Dr. McDougall's Online Discussion Board

Jeff, For the past several months, I've been reading lots about low-fat, plant-based nutrition (i.e., McDougall, Campbell, N. Barnard, etc.) Recently, I heard of the Weston Price group and their position. I decided to look into it and came across a critique of vegitarianism by Stephen Byrnes. It's remarkable in the extent to which he seems to diametrically oppose , not just McDougall/Campbell recomendations, but lots of the expert opinion that's been around for many years now. Here's an example, "it is usually claimed that a diet rich in plant foods like whole grains and legumes will reduce one's risks for cancer, but research going back to the last century demonstrates that carbohydrate-based diets are the prime dietary instigators of cancer, not diets based on minimally processed animal foods." Another, "...it is commonly believed that saturated fats and dietary cholesterol "clog arteries" and cause heart disease, such ideas have been show to be false by such scientists as LInus Pauling, Russell Smith, George Mann..." etc., etc.
Do you know anything about this guy? Does he have any credibility?
Incidentally, I've been enjoying your posts and, one other thing, what are the NAV's? Don

Hi Don
As it turns out Stephen Byrnes died of a stroke at 45. Wonder why..

Anyway here are some really good articles about WAPF off vegsource by Dr Fuhrman

http://www.vegsource.com/articles2/fuhr ... bolics.htm
http://www.vegsource.com/articles2/fuhr ... _myths.htm
http://www.vegsource.com/articles2/fuhr ... iction.htm
http://www.vegsource.com/articles2/fuhr ... mitive.htm

Steven Byrnes died suddenly making all his claims null and void in my opinion.

Don J. Brix wrote:Jeff, For the past several months, I've been reading lots about low-fat, plant-based nutrition (i.e., McDougall, Campbell, N. Barnard, etc.) Recently, I heard of the Weston Price group and their position. I decided to look into it and came across a critique of vegitarianism by Stephen Byrnes. It's remarkable in the extent to which he seems to diametrically oppose , not just McDougall/Campbell recomendations, but lots of the expert opinion that's been around for many years now. Here's an example, "it is usually claimed that a diet rich in plant foods like whole grains and legumes will reduce one's risks for cancer, but research going back to the last century demonstrates that carbohydrate-based diets are the prime dietary instigators of cancer, not diets based on minimally processed animal foods." Another, "...it is commonly believed that saturated fats and dietary cholesterol "clog arteries" and cause heart disease, such ideas have been show to be false by such scientists as LInus Pauling, Russell Smith, George Mann..." etc., etc.
Do you know anything about this guy? Does he have any credibility?
Incidentally, I've been enjoying your posts and, one other thing, what are the NAV's? Don

Hi Don,

Weston Price was a dentist who went around the world studying native diets and their effects on health. From it, he learned alot about the benefit of eating a whole food natural diet. His book, Nutrition and Physical Degenration, is a classic, for its time.

However, these days, Sally Fallon and Mary Enig have hijacked the name, and his work and have turned it into an org that promotes high saturated fat, high fat, high cholesterol diets. Butter is a health food , etc etc.

Dr Stephen Byrne, one of their medical leaders, died of a stroke at the age of 41.

I would recommend people to stay away from it. They misrepresent and twist data and information. There is no real evidence supporting their theories.

It is sad.

You can read another excellent critique of their organization here..

http://www.vegsource.com/articles2/fuhr ... _myths.htm

In Health
Jeff Novick, MS, RD

Adrienne we both posted at the same time.

Adrienne, Susie, Jeff, ROFL. Thanks for putting this outfit into perspective for me. Good eatin', Don

I'd LOVE to know where they get their funding!

I tried to educate a few people and I got this response:

You are unaware of biochemistry and are only repeating what MDs = Dieticians are mindlessly repeating.

2 related problems based on the low fat babble.

1. ADHD - brains are made of mostly fat. "Officials" have told parents to decrease saturated fat starting at about 2 years old.
Why is this such a common problem now and not when I was a child in the 1950's and early 1960's ?

boardn10 wrote:I'd LOVE to know where they get their funding!

I tried to educate a few people and I got this response:

You are unaware of biochemistry and are only repeating what MDs = Dieticians are mindlessly repeating.

2 related problems based on the low fat babble.

1. ADHD - brains are made of mostly fat. "Officials" have told parents to decrease saturated fat starting at about 2 years old.
Why is this such a common problem now and not when I was a child in the 1950's and early 1960's ?

So much misinformation... sadly no one is really looking at how much all the chemicals we now consume in our food are affecting us and our children.

back in the 50'as and 60's you ate home cooked food that was fresh and wholsome... really... go read a few packages of what most people eat and you will find that just in the packged food alone there are at least 5 or 6 chemicals then add to that all the pesticides we use.. you can not tell me that the combinatoin of chemical soup we feed ourselves everyday is not affecting us.

While I don't support Stephen Byrnes views, I think it's only fair to note that he also had AIDS which might have contributed to his stroke (although I certainly don't know for sure).

The last available data I could find was a study in 1996 which found no link between HIV and stroke. It did say further studies might help. It seems as though there is little or no link.
f1jim

f1jim wrote:The last available data I could find was a study in 1996 which found no link between HIV and stroke. It did say further studies might help. It seems as though there is little or no link.
f1jim

Again, I am not supporting his work but from I have read, he was a very sick man (with AIDS). His AIDS was advanced when he was diagnosed (after pneumonia) and was on a lot of strong drugs.

It is fine to state disagreement with his nutritional views, but to say he died at age 41 because of his lifestyle is not factual because it doesn't give the big picture and takes away from the integrity of your other arguments.

We don't know if it's factual or not. Are you aware of other issues he had that would bring on the stroke? Can those issues be linked to stroke? We, of course, have no idea if he followed the advice he gave out in his writing. All we know for sure is he died with a stroke. Whatever he did nutritionally was not enough to keep away a stroke. I strongly believe that most anyone following a McDougall diet will probably not succomb to a stroke. It's very much like the controversy with Dr. Atkins. He died with heart disease and his family refused to release the autopsy report. Strange for a man whose life was built around his diet.

I consider stroke to be a lifestyle disease unless conclusively proven otherwise. I also find it very strange and disappointing that the autopsy was withheld. I hope that other strict McDougallers would allow their autopsies to be released upon death - for better or worse. That would be one of the best indicators of how an unconventional diet affected the body. And just like with Dr. Atkins, I assume that when an autopsy is withheld of a person who advocated an unconventional lifestyle, that there is something that is being covered up to protect a special interest. I would feel this way just as much for somebody who was following what I believe to be true too.