Getting lost in the minutiae

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Getting lost in the minutiae

Postby Drew_ab » Sun Mar 11, 2018 11:48 am

Hi Jeff,

In your posts, you often talk about not getting lost in the minutiae - those finer details that may not be relevant, especially for the overwhelming majority of us. I have observed you make this reference in two ways. The first would be in reference to whole food plant-based food choices. For example, I am confident that you would state that we are getting lost in the minutiae if we are deciding to choose blueberries over bananas, kale over romaine, and so forth.

You talk about food choices, getting some sensible exercise, sensible sun, having good social relationships, reducing stress, good sleep hygiene, and so forth (which account for the overwhelming majority of health - perhaps 95% of it). I'm just curious, if you were to get lost in the minutiae, what are some topics that might be of interest? The reason I ask is that I am about to hit my 7-year anniversary of a WFPB lifestyle, perhaps mildly CR'ed (BMI = 20.5-21) and I do a reasonably good job of all of the usual suspects when it comes to health and wellness.

Are there any finer details you would consider? Like the hygiene products you use? Would you get your tap water tested to make sure it isn't contaminated? Would you avoid driving during rush-hour to stay safer? You get the picture... what do you think?
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Re: Getting lost in the minutiae

Postby JeffN » Sun Mar 11, 2018 1:26 pm

Drew_ab wrote:Hi Jeff,

In your posts, you often talk about not getting lost in the minutiae - those finer details that may not be relevant, especially for the overwhelming majority of us. I have observed you make this reference in two ways. The first would be in reference to whole food plant-based food choices. For example, I am confident that you would state that we are getting lost in the minutiae if we are deciding to choose blueberries over bananas, kale over romaine, and so forth.

You talk about food choices, getting some sensible exercise, sensible sun, having good social relationships, reducing stress, good sleep hygiene, and so forth (which account for the overwhelming majority of health - perhaps 95% of it). I'm just curious, if you were to get lost in the minutiae, what are some topics that might be of interest? The reason I ask is that I am about to hit my 7-year anniversary of a WFPB lifestyle, perhaps mildly CR'ed (BMI = 20.5-21) and I do a reasonably good job of all of the usual suspects when it comes to health and wellness.

Are there any finer details you would consider? Like the hygiene products you use? Would you get your tap water tested to make sure it isn't contaminated? Would you avoid driving during rush-hour to stay safer? You get the picture... what do you think?


Good question. Yes, there are other things but for most people, especially those who post here, food is by far their biggest issue (unless they smoke).

I think if I post them here though, too many will focus on them, (as some may be easier then changing your diet) and miss the point that what you said above are the most important issues.

However, I will add 2 and they are not minutia, just other lifestyle factors like activity that I have mentioned in other threads.

1) Pure(st) Air

2) Pure(st) Water

I think I discuss some of the issue on air in the thread, The Real Dirty Dozen and some of the issue on water in a thread on water.

Maybe I will create a thread on each specifically and go into more detail. :)

In Health
Jeff
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Re: Getting lost in the minutiae

Postby JeffN » Tue Aug 04, 2020 8:46 am

After the above post, Drew_ab and I had an email conversation on the topic. With his permission, I am going to post our email conversation here now as it seems more relevant with my recent post, “Keeping Clean: A Chemical Conundrum”

viewtopic.php?f=22&t=61217

Here is our email conversations....


Hey Jeff,

I realized posted on your board about getting lost in the minutiae. It seemed like you might have more to say but that perhaps you didn’t want to take away (or distract) from the main message that the overwhelming majority of people need to hear. Which is of course “That it’s the food!” I’m just curious what other thoughts you may have on the topic.

Thanks so much!
Drew_ab



There are quite a few things people could look at but if they are smoking, not getting the food right and being active, they almost always need to put their efforts to these first, especially the food.

Other areas, as I mentioned are pure air, which means avoiding all smoke, second hand smoke and third hand smoke. As you mentioned, air pollution is an issue and we live in a small town and not near a highway or an industrial area, and purposefully avoid any potential rush hour. We have actually left the highway instead of sitting in any traffic. We give our house well ventilated and use a high grade electrostatic filter in our HVAC that we always have the fan on, which works better then the portable air filter units. There are many houseplants that also help purify the air

In regard to water, we use only purified water (either distilled or RO) for everything and have a home RO machine. We have filters on our shower heads too.

Sleep is another one. While it varies per person, I think 7-8 hours a night is very important and plan my day accordingly.

