Retinol deficiency? BCMO1 gene issues?

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Retinol deficiency? BCMO1 gene issues?

Postby healthyvegan » Thu Jan 17, 2019 1:04 am

Jeff, have you ever come across someone with inadequate beta carotene to retinol conversion? I can only find slight mention online & also wondering if Cranberry juice has retinol or is it limited to animals only? My search results are fuzzy on the topic.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl ... po=8.13953 this article covers the conversion in depth and the phenotype of the poor converter
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Re: Retinol deficiency? BCMO1 gene issues?

Postby JeffN » Thu Jan 17, 2019 8:21 am

healthyvegan wrote:Jeff, have you ever come across someone with inadequate beta carotene to retinol conversion?


No.

There are other genetic issues, such as the methylene tetrahydrofolate reductase (MTHFR), which I have seen several times.

In regard to beta-carotene conversion, as with many things, there are some variations in the conversion rate for beta-carotene but I have never seen a client who can't convert enough beta-carotene to meet their needs..

healthyvegan wrote: I can only find slight mention online & also wondering if Cranberry juice has retinol or is it limited to animals only?


As far as I know, it is only found in animal foods.

I am curious as to why you ask

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Re: Retinol deficiency? BCMO1 gene issues?

Postby healthyvegan » Fri Jan 18, 2019 1:26 am

I have a vegan who shared their BCO1 diagnosis with me in hopes it could help others identify the issue & I had a bit of a learning curve on the retinol RE/RAE labeling searching for a plant source.

Here is more on the gene defect https://academic.oup.com/jn/article/137/11/2346/4664482 A popular vegan youtube couple has just left veganism/plant based eating due to a condition(s) that was only remedied by the introduction of eggs and fish (600k views as of this evening). I happen to know them quite well and can't fathom how eggs and fish would have cleared up acne & digestive issues, it brings up a whole set of "what do animal products have that plants don't (retinol) & what do plants have (fiber for example) that animal products don't." Or was their whole "medical issues" departure some red herring... It brought me back to this BCO1 as a possibly logical explanation. I know you don't comment on individuals, so just trying to understand generally if cases exist outside of eating disorders and failure to supplement B12 where strict plant based eating could fail someone's health?
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Re: Retinol deficiency? BCMO1 gene issues?

Postby JeffN » Fri Jan 18, 2019 6:33 am

“It’s the same old story and I know it’s been told..”

I don’t know the story details and couldnt comment nor would I without a detailed review of the case including...

- what condition
- How was it diagnosed
- who diagnosed it
- what’s the reliability of the tests used to diagnose
- how was the diagnosis confirmed
- Did they see and work with a credible health care professional?

And on and on..

Even if it was a BCO1 issue, it usually only limits the ability to convert.

Are you concerned they can’t be vegan or obtain optimal health?


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Re: Retinol deficiency? BCMO1 gene issues?

Postby healthyvegan » Fri Jan 18, 2019 3:50 pm

I'm just concerned that there may be a genetic or physiological issue were a plant based diet might not be optimal for a rare person & what possible explainable way could eggs & fish correct it and at the end of my rope all I could come up with is retinol, so agree with everything else you wrote:

- what condition
- How was it diagnosed
- who diagnosed it
- what’s the reliability of the tests used to diagnose
- how was the diagnosis confirmed
- Did they see and work with a credible health care professional?

Some ND/probably bogus testing from what they share.
Here is the video that has a large portion of vegan social media community in a panic. (endless video responses so far with everyone's speculations...) I am trying to approach it as if they are telling the truth, but my hopes there is fading as I fail to uncover how eating eggs and fish could cure acne that antibiotics could not.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZI1Be8C37-k
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Re: SIBO

Postby healthyvegan » Mon Jan 28, 2019 2:08 pm

this is the same topic (couple) as my earlier post on BCO1. What had happened is that one of the vegans had gotten to an extremely low weight doing the elimination diet & their ND or MD got them to eat fish, eggs and chicken & their issues went away almost instantly. The video is at nearly 1 million views and the response videos from Plantbased News (Gojiman) and others all have 250k+ views each. Some are blaming Starch Solution -> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8omh1dxQmtA (she is a pretty good skeptic, but hates Neal Barnard/Dr. McDougall because Ginny Messina I believe is her expert)

So like Verde here we are all speculating on what the heck could be going on. Of course we know the #1 reason people leave veganism is health issues from that Harris Poll.

Anyway, high drama and I know you can't comment or want to be drawn into this sh*t show. We are just trying to make heads or tails of it from every angle.
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Re: SIBO

Postby JeffN » Mon Jan 28, 2019 2:31 pm

healthyvegan wrote:Anyway, high drama and I know you can't comment or want to be drawn into this sh*t show.


Nor do I understand how anyone who wants to bring professionalism and integrity to our message would. Instead, being drawn in gives false credibility to the sh*t show by responding to it.

healthyvegan wrote: We are just trying to make heads or tails of it from every angle.


Why?

As I said in your post, unless they are willing to undergo a credible evaluation from a credible health care professional with careful and detailed exams, records, etc. its just hearsay and anecdotes which are meaningless till validated and subsequently properly tested and evaluated.

Sadly, they only want hits and clicks to try and make a living and get fame and fortune and sh*t-shows drive hits and clicks.

Its like Jack-Ass applied to health/nutrition.

Many years back, a website was put up exposing many of the frauds, liars, and BS in the raw food and raw vegan movement.

http://www.beyondveg.com/billings-t/spe ... urus.shtml

For all those efforts, it didn't end it, nor will making another youtube video exposing them.

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Re: Retinol deficiency? BCMO1 gene issues?

Postby healthyvegan » Mon Feb 11, 2019 4:27 pm

I think the professionalism comes in to respond to the general question of when 100% plant based diets can fail.

We have Dr Klaper weighing in on it and coming up with preformed amino acid dependency????
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8YlCOCEUsk

We have Dr Garth Davis weight in on it
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=myaQuMYwWg0

We have Dr Furhman now weighing in on it and taking shots at diets that exclude nuts & Jeff Nelson today. (complete lack of professionalism!)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gnw72D6MCzk

I use BeyondVeg.com all the time with people who are in the throws of appeals to nature, eating disorders, etc its a great resource and I wish it was kept up to date, but I am sure they all got a life!

They considered the retinol issue, as well. http://www.beyondveg.com/billings-t/com ... t-7f.shtml I don't think at the time they knew about the BCO1 gene defect. Even if I were able to persuade the subjects of this to get a gene test and it was confirmed via blood/gene I doubt they'd go back, but would be great to stop this 'guesscapade' The Diet Wars continue...
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