started appreciating quinoa more. Some, but not all, gluten-free oats work for me. I recently tried teff and amaranth, and like them both.

I like sweet corn. Dried corn needs to be ground up, which is not MWL-compliant, so I'm not using it.
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Re: Is millet a grain or pseudograin

Postby Daydream » Mon Jun 17, 2019 7:38 am

vegman wrote:I avoid gluten, and recently decided to avoid rice and wild rice due to arsenic


It's my understanding that wild rice contains NO arsenic so you can enjoy wild rice if you like it.
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Re: Is millet a grain or pseudograin

Postby vegman » Tue Jun 18, 2019 1:22 am

According to FDA testing, wild rice contains about as much arsenic as true rice.

https://www.fda.gov/media/86074/download
Last edited by vegman on Tue Jun 18, 2019 3:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Is millet a grain or pseudograin

Postby Daydream » Tue Jun 18, 2019 7:27 am

vegman wrote:According to FDA testing, wild rice contains about as much arsenic as true rice.

https://www.fda.gov/media/86074/download


Oops! I stand corrected. Other websites have said that wild rice has no arsenic but that must be inaccurate.
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Re: Is millet a grain or pseudograin

Postby vegman » Tue Jul 02, 2019 7:37 am

From https://wholegrainscouncil.org/whole-grains-101/grain-month-calendar/amaranth-may-grain-month

In all fairness to whole grains everywhere, we need to “out” amaranth as a bit of an imposter. It isn’t a true cereal grain in the sense that oats, wheat, sorghum, and most other grains are. “True cereals” all stem from the Poaceae family of plants, while amaranth (among others) is often referred to as a pseudo-cereal, meaning it belongs to a different plant species. So why are these interlopers almost always included in the whole grain roundup? Because their overall nutrient profile is similar to that of cereals, and more importantly, pseudocereals like amaranth have been utilized in traditional diets spanning thousands of years in much the same way as the “true cereals” have been.
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Re: Is millet a grain or pseudograin

Postby JeffN » Tue Jul 02, 2019 7:49 am

Daydream wrote:
vegman wrote:According to FDA testing, wild rice contains about as much arsenic as true rice.

https://www.fda.gov/media/86074/download


Oops! I stand corrected. Other websites have said that wild rice has no arsenic but that must be inaccurate.


All plants will have arsenic.

this quote is from John M. Duxbury, PhD, a professor of soil science and international agriculture at Cornell University in Ithaca, N.Y

“All plants pick up arsenic. Concentrations in leaves of plants are much higher than in grains of plants. Thus, leafy vegetables can contain higher levels of arsenic than rice, especially when they are grown on arsenic-contaminated soils. But because we eat a much lower volume of leafy greens compared to other kinds of foods, arsenic intake from this source is also low."

Now, this may be true for most Americans who barely eat any vegetables or greens (leaves). But what about us, who probably surpass the amount of vegetables most American eat in a week, each day (or meal).

In Health
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Re: Is millet a grain or pseudograin

Postby vegman » Tue Jul 02, 2019 8:18 am

Has the amount of arsenic in vegetables been quantified, or differentiated among type of vegetable and growing conditions?

Testing shows it's much higher in rice than in other grains.

Depending upon the amount in vegetables, avoiding rice may or may not significantly lower the total amount of arsenic in one's diet.


JeffN wrote:
Daydream wrote:
vegman wrote:According to FDA testing, wild rice contains about as much arsenic as true rice.

https://www.fda.gov/media/86074/download


Oops! I stand corrected. Other websites have said that wild rice has no arsenic but that must be inaccurate.


All plants will have arsenic.

this quote is from John M. Duxbury, PhD, a professor of soil science and international agriculture at Cornell University in Ithaca, N.Y

“All plants pick up arsenic. Concentrations in leaves of plants are much higher than in grains of plants. Thus, leafy vegetables can contain higher levels of arsenic than rice, especially when they are grown on arsenic-contaminated soils. But because we eat a much lower volume of leafy greens compared to other kinds of foods, arsenic intake from this source is also low."

Now, this may be true for most Americans who barely eat any vegetables or greens (leaves). But what about us, who probably surpass the amount of vegetables most American eat in a week, each day (or meal).