There are two others areas that I think are important.

The first in cosmetics, which can be highly toxic. Most people spend every morning in a small closed unventilated room covering themselves with these highly toxic chemicals (often spraying them). Anything we buy, which is a minimal, gets a EWG verified rating or a rating of 1 at the EWG cosmetic database. It is amazing at how many “natural” (and expensive) products are highly toxic.

Same goes for cleaning products. Most of the chemicals in peoples homes that are under the sink or in the laundry room are highly toxic and they breathe those chemicals in every day in their homes (which these deals are usually tightly sealed and not well ventilated). We mostly use baking soda, lemon, water, vinegar and soap powder for most everything or we might use something rated EWG verified or a “1”

Those are the main ones off hand. Of course, having a purpose in life, hobbies they enjoy, a supportive social circle and get enough rest and recreation are all important too.

I just dont want people worry about their soap when they are eating CRAP all day :)

When I first met my wife, she had been following the program for over 2 decades and didn’t understand why I didn’t push these other issues in my talk. She thought people deserved to know. I agreed. But explained that if they don't get the food right and then the activity, all these others won’t matter much. She said they mattered to her and I told her, that is because she has (in a way) earned the right for them to matter as she removed all the other potential toxic issues already. After spending some time going to all the events with me and seeing how little adherence there really is to the food and how distracted people get by these other issues, she now agrees with me.

There may be a few more but that is it off the top of my head :)
Jeff



Jeff,

First off - thank you so much for the detailed response. You always go above and beyond in your line of duty - clearly, you are living your purpose. I've gone down the rabbit hole this weekend on the EWG website and my gosh, it's startling how toxic many of the cosmetic/cleaning products we use are. I always have erred on the side of using as little as possible (probably 75% less than most), but clearly have some more investigating to do. I'm curious if there is one particular brand that covers most of what you need? Either for cosmetics (soap, hand cream, hair gel, etc.) and cleaning products (lately I've used a vinegar + Dawn soap combo which works well... after the smell of vinegar dissipates after a few hours).

Thanks again for all that you do!



Thanks.

Welcome to the madness. See why I don't want others distracted? They will spend all their time doing this, get stressed out and then go eat a pizza :)

I don’t know of any one brand that make it though there are currently brands working with EWG to get that status. I think the verified was a big step forward and am thankful for it. It only happened within the last year or two. They also have a useful app, which allows you to scan barcodes in a store. And, like with food labels, you do have to check back occasionally cause these companies change ingredients.

My wife and I have a saying, whenever we find a product we love (food, or household), we should buy a case, because we know if we like it (meaning it is safe, healthy, etc.), no one else will and it won’t last long on the shelf. Sadly, this has been true for so many products over the years. Her latest moisturizer and shampoo, which we just found about 7 months ago (EWG Verified), just got axed.

It is shocking to see how toxic many natural products are.

I used to say Tom’s and Aubrey had a good track record, and while in general do, that is no longer true. You really have to check individual products. Even just the fragrance they use in one variety of a same product can dramatically change the ratings.

Sometimes, the verified products may be safe but they don’t work well. Many years ago (mid 80’s), when I worked for Kraft foods, I used to have to wear a suit and tie most days and wore many white shirts. Of course, I bought one of the top rated all natural toxic free laundry cleaners. One day, getting ready for work, my daughter says, hey dad, when did you get those light yellow shirts? Over time, all my white shirts were getting a light yellow tinge and the collars were turning dark (sweat stains). So, I thought a small bottle of tide to use on my whites. Then there is price. Some of the safe stuff can be outrageously priced and I think our own personal economy is also a health/stress issue so there is always a trade off. Like you, one thing we do, is to use as little as possible. You don’t have to shampoo every day, let alone condition, or wash your clothes ever time you put something on for a few minutes. We hand wash all dishes (good exercise, and meditative practice), etc.

So, no judgement here, and we all got to make the best choice we can, and no one is perfect. But, it is an area we can focus on and try to reduce our exposure.
Jeff


It's very easy to see why people just throw their hands up in the air and eat pizza. You make a great point about buying a case of products - I'll keep this in mind as I discover products that are EWG certified or perhaps have a rating of 1.

And of course, you make great points about price, how well the products work, etc. Not related to our discussion, but over the years I've titled more heavily towards organic and this does cost a good chunk of coin, but I feel it's worth it. Not only for my personal health, but that of the environment, the workers who have to spray the fields, etc.
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