In Health
Jeff
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Re: Is millet a grain or pseudograin

Postby MikeyG » Tue Jul 02, 2019 8:40 pm

Cochrane is currently investigating if folic acid supplementation can help ameliorate the health effects of arsenic exposure, as they cite some studies suggesting folate is helpful:
https://www.cochranelibrary.com/cdsr/do ... 12649/full

As the dietary guidelines recommended by the McDougall program typically involve significant intakes of folate, it would seem that those following our recommendations, even while consuming minimally-processed plant foods containing higher levels of arsenic (like brown rice or leafy vegetables) might be more protected than most.

I hope that helps.

Thanks to Jeff and Dr. McDougall for consistently weighing in and helping to guide us, and thanks to the rest of the community for all their support, too :)

I hope that you're all having an excellent day.
Last edited by MikeyG on Tue Jul 02, 2019 8:55 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Is millet a grain or pseudograin

Postby MikeyG » Tue Jul 02, 2019 8:44 pm

[quote="vegman"] Has the amount of arsenic in vegetables been quantified, or differentiated among type of vegetable and growing conditions?

Testing shows it's much higher in rice than in other grains.

Depending upon the amount in vegetables, avoiding rice may or may not significantly lower the total amount of arsenic in one's diet.

[/quote="vegman"]

***

In terms of arsenic in vegetables based on growing conditions, here's one study:

"As expected for a soil with high total As (see Table 1), the leafy greens grown on the orchard soil contained high As (as high as 10 mg/kg), whereas the low-As urban soil produced greens with As well below 1 mg/kg (Figure 2). Similar to the case for Pb uptake, the soil treatments had no statistically significant effect in either decreasing or increasing As in the greens. However, unlike Pb, the As concentrations in the leafy greens showed no tendency to correlate with tissue Al. The As PUFs for leafy greens, in the range of 0.03- 0.05, were much higher than those for Pb."
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4753078/
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Re: Is millet a grain or pseudograin

Postby MikeyG » Tue Jul 02, 2019 8:55 pm

MikeyG wrote:In terms of arsenic in vegetables based on growing conditions, here's one study:

"As expected for a soil with high total As (see Table 1), the leafy greens grown on the orchard soil contained high As (as high as 10 mg/kg), whereas the low-As urban soil produced greens with As well below 1 mg/kg (Figure 2). Similar to the case for Pb uptake, the soil treatments had no statistically significant effect in either decreasing or increasing As in the greens. However, unlike Pb, the As concentrations in the leafy greens showed no tendency to correlate with tissue Al. The As PUFs for leafy greens, in the range of 0.03- 0.05, were much higher than those for Pb."
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4753078/


More from that same author, Murray McBride (https://scs.cals.cornell.edu/people/murray-mcbride/):

Arsenic and Lead Uptake by Vegetable Crops Grown on an Old Orchard Site Amended with Compost
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4755492/

Arsenic and Lead Uptake by Vegetable Crops Grown on Historically Contaminated Orchard Soils
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4776765/

I hope that helps.
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Re: Is millet a grain or pseudograin

Postby vegman » Tue Jul 02, 2019 9:56 pm

Thank you, MikeyG.

It's unfortunate that this issue has not received the kind of attention that arsenic in rice has. Perhaps that will change.

It is difficult for consumers to know how to deal with this. We usually don't know anything about the level of contaminants in soils plants we eat are grown in. We know that leaves take up more arsenic than other parts of plants, but we don't know anything about differences among various leafy greens.

Vegetables grown indoors on artificial media, which I understand is pretty common, are potentially relatively free from contamination by arsenic and other toxic metals.
Last edited by vegman on Wed Jul 03, 2019 8:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Is millet a grain or pseudograin

Postby f00die » Tue Jul 02, 2019 11:41 pm

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Re: Is millet a grain or pseudograin

Postby Doug_ » Sat Jul 27, 2019 5:20 pm

JeffN wrote:Now, this may be true for most Americans who barely eat any vegetables or greens (leaves). But what about us, who probably surpass the amount of vegetables most American eat in a week, each day (or meal).


My reaction to this is that the arsenic from most rice becomes unimportant in the scheme of things. Granted, a decent proportion of the arsenic probably can't be removed from the leafy greens as easily as from the rice by boiling in water. Or maybe it can.

Maybe it's not worth the time to reduce arsenic from rice in the first place, since it's just one of many significant arsenic sources.
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